Guardian Angels

**Daynathepayna** · 01-21-06, 01:44 PM

http://www.guardianangels.org/programs_edu.php
What do you think of the Guardian angels? Do they work well with cops or are they a nuisance? Would you welcome them to your city or chase them off? Apparently they have cleaned up New York a lot in the 25 years that they have operated there.

**Retdetsgt** · 01-21-06, 08:16 PM

They were a pain in the ass when they started up here in Portland. It was just a bunch of thugs looking for an excuse to thump somebody. Vigilante groups are always dangerous because they make up their own rules.

**Terminator** · 01-21-06, 08:28 PM

Originally Posted by Daynathepayna

http://www.guardianangels.org/programs_edu.php
What do you think of the Guardian angels? Do they work well with cops or are they a nuisance? Would you welcome them to your city or chase them off? Apparently they have cleaned up New York a lot in the 25 years that they have operated there.

From what I've seen, I would think they would be just as much of a nuisance, if anything.

**Garda** · 01-22-06, 01:08 AM

According to their own website stopping a pickpocket was the highlights of 15 years working NYC so they dont appear to do much. Reserve/volunteer cops would be a better use of these people in my opinion so they could really patrol neighbourhoods and subways, etc.

**Iron Man** · 01-22-06, 04:44 PM

Seems to be a bunch of wanna-be cops. Sounds like they would be a be a pain in the ass.

**TXCharlie** · 01-23-06, 12:06 AM

Would you give them the benifit of the doubt to hear what Bob Weir thinks of them? Bob runs a little newspaper near where I live (see below), but he's a retired NYPD Det. Sgt.

He wrote this when the Guardian Angles came to Dallas. The Mayor's rude greeting of them was shameful, but the Police Chief took a "wait & see" attitude. I haven't heard a status report since, but I imagine it's very difficult to recruit people to patrol unarmed at night - Perhaps they'd get more quality volunteers if they were armed at least with Tasers or Pepper Spray, minimum - You know what I think of that. And perhaps the vigilante risk would be lessened if the police provided more direction and guidance instead of wanting them to fail (in some cases).
============================== ============================== ========
Guardian Angels in America's murder capital
http://www.americanthinker.com/artic...rticle_id=4279

Bob Weir, former NYPD Det. Sgt.
February 26th, 2005

"When I pulled my car into a parking space at Dallas City Hall, I looked over to my left, and there was the man in the red jacket and matching beret ... I had a 4 PM meeting with the leader of the legendary crime fighting group that has become an adjunct to the justice system in America....

He had just emerged from a meeting with Mayor Laura Miller, who, he told me later, was very negative about his presence in “her” city....

Fed up with the virulent crime that had become pandemic in the [South Bronx], he organized residents, trained them to assist the police in dealing with street crime, and soon became a national symbol for victims who wanted to take back their neighborhoods. When Rudolph Giuliani became mayor, he directed officers to cooperate with the group, and crime in the Big Apple plummeted...

...I had an hour long interview with someone I’ve admired for a long time. When I was a cop with NYPD, I was always gratified to have concerned community members work closely with me and my fellow officers, allowing us to solve crimes we might otherwise have been unable to close...

The time I spent with this man was a privilege for me because I view him as an extraordinary example of courage and determination. I have some experience with crime, and the vicious people who engage in it. When I was out there on those cold, dark streets, I had more than one gun accompanying me. These guys have nothing more than a walkie-talkie radio and a lot of guts....

...If Dallas’s mayor can’t see the value in this group of motivated guardians of the public safety, the residents should question her political motives as well as her sense of responsibility to a city filled with potential homicide victims."

Bob Weir is a former detective sergeant in the New York City Police Department. He is the editor of The News Connection in Highland Village, Texas.

Bob Weir
http://www.thenewsconnection.com

**Retdetsgt** · 01-23-06, 01:46 AM

Originally Posted by TXCharlie

Would you give them the benifit of the doubt to hear what Bob Weir thinks of them? Bob runs a little newspaper near where I live (see below), but he's a retired NYPD Det. Sgt.

I don't care if he's the King of Prussia. Our experience was they are more of a pain than they are helpful. We ended up arrested several of them for assault.

Again, anytime you have people playing vigilante, you have a recipe for real problems.

Citizens observing and calling in are one thing, but these idiots always get carried away.

**Terminator** · 01-23-06, 01:51 AM

Originally Posted by Retdetsgt

I don't care if he's the King of Prussia. Our experience was they are more of a pain than they are helpful. We ended up arrested several of them for assault.

Again, anytime you have people playing vigilante, you have a recipe for real problems.

Citizens observing and calling in are one thing, but these idiots always get carried away.

Exactly...they aren't trained, and don't know how to approach or handle situations or people.

If they just called in things to the police, then I would be ok with it.

**TXCharlie** · 01-23-06, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by Terminator

If they just called in things to the police, then I would be ok with it.

Good point... The Guardian Angels do make Citizen's Arrests, which I believe are legal if they use reasonable force and actually witness felonies and crimes against the peace themselves, or act in someone's defense (in Texas anyway), isn't that so? But I get your point, they probably need a lot more training than they get, not only to win fights but to avoid them and not step over their legal bounds. So are the police acadamies willing to train them properly?

Originally Posted by Garda30055A

Reserve/volunteer cops would be a better use of these people in my opinion

Speaking of Reserves, why isn't there more of them? Does anyone know if they're limited by PD resources, lack of willing volunteers, the extremely high barrier to entry, or all three? (in Texas, a 50-year-old Reserve recruit must go through Police Academy just like a 25-year-old paid police recruit, and meet the same exact certifications - From what I gather, it's very unusual for a 50-year-old volunteer to even pass the Academy physical entry exam, but of course there's some that can do it). I doubt that all 50-year-old on-duty police officers could pass the Academy physical entry exam either, so does anyone see a disconnect there?

Oh well... I guess you're on your own out there, which in some cases may be better I guess
.

**Retdetsgt** · 01-23-06, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by TXCharlie

Good point... The Guardian Angels do make Citizen's Arrests, which I believe are legal if they use reasonable force and actually witness felonies and crimes against the peace themselves, or act in someone's defense (in Texas anyway), isn't that so? But I get your point, they probably need a lot more training than they get, not only to win fights but to avoid them and not step over their legal bounds. So are the police acadamies willing to train them properly?

Wait, stop and think a minute and consider the people that would want to do this. Normal, average citizens or zealots who are out to prove something?

These aren't people who give a shit about the community, they're people who want to roam around in gangs and exert their "authority" on others. My experience is that they are people who need to prove something to themselves and the world rather than folks who are seriously concerned about the livibility of the neighborhood. If people want to get involved, they don't need to put on some silly ass beret and strut around intimidating people. Which is exactly what they try to do.

**TXCharlie** · 01-23-06, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by Retdetsgt

Wait, stop and think a minute and consider the people that would want to do this. Normal, average citizens or zealots who are out to prove something? .These aren't people who give a shit about the community

The Chief of my town told me and the whole Town Council basically the same thing about sworn Police Reserves - They do it just so they could pin on a badge and carry a gun, not out of any service to the community.

I would guess GA has a mixture of both, and I would hope, in my naive little bubble, that most of their members do care about the community. It's up to their leadership to weed out the bad apples to avoid damaging their national reputation. I wonder if Portland's GA branch just had bad leadership, or is that the norm? Has anyone else had any experience with these guys?

I would also add that Glenn White, president of the Dallas Police Association, got on TV and seemed to argue that perhaps Dallas ought to give them a try. I don't remember his exact quote, but it was something like, "When an organization like this comes to Dallas to lend constructive help to us, we should at least take a look at what they're offering".

I haven't heard him comment further on it - Maybe I'll email him and ask if he's reached any conclusions yet. He did answer the two or three questions that I've emailed to him over the years, although not on this specific subject.

FishTail · 01-23-06, 01:04 PM

I'm afraid the idea of citizens going out looking for trouble and looking to make citizen's arrests just gives me a twitch. See trouble, call it in. Don't try to step in unless someone's going to get a kicking.

**Retdetsgt** · 01-23-06, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by TXCharlie

The Chief of my town told me and the whole Town Council basically the same thing about sworn Police Reserves - They do it just so they could pin on a badge and carry a gun, not out of any service to the community.

I'm not a fan of reserves either, but at least they are trained. Reserves also go through a background check. These guys have neither. And if a dept provides them training, they take on some responsibility for their actions.

If Dallas wants to give them a try, cool. But we did and I already told you what happened. I suspect Dallas will have the same experience.