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Thread: Who will pay?

  1. #1
    lewisipso's Avatar
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    Who will pay?

    Who will pay?
    Written by Mark Nichols
    After citizens of San Diego voted overwhelmingly against raising taxes to cover deficits, the Voice of San Diego is reporting that the mayor has a great idea to balance the budget. San Diego Mayor Jerry Sanders has proposed 401(k)-style retirement accounts for most new city employees and eliminating their pensions. When voters rejected the slightest of tax increases, half of one whole cent, Sanders apparently decided to bring out the big guns in trying to eliminate the $70 million-plus San Diego deficit. But Sanders' plans to kill pensions for police officers needs voter approval.
    Making matters worse is that the proposal won't save any money for years to come should it get passed. Sanders has just two more years to solve the financial problem he was elected to fix. In order to even make a dent in the deficit the mayor will have to resort to drastic measures.
    Details of how the new 401(k) plan would work are hard to come by- a characteristic of every proposal that promises to reduce spending by balancing the budget on the backs of public employees. Sanders has said that his proposal would exempt police officers and firefighters and the only ones losing their pensions would be teachers, DPW personnel and other city workers.
    But many see the plans as a Trojan horse. Once voters approve eliminating some public employee benefits, it's only a matter of time before they're gone entirely. Conservatives say that around the country, and in San Diego specifically, voters have "finally had enough."
    As evidence they cite the failure of Proposition D which was shellacked in November by a margin of 63-37. The ballot measure would have increased the city's sales tax by a half-cent on the dollar for the next five years. The tide that swept so many conservatives into governor's mansions and the House of Representatives shows no signs of receding and from a labor perspective that can mean only one thing- concessions.
    Consider this recent blog post from a website popular among fiscal conservatives:
    "City after city is starting to address these issues. They have to. The economy finally forced it. Expect to see major concessions by public unions in big and small cities alike as taxpayers and voters everywhere have had enough. Voters are fed up with a national unemployment rate close to 10%, with 14 million unemployed, with seeing their property taxes go up, even as the value of their homes collapse, topped by public union pension guarantees the average person can only begin to dream about. It is high time mayors of cities big and small stand up for taxpayers and not for unions who contribute to their election campaigns. The inequities must stop, and they will."
    Those sentiments are likely to be reinforced without the necessary pushback from organized labor. If the folks that think public employee pensions are public enemy number one continue to dominate the debate, their odds of success increase daily.

    http://apbweb.com/featured-articles/...-will-pay.html
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  2. #2
    lewisipso's Avatar
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    Diego Mayor Jerry Sanders has proposed 401(k)-style retirement accounts for most new city employees and eliminating their pensions
    the only ones losing their pensions would be teachers, DPW personnel and other city workers.
    Shamefully this is a subject I am not and expert in but doesn't fiscal responsibility start at the top? What kind of retirement do the city government officials have?

    "City after city is starting to address these issues. They have to
    I agree. However....

    If the folks that think public employee pensions are public enemy number one continue to dominate the debate, their odds of success increase daily.
    Dominate they should not. Solutions are successes when all the information is known.
    Do not war for peace. If you must war, war for justice. For without justice there is no peace. -me

    We are who we choose to be.

    R.I.P. Arielle. 08/20/2010-09/16/2012


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    MacLean's Avatar
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    You won't see the cry to eliminate police pensions stopping soon.

    There is a large contingent of the tea party platformers who wish to replace government paid pensions with 401Ks the way private businesses have.
    I'm your huckleberry...

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    Unfortunatly those of us that have 5-10 yrs or more to retirement are going to get the shaft, the rod, and everything else. Public safety and the public will be the losers and the politicians will be the only winners. I say this because in the end they will keep their golden parachutes and big insurance policy's. Never have figured out how just being elected to an office gets you lifelong pensions and insurance, but I guess when you have the power to vote for your own benefits this is what you get.
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  5. #5
    Mark7's Avatar
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    Here's a voice of support for us that got buried

    “Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away”

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    Rachel Maddow is a voice for police?

    Are you ^$#&#*^&ing me?
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


    I was looking for a saint who was a devil of a lover,
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  7. #7
    Jenna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacLean View Post
    Rachel Maddow is a voice for police?

    Are you ^$#&#*^&ing me?
    Progressives are on the side of government employees!

  8. #8
    Xiphos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenna View Post
    Progressives are on the side of government employees!
    Progressives are on the side of government bureaucrats and elitist politicians. Leftists are decidedly anti-law enforcement (look at how LE is treated in liberal cities like Chicago.) You are out of step with mainstream progressives.
    Pleasing nobody, one person at a time.

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  9. #9
    MacLean's Avatar
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    Also, even if it causes me some grief here, what exactly is wrong with privatizing retirement accounts?

    So long as our employer makes a contribution, what makes us exempt from economic reality?

    My employer replaces our social security contributions with a 401A plan, and I am doing pretty fair with it.
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


    I was looking for a saint who was a devil of a lover,
    but every girl I found was either one way or the other...



  10. #10
    Xiphos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacLean View Post
    Also, even if it causes me some grief here, what exactly is wrong with privatizing retirement accounts?

    So long as our employer makes a contribution, what makes us exempt from economic reality?

    My employer replaces our social security contributions with a 401A plan, and I am doing pretty fair with it.
    I certainly agree that pension plans are not an entitlement. However, a defined benefit retirement plan is certainly a very nice benefit that can go a long way toward attracting well qualified applicants into a career where their earning potential is probably lower than if they stayed in the private sector. But yeah, none of us are exempt from economic reality and the nature of our job does not necessarily entitle us.
    Pleasing nobody, one person at a time.

    That which does not kill me, better start fucking running.

    If I lived every day like it was my last, the body count would be staggering.

    I intend to go in harm's way. -John Paul Jones

    Hunt the wolf, and bring light to the dark places that others fear to go. LT COL Dave Grossman

  11. #11
    MacLean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xiphos View Post
    I certainly agree that pension plans are not an entitlement. However, a defined benefit retirement plan is certainly a very nice benefit that can go a long way toward attracting well qualified applicants into a career where their earning potential is probably lower than if they stayed in the private sector. But yeah, none of us are exempt from economic reality and the nature of our job does not necessarily entitle us.
    Agreed.
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


    I was looking for a saint who was a devil of a lover,
    but every girl I found was either one way or the other...



  12. #12
    Jenna's Avatar
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    Defined benefit plans are much more predictable, and thus provide greater security, than stocks/bonds/money markets (which are more like playing the lottery). LEOs need secure retirements even more than others because LEO careers are shorter than average due to the higher physical, psychological, and legal risks of law enforcement, and may end unexpectedly well before LEOs plan or want to end their careers.

  13. #13
    MacLean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenna View Post
    Defined benefit plans are much more predictable, and thus provide greater security, than stocks/bonds/money markets (which are more like playing the lottery). LEOs need secure retirements even more than others because LEO careers are shorter than average due to the higher physical, psychological, and legal risks of law enforcement, and may end unexpectedly well before LEOs plan or want to end their careers.
    Defined benefit plans may indeed have some advantages, but you can also make up for physical risks that require early retirement with employer paid insurance policies.

    The entire health care debate could have been short circuited by HSAs that created competition between service providers and incentives to not run to the doctor for every cold.
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


    I was looking for a saint who was a devil of a lover,
    but every girl I found was either one way or the other...



  14. #14
    Jenna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacLean View Post
    Defined benefit plans may indeed have some advantages, but you can also make up for physical risks that require early retirement with employer paid insurance policies.

    Insurance policies can deny early retirement by saying that a LEO's problems are not severe enough, or not covered under the policy. Insurance policies are also helpful, but defined benefit plans provide an important safety net.

  15. #15
    Mark7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacLean View Post
    Rachel Maddow is a voice for police?

    Are you ^$#&#*^&ing me?
    It makes some decent points there
    “Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away”

  16. #16
    MacLean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenna View Post
    Insurance policies can deny early retirement by saying that a LEO's problems are not severe enough, or not covered under the policy. Insurance policies are also helpful, but defined benefit plans provide an important safety net.
    Almost all of the issues you describe are handled by insurance, here.

    Works great, BTW.

    As opposed to the State's defined benefit plan, which routinely screws officers just as you described.
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


    I was looking for a saint who was a devil of a lover,
    but every girl I found was either one way or the other...



  17. #17
    dadyswat's Avatar
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    Yea, we have a defined benefit plan and they change it when they want. Last time thye updated it the retirees go zapped on medical and they're reviewing it again. The pension I get don't leave much after taxes and medical.

 

 

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