question

**BEK** · 12-01-06, 01:08 AM

Does the Law-abiding citizen have more to fear from attackers, robbers, rapists, burglars, or other malafactors than they do of encroachments of their civil liberties by police in the form of unreasonable arrests, search and seizures.

Source: (Police Authority in a Free Society, O. W. Wilson
Journal of Criminal Law, Criminology, and Police Science, Vol. 54, No. 2 (Jun., 1963), pp. 175-177)

**Coloradocop** · 12-01-06, 01:44 AM

You must have been talking to Ian lately... you were, weren't you?

I'd say the criminals are absolutely more troublesome in today's world. We aren't a police state at this point, and I don't see us becoming one... I don't search soccer moms and the like when I contact them, and probably wouldn't even do so to most of Ian's crew. But, too many variables (and/or assumptions) here to answer this question clearly (ie: where does the citizen live, why were we in contact with them, are we assuming this is an unreasonable search and seizure under todays laws - or that the government is becoming overbearing and enacting unreasonable laws, thus leading to more searches).

**TXCharlie** · 12-01-06, 01:48 AM

Originally Posted by Coloradocop

I'd say the criminals are absolutely more troublesome in today's world.

How can you say that? All the criminals want to do is deprive us of our life & belongings - You want to deprive us of our weed!!!

**2209** · 12-01-06, 01:50 AM

Even when the spew their "I hate the police" rhetoric, they still dial 911 when their neighbors dog pisses in their yard.

They will say it isn't true, but they know it is.

**Ducky** · 12-01-06, 02:46 AM

I get hasssled by the man because of my ink!

Really, the only thing I have to fear from cops is getting hugged too hard. Somehow I don't think I've got the same problem from the others you mentioned.

And yes, I'm law-abiding.

Opps, answered in Ask-A-Cop again, didn't I? Bad, BAD Ducky!

**FTL_Ian** · 12-01-06, 03:44 AM

Hard to say. Without the War on Drugs, there would be less violent crime as well as less encroachments of civil liberties!

**BEK** · 12-01-06, 03:45 AM

Prove it.... BTW this was written in 1963 prior TWOD

**FTL_Ian** · 12-01-06, 03:50 AM

Originally Posted by BEK320

Prove it.... BTW this was written in 1963 prior TWOD

I'll be inviting the LEAP folks over this way soon. I'll leave that to them. They will have instant credibility here, as they too are Verified LEOs.

**BEK** · 12-01-06, 03:55 AM

Last time I checked of all their members only a small handful are LEO's but go ahead

**OFK** · 12-01-06, 04:06 AM

Originally Posted by BEK320

Last time I checked of all their members only a small handful are LEO's but go ahead

It only takes one or two for them to lauch a crusade as if they have an army. That's why you see the same things repeated over and over and over. The same one single little "study" that has been recycled into a dozen or so.

**FTL_Ian** · 12-01-06, 04:33 AM

Originally Posted by BEK320

Last time I checked of all their members only a small handful are LEO's

You must not have done much checking. Here are just their speakers: http://leap.cc/Speakers/

LEAP does outreach at police conventions and get a very positive response from LEOs.

**TheOldRhino** · 12-01-06, 04:48 AM

Originally Posted by BEK320

Last time I checked of all their members only a small handful are LEO's but go ahead

Is 5,000 a small handful? Granted, it's only a small percentage of cops out there- but considering LEAP has only been around about 10 years, I'd say that's pretty good.

I can only speak from personal experience- in my suburban town in Metro Atlanta that I work. I would say most of the citizens have to worry about the criminal element more.

As far as 1963 and TWoD goes- technically that kind of thing has been going on since 1914 with the Harrison Drug Reform act. Back then even having marijuana was a felony.

**CountyFourteen** · 12-01-06, 06:22 AM

I think they have to worry about "the man" taking their weed ........ I mean I listened to a rap song the other day......"if the feds only knew" and it said we "steal all the dope" so it must be true........

**CountyFourteen** · 12-01-06, 06:23 AM

hmmmmm if you didn't guess it.....or the weed has gotten into your eyes as well.......that was a joke.

**TXCharlie** · 12-01-06, 09:34 AM

You know, if it's true that dopers would fight a "War for Drugs" and risk prison just to get their smokes, then the next roadblock they run into won't mean anything either - I'm speaking of family members, bosses, etc, who don't want them using.

How many spouses are killed each year by dope heads and drunks who get mad at them for throwing out their stash? I don't have any statistics, but I'm sure it's more than a few - And it's not about the cost of drugs, because it happens with alcohol too.

So make it legal and multiply the number by 100x. Yeah, real smart.

**Piggybank Cop** · 12-01-06, 09:52 AM

"Does the Law-abiding citizen have more to fear from attackers, robbers, rapists, burglars, or other malafactors than they do of encroachments of their civil liberties by police in the form of unreasonable arrests, search and seizures."

Yes.

**bayern** · 12-01-06, 11:29 AM

+Interesting thread. Ian and his crowd decry the Police and their job. Arresting someone for a little bit of pot, etc. Well, the line has to be drawn somewhere. The Governing bodies make the laws and regulatlions for the good of Society. It you don't like it, petition the governing body to change it. Now, once the system is changed don't bitch because your neighbor is high on pot and crashes into your house, wife's rose garden or kids bike. You asked for it, now you got it. Todays liberals want to change every thing to THEIR way. When you get into the decision making position, others will bitch about the way the Police do things according to the things you all changed. When you get in charge and things go down hill and the radicals take over, and they will, your throat will be the first they cut. And where will the Police be?? Probably dead, died trying to clean up the mess you created.

**I_Pack** · 12-01-06, 12:14 PM

Does the Law-abiding citizen have more to fear from attackers, robbers, rapists, burglars, or other malafactors than they do of encroachments of their civil liberties by police in the form of unreasonable arrests, search and seizures.

This is a loaded question, the question starts off with "law abiding citizens", no citizens abide every law, its friggin impossible there are too many of them. I am not a law abiding citizen but I'll answer the posed question none-the-less.

Considering that I pack(legally) or am armed with a blade almost everywhere I go, and am an occassional drug user. I fear the cops.

**BigDawg** · 12-01-06, 12:28 PM

Well since it says UNREASONABLE arrests, searches, and seizures then the answer is no they don't.

**Doc_Holliday** · 12-01-06, 12:29 PM

you dont fear the cops I pack...you fear punishment for your crimes in any form......you just fixate on LEO's as if they are actively picking on you....not realizing it is your own behavior causing your "fear"