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  1. #1
    scratrat is offline Rookie
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    Another HR 218 Question

    Well, I guess I'll strat with the intro. Hi!

    I am a Federal Corrections Officer. It is my understanding that I fall under the clause of HR 218 with regards to carrying throughout the 50 States. Let me emphazise, I am in NO WAY attempting to impersonate an LEO or say I am one, but for the purposes of this law, I fall in the category.

    Anyway, I hold a Florida concealed carry permit. There are places I can't carry, ie, schools, parks, bars, etc. Does the same hold true if you are falling under HR218? Can I carry in an establishment that serves alcohol, if I'm either not drinking, or there to pick up food or something? I also noticed that at several parks (city owned) there are signs saying "No Firearms". I can't seem to get a straight answer if this means no carry, or no target practice. I understand that some places are off limits, like court houses and so on. But I want to cover my bases so I don't get into trouble. Obviously, it's concealed. But God forbid something minor happens, and I'm carrying somewhere I sohuldn't, I don't want to be in trouble.

    Finally, the Bureau does not issue us any kind of card or ID that says we are licensed to carry, proficient to carry, nothing... Just your Bureau ID. The Warden even mentioned once that we were permitted to carry off duty with our ID. As an LEO, am I going to run into problems if all I can produce is my Bureau ID card?

    Any help is greatly appreciated.

  2. #2
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    Michael P. Gordon E.O.W 08 Aug 2004




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  3. #3
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    Sec. 926B. Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified law enforcement officers
    (a) Notwithstanding any other provision of the law of any State or any political subdivision thereof, an individual who is a
    qualified law enforcement officer and who is carrying the identification required by subsection (d) may carry a concealed
    firearm that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, subject to subsection (b).
    (b) This section shall not be construed to supersede or limit the laws of any State that--
    (1) permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their
    property; or
    (2) prohibit or restrict the possession of firearms on any State or local government property, installation,
    building, base, or park.
    (c) As used in this section, the term “qualified law enforcement officer” means an employee of a governmental agency
    who--
    (1) is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or
    the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and has statutory powers of arrest;
    (2) is authorized by the agency to carry a firearm;
    (3) is not the subject of any disciplinary action by the agency;
    (4) meets standards, if any, established by the agency which require the employee to regularly qualify in the use
    of a firearm;
    (5) is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and
    (6) is not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm.
    (d) The identification required by this subsection is the photographic identification issued by the governmental agency for which the individual is employed as a law enforcement officer.

    I read this to mean that when a State law (or private entity's policy) restricts firearms carry in certain places, then the restriction specifically supercedes HR218.

    The credential requirement is not ambiguous. The Departmental ID is sufficient.

    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money."
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  4. #4
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    dadyswat is offline Officer First Class
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    Don't forget you have to qualify to department or state standards and carry paperwork that shows you met the qualification standard and with what weapon.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by dadyswat View Post
    Don't forget you have to qualify to department or state standards and carry paperwork that shows you met the qualification standard and with what weapon.
    Ah, correct-o. Good point, DS.

    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money."
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    altonc27 is offline Rookie
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    To make this clear for me I am training to be a c/o now. This actually would make a good question in training but with this clause I am also applying to carry a concealed weapon would that mean I fall under the same thing or since Im joining a local PD it wouldn't count? I have no means to travel and carry my weapon along the way but I do plan on keeping my pistol in my car down here in SC. But if I travel up home would that be illegal if I had it in my vehicle?

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    scratrat is offline Rookie
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    Quote Originally Posted by dadyswat View Post
    Don't forget you have to qualify to department or state standards and carry paperwork that shows you met the qualification standard and with what weapon.
    We qualify every year, however, we are no given any paperwork to suggest we met the qualification. Again, they only issue the Department ID. We don't use the criminal justice standard or whatever that is, where they issue you a card. We do our own I believe. I don't know if it's different because we are federal. In any case, the only proof I have, is my ID. They never mentioned this in training either. They don't issue any kind of sidearms except when physically working. Anything we carry outside of work, is our own and not from the department. The department also does not tell us what we can or cannot carry. It's whatever handgun you posess.

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    scratrat is offline Rookie
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    Quote Originally Posted by altonc27 View Post
    To make this clear for me I am training to be a c/o now. This actually would make a good question in training but with this clause I am also applying to carry a concealed weapon would that mean I fall under the same thing or since Im joining a local PD it wouldn't count? I have no means to travel and carry my weapon along the way but I do plan on keeping my pistol in my car down here in SC. But if I travel up home would that be illegal if I had it in my vehicle?

    You confuzzled me a litte bit

    You are a CO and and police officer or just a CO?

    You are also applying for a concealed permit? You won't need it once you are a CO.
    The HR 218 law eliminates that need. I have one in Florida, but I don't need to renew it, now that I am a CO. It would not be illegal to bring it back "home" with you in the car IF you are a certifed CO. The HR 218 bill, states you can carry in ALL 50 states. But I already found out about some places that you cannot carry, like schools, airplanes, court buildings, and so on.

    The reason I asked about this, is because I know I'm not a cop. CO's fall into the category for the purposes of HR 218. I wanted to make sure I don't run into trouble with local law enforcement if I choose to carry under the bill.

  9. #9
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    There is no requirement that you carry proof of your qualification, only that you meet it, if any.

    Virtually none of the government agencies that employ people with powers of arrest issue such documentation.

    A friend of mine carries on his BOP creds without difficulty.

    In Washington State, all of our corrections officers qualify - other States may not. Our attorney general has held that if you can arrest people, and you carry a gun when you do it - you are an LEO for the purposes of the title.
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    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by scratrat View Post
    We qualify every year, however, we are no given any paperwork to suggest we met the qualification. Again, they only issue the Department ID. We don't use the criminal justice standard or whatever that is, where they issue you a card. We do our own I believe. I don't know if it's different because we are federal. In any case, the only proof I have, is my ID. They never mentioned this in training either. They don't issue any kind of sidearms except when physically working. Anything we carry outside of work, is our own and not from the department. The department also does not tell us what we can or cannot carry. It's whatever handgun you posess.

    If you're active I believe you're fine but if you're retired you'll need the qualification paperwork.

  11. #11
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    armsmaster270 is offline Ret. Sac. P.D. - 270th M.P. Co., Now with D.H.S.
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    My agency issues at the range a 3/4 x 1 1/4 sticker to stick on or I.D. Card that states HR218 2008


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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by scratrat View Post
    You are also applying for a concealed permit? You won't need it once you are a CO.
    Yeah don't get too far ahead of yourself. In MN CO's are not law enforcement officers and are required to have a concealed carry permit. Every state is different.
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  13. #13
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    NYS Court Officers are issued 1 of 2 ID cards based on Weapons Qual. If you fail to "Q" for the year, you are to turn in ALL handguns you own(until you pass the "Q" course) and then you are issued a "No Firearm" ID card with the dreaded words in red on the card. If you "Q", then the ID card stays the same without the "No Firearm" stamp on it. I've had no problems carrying in other states. Just as a pre-caution, I hold a NY concealed carry, a PA carry and Utah carry permit. Covers all the places that I might travel to and the places inbetween.
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  14. #14
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    n30
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    well

    we have to qualify 2 a yr. then we also have other training throughout the year, such as active shooter w/ simmunitions guns, "bomb" situations (in a school), felony stops, driving courses, less than lethal force training & stuff. I work for a city & we dont have a card/id whatever that specifically states we are authorized to carry. If one chooses to carry off duty, we just bring our badge & police ID.
    I am of the belief, perhaps niavely some may say, when I'm off, I'm off. I don't carry... not my duty firearm, not my little 2lb colt pocketlight, nothing. I do not ever want to be in a sitaution that if im out, especailly drinking, dinner w/ wine, etc.. that a situation happens & that i have my firearm... nope. dont wanna go there.
    V

  15. #15
    altonc27 is offline Rookie
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    Quote Originally Posted by scratrat View Post
    You confuzzled me a litte bit

    You are a CO and and police officer or just a CO?

    You are also applying for a concealed permit? You won't need it once you are a CO.
    The HR 218 law eliminates that need. I have one in Florida, but I don't need to renew it, now that I am a CO. It would not be illegal to bring it back "home" with you in the car IF you are a certifed CO. The HR 218 bill, states you can carry in ALL 50 states. But I already found out about some places that you cannot carry, like schools, airplanes, court buildings, and so on.

    The reason I asked about this, is because I know I'm not a cop. CO's fall into the category for the purposes of HR 218. I wanted to make sure I don't run into trouble with local law enforcement if I choose to carry under the bill.
    Im in training right now to be a CO but I drive up north to CT so Im curious how this law will effect me if I choose to drive with my weapon in my car. That is once I get done with training down here in SC

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmur5074 View Post
    Yeah don't get too far ahead of yourself. In MN CO's are not law enforcement officers and are required to have a concealed carry permit. Every state is different.

    jmur, to be fair it really doesn't matter what the State considers an LEO.

    If he carries a gun, works for a government agency, and arrests people - the US Code applies and the State can fuck off.

    Most attorneys general have ruled this way.

    The only reason it may not apply in every State is contingent on meeting the tests written into the code:

    A qualified active law enforcement officer is defined as an employee of a government agency who:

    . is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, prosecution or the incarceration of any person for any violation of law;

    . has statutory powers of arrest;

    . is authorized by the agency to carry a firearm;

    . is not the subject of any disciplinary action by the agency;

    . meets the standards, if any, established by the agency which require the employee to regularly qualify in the use of a firearm;

    . is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and

    . is not prohibited by Federal law from possessing a firearm.
    I'm your huckleberry...

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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by n30 View Post
    ...
    I am of the belief, perhaps niavely some may say, when I'm off, I'm off. I don't carry... not my duty firearm, not my little 2lb colt pocketlight, nothing. I do not ever want to be in a sitaution that if im out, especailly drinking, dinner w/ wine, etc.. that a situation happens & that i have my firearm... nope. dont wanna go there.
    Baaaaa.

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  18. #18
    jmur5074's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maclean View Post
    jmur, to be fair it really doesn't matter what the State considers an LEO.

    If he carries a gun, works for a government agency, and arrests people - the US Code applies and the State can fuck off.
    Well I didn't get into detail in my post above, but I'm not familiar with an agency in my state who's CO's have power of arrest. There may be some municipal lock up/jails in the metro area, but I don't believe any of our Sheriff's office's have CO's have power of arrest. But I could definitely be wrong.
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  19. #19
    MacLean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmur5074 View Post
    Well I didn't get into detail in my post above, but I'm not familiar with an agency in my state who's CO's have power of arrest. There may be some municipal lock up/jails in the metro area, but I don't believe any of our Sheriff's office's have CO's have power of arrest. But I could definitely be wrong.
    No worries - sometimes we forget power of arrest also applies to inside the walls of an institution, or in the case of some corrections officers even outside.

    Here in Washington, some DOC officers would even qualify to be verified here by our standards - let alone the federal statute for weapons.
    I'm your huckleberry...

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  20. #20
    scratrat is offline Rookie
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmur5074 View Post
    Well I didn't get into detail in my post above, but I'm not familiar with an agency in my state who's CO's have power of arrest. There may be some municipal lock up/jails in the metro area, but I don't believe any of our Sheriff's office's have CO's have power of arrest. But I could definitely be wrong.

    We do, it's VERY extremely limited. At least at the Federal level, they have to really screw up, but we can arrest them. It's kind of pointless though because they still have to be turned over to you guys in the end. But we can arrest for obviously escape, assisting escape, imminent threats (murder blah blah), trespass, and that's pretty much it.

 

 
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