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Thread: The "drug war"

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    lewisipso's Avatar
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    The "drug war"

    Someone mentioned the "war on drugs" to me yesterday and how it is being lost. I don't like the term "war" in the first place. The politicaly correct persons have a field day whenever law enforcement uses the word "war" on anything and that just makes our job harder.
    Anyway, what does everyone think? Are we winning, losing, or stemming the tide on the "war on drugs"? And why?
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    We will not win until we remove demand, rather than working on supply. Make any drug possession a major felony with harsh sentences, the demand dries up, supply goes away.
    Either that or legalize and tax the crap out of most of it.

    The former is not all that easy to do, given the limited jail space and jammed court dockets.
    I'm not in favor of the latter for obvious reasons.
    There is no easy fix.
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    lewisipso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cidp24 View Post
    Either that or legalize and tax the crap out of most of it.
    Haha! I actually used to say that quite a bit. Talk about a money making operation.
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    I agree whole heartedly with Cidp, you gotta take the demand first. The suppliers will fold when that happens.



    While I won't get into the whole political debate right now, I will say in a sense I agree with legalizing some, actually just weed. I'll get flamed until the cows come home, but I think if it were legalized, taxed to the hilt, and the revenue made from it put into something useful....ohhh, I don't know...more cops, education, etc etc it would be useful. Now, I'm not some closet pot-head, and in fact have never even touched the stuff, and I love taking any and all illegal drugs off the street when I get the chance, but I think at this point we need to worry about the crack, meth, pcp, etc etc. Alot of hardcore pot-heads I know even despise these people. You can argue the "gate-way" drug all you want, but I'm sure if these people were going to do hard drugs, they would do them even if weed weren't around. In fact in the same "gate-way" drug arguement one could even state that likely most potheads drank alcohol before they started smoking weed.

    Merely food for thought, not trying to brew a sh*tstorm here. Discuss.
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    How about the "war" on traffic enforcement? Are we losing that too? People are still speeding, DWI and driving recklessly. I see drugs as just another law that we enforce. Just another type of contraband to take off the streets. Police work is generally reactive and I don't believe we will ever completely deter crime.

    Has legalizing alcohol (after prohibition) really done anything to help or harm society? Regulating alcohol sales and consumption has not lessened crime caused by drinkers. Alcohol was legalized but there are still alcoholics and those who drive while intoxicated. I still confiscate alcohol from underaged kids and write tickets for alcohol related offenses. (open container, minor in possession, etc)

    I don't think that legalizing drugs is a solve-all. Some people would continue to use in the privacy of their homes and cause no harm to anyone else. Others would drive or commit crimes while under the influence of drugs, and some would commit crimes to pay for their addictions the same as they do now.

    The question of what should (or should not) be legalized in different peoples opinions is just opening a can of worms. It is what it is. We are doing our part to keep society balanced. We aren't winning or losing much of anything IMO.
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    The word "war" is applied stupidly here. You're supposed to go to war to win decisively, and that can never happen with any kind of crime. All crime, including drug abuse, will be around until the end of time. You cannot stop them completely, and that should not be the goal.


    Reducing and controlling drug use (along with other crimes) should be the goal. And according to the DEA's statistics, it's working. Even as the population increases, the number of people that use drugs is shrinking.
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    Cidp24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope View Post
    And according to the DEA's statistics, it's working. Even as the population increases, the number of people that use drugs is shrinking.
    It may show that on paper, but I've been around a long time and I dont see that on the streets. I trust what I see.
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    BEB
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    I agree with Jackalope on the "war" terminology. Political rhetoric.

    Others would drive or commit crimes while under the influence of drugs, and some would commit crimes to pay for their addictions the same as they do now.
    What do you make of the argument that if legal drugs would be cheaper and therefore a addict would be able to afford their habit?

    Completely strung out junkies, no, they're not going to have a job. There are many functional alcoholics though and I don't personally know of much violent crime stemming from tobacco which isn't related to tax evasion. Looking at cigarettes, there is a drug which is legal, but social pressure along with some laws (many of which are little more than politicians trying to jump in front of a social trend to claim victory for themselves, imo) have caused a great reduction in usage over the years.

    Is there a responsible level of use for meth? Certainly not the street crap and probably not pharmaceutical grade. For wacky weed? I say absolutely and I suspect many here would agree that someone who smokes pot on the weekend or even has a toke each night after work is just Joe 6pack in a stinky green shirt.

    After marijuana it gets a lot harder to see any level of responsible use. I can't see it myself and I'm for decriminalizing drugs in theory. Kinda wandering off my question about how much violent crime (random and gang related) is directly linked to the high price of illegal drugs so I'll let someone else have the podium.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BEB View Post
    I agree with Jackalope on the "war" terminology. Political rhetoric.



    After marijuana it gets a lot harder to see any level of responsible use. I can't see it myself and I'm for decriminalizing drugs in theory. Kinda wandering off my question about how much violent crime (random and gang related) is directly linked to the high price of illegal drugs so I'll let someone else have the podium.

    Not just violent crime, look at thefts, B&E's, etc to steal to support the habit as well.
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    Yup. I could win the "war" in a year or less. If you're caught dealing on the side of the street. Execution. If you get caught with a crack pipe. Execution. If you get caught with a bag of coke. Execution. If you get caught with heroin.............well, you get the idea.
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    I've had a plan, but no political types will listen.
    Put a bounty on the dealers. They have those video camaras that can attach to a rifle, just bring in the ears and video of the deal going down and you get your bounty. I figure it would be kinda hard to sell dope with a sniper on ever roof.

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    I've always liked the idea of creating "Crack Island". If you get nailed for a hard drug charge, you get shipped to Crack Island... No jail, no fines, just paying for your airfare/boat trip to the island. All of the drugs are free on Crack Island, and there are no laws. The only caveat is that you can never leave. Problem solved. They get their drugs, we get our streets back.

    And, Pudge, I pretty much agree with you. Pot is hardly my biggest concern on the streets, and I don't really feel that the effects of it (on society - not the individual) are much worse than cigarettes, and perhaps less so than alcohol. So, legalizing and taxing it seems like a good idea to me!

    Obviously the harder drugs do impact the rest of society, and therefore I doubt I'd ever support the idea of legalizing crack/meth/pcp/etc, outside of my island (obviously you weren't advocating this idea either)... IMO, there are far too many As$holes doing stuff like cutting copper pipe out of people's houses to finance a rock of crack to convince me that crack isn't a problem!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coloradocop View Post
    I've always liked the idea of creating "Crack Island". If you get nailed for a hard drug charge, you get shipped to Crack Island... No jail, no fines, just paying for your airfare/boat trip to the island. All of the drugs are free on Crack Island, and there are no laws. The only caveat is that you can never leave. Problem solved. They get their drugs, we get our streets back.
    Sounds like a great idea for a reality show!

  14. #14
    PeterJasonMN Guest
    The problem with the whole "The government could sell it and get taxes off it" thing is that then you'd have the same, pardon my language, shitbags who sell dope now, they'd undercut the rates of the government. It shouldn't be too hard since could you imagine the procurement process the .fed would have trying to requisition kilo's of weed for instance? Forms in triplicate, supervisor upon supervisor. Your man on the corner has far less overhead.


    And also: They're not going to all of a sudden go "Well crap, I'm out of a job, I better go file for unemployment and go hit the classifieds".

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    LawnMM is offline Oppressor of Crackheads
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    Personally I think its a losing battle and we'll never really win it with the setup we have in place now. For anybody to do any real time on a dope case it has to be hard drugs and you need a significant quantity of it with intent to distribute to really have the screws put to you. Meanwhile the crackheads that troll the streets and make the neighborhood the shithole it is walk free and we arrest them hundreds of times for weed, crackpipes, even rocks of crack, and still they walk the streets.

    You want to clean up the streets and 'win' the war? Build more jails and start locking up the mopes every working cop in the country arrests on a regular basis and put them in a cage where they belong instead of letting them back out on probation for the umpteenth time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coloradocop View Post
    I've always liked the idea of creating "Crack Island". If you get nailed for a hard drug charge, you get shipped to Crack Island... No jail, no fines, just paying for your airfare/boat trip to the island. All of the drugs are free on Crack Island, and there are no laws. The only caveat is that you can never leave. Problem solved. They get their drugs, we get our streets back.
    I would like to donate Cuba for this cause. Where do I sign it over?

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    PeterJasonMN Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by countybear View Post
    I would like to donate Cuba for this cause. Where do I sign it over?
    How about Haiti? They have uglier women. Cuban women aren't too shabby once you de-commie them.

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    Kpdpipes is offline Master Officer
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    I'd say Decriminalize Possession (Of MJ only of course)..but, conversely HAMMER anyone dealing Anything. the CJ system is getting clogged up with users and simple possession charges. We'll never do away with the demand, but if you put harsh enough penalties on the suppliers they'll find it's not worth the risk...While, personally i'd say go with Indonesia's solution to Dealers, i realize some here might find that a tad harsh.

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    I used to think we should make pot legal, and tax it like tobacco, but that was based on the pot and toking habits of 30+ years ago.

    My aunt and uncle and their friends smoked pot, much as my grandparents had cocktails. They rolled a big fat party doob, and passed it around. It was a lubricant for social intercourse, just like my grandpa's old fashioned. I don't recall seeing anyone drinking to get drunk back then, or smoking to get stoned. If you over indulged, people thought less of you. Being a pot-head was not cool.

    The pot was home-grown back then, so not much of a kick. Now, it's cultivated to be high in THC, and often laced with harder drugs.

    I can't help but think that the change in drinking habits is mirrored, and amplified in drug habits. Kids today drink to get drunk, they brag about it, and encourage it as a sport. They seem to be unable to manage their drinking, or even appreciate the nuance of alcohol....it's all about the buzz.

    I do think the government needs to relaunch the medical marijuana program though. I had a friend in Alaska who was on the program, he had severe eczema, and he got relief from the pain. The "pot" cigarettes he got thru the government had controlled levels of the THC - all relief/no buzz. I also think most of the "storefronts" are "fronts" for pot-heads, not really for people in true medical need, and they need to be shut down.
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    IMO I believe that IF marijuana was legalized that you would see an increase in crime across the board. Why you may ask? well marijuana is a cheep drug to grow, it averages about $1 per plant in cost. The average plant sells for ALOT more than that. Now other drugs such as Meth and Coke are not that cheap to make. As hard as it sounds the drug organizations have been utilizing marijuana to fund the other drugs to get them on the street. If marijuana is legalized you would crush alot of low level manufacturers and dealers but what would happen is that the other drugs would drastically increase in price. When they do that crime will follow, people will become more violent, theft crimes would sky rocket and there would just be a problem. I am anti LEAP btw. I do however think that there are some medical uses for it, although some of the people who have gotten prescriptions in CA for there depression is a joke. I believe that the people who have problems with eating, pain and or are on death bed should be allowed to do what they want to help live a more comfortable life.
    Its different in MN than the other states, 42.5 grams and less is a ticketable offense. You get a heaver fine if you are under 21 and drinking than you do if you possess pot. so here in MN we are almost to legalizing it, but there is always the federal law we could charge them under.


 

 
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