Welcome to the APBWeb.
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Results 21 to 40 of 40
  1. #21
    Join Date
    04-16-06
    Location
    Bay Area, CA
    Posts
    42
    Rep Power
    916890

    Do administrators lose touch?

    Quote Originally Posted by SnakeInTheGrass
    Do you think police administrators lose touch with reality, forget the job, and lose touch with the officers on the street?

    Why or why not?
    Look at the San Francisco, CA. Police Dept of the last two years for an answer.
    The Administration, along with the Mayor, went nuts following a videotape made by and for Cops at one of the City's 10 stations.

    http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...NGHEG5GN71.DTL

    A COP (as Chief) would have held a press conference, assuring people the "Matter would be looked into, and all acts of malfeasance dealt with immediately. I cannot comment further, as the matter is with Internal Affairs. Thank you. The press conferecne is over..."

    Instead, the City's Police Chief, tears in her eyes, told the gathered reporters and politicians: "This is a dark, dark day in the History of the SFPD..." (Among other nuggets.)

    If an Administartor/Chief/etc. was nver a COP to begin with, they have NO business running the Department. You can't play first Trumpet in the band unless you paid your dues on the way up....

  2. #22
    Big-Mo is offline Banned
    Join Date
    02-02-06
    Location
    St Louis, Missouri
    Posts
    131
    Rep Power
    0
    That DetSgt is one smart cookie and I agree with his statement....
    I also have to add that I was with a large Metro PD and have met every kind of street cop and commander. People are People. I LOVED the street and would NEVER make an administrator, I didn't have the administrative background needed. Maybe IF I had finished my college business degree then I might have been more qualified. I have had the worst and the best but I also made it my career choice to being a member of our Police Association and fight for all officers which pretty well finished any advancement. I was happy with it and have no regrets and hope I made a difference in the long run.
    Take care and Be safe all !!

  3. #23
    AngryBassets's Avatar
    AngryBassets is offline Sgt. Phatas
    Join Date
    03-11-06
    Location
    A wretched hive of scum and villiany.
    Posts
    211
    Rep Power
    224029
    Quote Originally Posted by lesta311
    Same here. Although the brass has lost touch with things, there is a neccesary function they do. My district Captain is very into results based accountability. Once I got promoted, I started attending community and department meetings. It was nice to see the other side of things and it gave me a better understanding of where the memos and changes of philosophy come from. I am also seeing how many complaints come into the department and get handled on a higher level. I'm happy with my current chain of command since my Captain and Lieutenant seem to understand the human side of the job and are considerate of mistakes, and accomadating with schedule problems.
    Wow. That's exactly how I feel.

    My department is about 45 patrolmen, 10 detectives, 8 Sgts, 4 Lts, 2 Capts, and a chief.

    I considered myself a "street cop". I never had any aspirations for an investigative position/steady 9-5 dayshift/etc. I really like the road.

    I scored #1 on the last test, and despite being a black sheep (or so I thought), I got promoted. The next senior Sgt is 20 badge #s away from me, so (unfortunately) it took a lot of work establishing myself as a boss, but not some cocky a-hole who had a lucky Saturday and "forgot where he came from". "Positional authority", etc, and all that other crap I forgot from all the books I studied, y'know....

    We have 5 patrol Sgts. Each one runs their squad very differently.

    I've learned already, like Les said, that a lot of things supervision/administration has to do is a necessary evil. I've also got a different perspective on the "whys" of management. I'm treated very very differently by the administration (Lts/Capts/Chief) than I was a year ago. It's a daily battle not to lose one's mind and become "one of them" and not to commit career suicide by being "one of the boys", which, as a boss, YOU ARE NOT

    Fortunately, my Lt is one of the best bosses I've ever had.

    Management isn't as easy as you think....
    Last edited by AngryBassets; 05-05-06 at 10:40 PM.
    "We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
    --George Orwell
    NOTE: NJ Supreme Court no longer allows effective policing in the "Garden State". The above statement may not apply.

  4. #24
    4 Turns is offline Rookie
    Join Date
    05-18-06
    Posts
    39
    Rep Power
    23743
    A few years ago I came up with a theory on why the higher in rank a person is the less thinking appears to happen (this was helped by a few 12-oz. curls).

    When an officer is promoted to sergeant, the chevrons on the collar start to pinch off the return of blood from the brain. This causes New Sergeants' Disease, the main symptom of which is a swelling of the head.

    When a sergeant is promoted to lieutenant, the single bar starts pressing on the artery, causing a decrease in oxygen going to the brain. This is a wide, light pressure, so a good portion of blood still reaches the brain but causes disorientation to surroundings.

    The captains' bars are heavier and press down harder on the artery, and blood can only flow to the brain through the tiny space between the bars. Rational thought processes stop at this point.

    Chiefs' or Sheriffs' eagles are wide enough to cut off all blood flow to the brain, causing complete loss of higher brain functions.

  5. #25
    hotpursuit's Avatar
    hotpursuit is offline Rookie
    Join Date
    05-14-06
    Location
    Industry Pa
    Posts
    5
    Rep Power
    0
    I can tell you this, I have spent over 20 years in Law Enforcement and during this time I was promoted to Detective Sergeant. I was pulled off the street and became a pencil pusher. I'm not saying that a bad thing but I enjoyed being on the street and with the guys whom you build a repore with. I eventually went back on the street as a supervising sergeant and love it..
    We have Sergeants and Lt's on my dept that push there rank to the limit. How easily we all forget where we came from.

  6. #26
    TheOldRhino's Avatar
    TheOldRhino is offline Corporal
    Join Date
    05-23-06
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    1,142
    Rep Power
    2707687
    The skills street officers learn and develop are perishable skills.

    If you don't use them you lose them. Some adminitrative type cops let them perish, some don't.
    The virtue of spirit has no need for thanks or approval. Only the certain conviction that what has been done is right. -Jor El, as played by Marlon Brando

  7. #27
    Retdetsgt's Avatar
    Retdetsgt is offline How did I get here!
    Verified LEO
    Join Date
    12-07-05
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    1,944
    Rep Power
    7757749
    Quote Originally Posted by Centurion44
    The skills street officers learn and develop are perishable skills.

    If you don't use them you lose them. Some adminitrative type cops let them perish, some don't.
    I completely disagree with that first statement. I worked the street for 10 years and then became a detective and a sergeant. The skills you learn on the street are really only honing the inate talents you already have. I strongly believe cops are born, not made. Some people can do all the stuff taught in the academy and never be worth a shit on the street. You never lose it.

    But administration is a completely different job and street skills aren't going to do squat for you there. I've seen a lot of great cops move up and be sorry admin people. Nothing on the street trains them for that. Even being a supervisor uses different skills and talents. I learned how to be a supevisor in the army, not on the police dept. And I screwed up badly several times in the army before I learned that job.

    It's all about power in the upper ranks. People in the private sector judge success by the amount of money they make. In the public sector, it's power. The more power you can amass, the more successful you are. That's why a lot of admin who maybe were good cops don't care because their aim is to gain power and build empires. Working cops no longer matter.
    When I used to be somebody (I'm center top)

    "A burning desire for social justice is never a substitute for knowing what you're talking about". -Thomas Sowell-

  8. #28
    TheeBadOne's Avatar
    TheeBadOne is offline Why so serious?
    Verified LEO
    Join Date
    03-13-06
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    1,119
    Rep Power
    7265083
    Retdetsgt said a lot. Being a Supervisor requires a different toolset to that of being a street Cop.

    -different tool set to be a Street Soup
    -different tool set yet again as you move up

    "When I'm driving along and I see a sign that says, CAUTION: SMALL CHILDREN AHEAD,
    I slow down, and then it occurs to me, I'm not afraid of small children"!

  9. #29
    StanSwitek's Avatar
    StanSwitek is offline Corporal
    Join Date
    12-04-05
    Location
    Huntington Beach, CA
    Posts
    891
    Rep Power
    1143373
    Often times it requires requires courage to do the right thing vs doing the PC thing which can be a much easier decision.

  10. #30
    TXCharlie's Avatar
    TXCharlie is offline Former & Future Reserve Officer
    Join Date
    12-29-05
    Location
    Dallas Area
    Posts
    5,528
    Rep Power
    3224966
    Don't talk to me about Administrators right now - I just had a falling out with our Chief via email earlier this week, and I used the word "crap" six times (mostly in the context that I was tired of him treating me like I was full of it), just because I want our CPA org to start moving in the direction of VIPS, which includes Citizen Patrols and activities like that

    (see http://www.policevolunteers.org/volunteer/what.cfm)

    It's a good thing I don't work there, because I'd be looking for a job about now. I fully expect him to try to drum me out of the VP slot after what I said to him, but no great loss for me, in its current form.

    So much for trying to build PD / Citizen partnerships in this Town. He's thrown us a few bones, to be fair about it (such as B-PAD training), but I think all he truly wants is some cheerleaders on the sidelines, and I'll always think that until he meets us at the table instead of just via email.

    This damn town is too small to be communicating by email all the time, especially since we have our meetings at the police station, but he's only shown up once in 3 years (a year or two ago, after I resigned over this very issue - his refusal to even talk about it. He talked about it then, alright, while I wasn't there to defend myself, my ideas, or my motives)
    Last edited by TXCharlie; 05-26-06 at 09:22 PM.

    (\__/)
    (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
    (")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.

  11. #31
    AGalCop's Avatar
    AGalCop is offline Between Rookie and Ol' Timer
    Join Date
    05-25-06
    Location
    California
    Posts
    253
    Rep Power
    4603738
    I believe that some haven't 'lost touch' with the streets, it's just that they were never there long enough to get 'in touch'. We have some people, because of the education degrees they carry, moved up through the ranks so fast, street experience and understanding would be impossible for them. Along the same lines, it's hard for me to understand a Sgt being assigned to Narcotics, or any other special unit when he/she has no experience in that particular field. It's frustrating for the unit and can be dangerous at times.

  12. #32
    Retdetsgt's Avatar
    Retdetsgt is offline How did I get here!
    Verified LEO
    Join Date
    12-07-05
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    1,944
    Rep Power
    7757749
    Quote Originally Posted by StanSwitek
    Often times it requires requires courage to do the right thing vs doing the PC thing which can be a much easier decision.
    When I worked the street, I occasionally pissed people off. When I became a supervisor, I still occasionally pissed somebody off. Some of the time I couldn't help it, I was just enforcing some dumbass order that someone above me came out with. But sometimes I just called someone that worked for me on their bullshit.

    I figured my primary job as a supervisor was to get the people that worked for me what they needed to do their job and to be a buffer between them and some lieutenant. The only things I asked from them was to do a decent job and don't do shit that's gonna get someone above me on my ass.

    I was acting Lt for a short time, just long enough to make me absolutely sure that I wanted no part of that job. It requires tact and diplomacy, of which I have none.
    When I used to be somebody (I'm center top)

    "A burning desire for social justice is never a substitute for knowing what you're talking about". -Thomas Sowell-

  13. #33
    Big-Mo is offline Banned
    Join Date
    02-02-06
    Location
    St Louis, Missouri
    Posts
    131
    Rep Power
    0
    Hey Sarge, I feel that you were not part of the problem but more of a single solution, just my observations.
    I saw a LOT of officers make Sgt and Lieutenant and very few up to Major and Colonels who were great guys and never forgot where they came from.
    BUT, I saw MANY MORE who rarely if ever hit the street and started out as one form of administrator and go straight up and NEVER know or respect the street cop and usually made Chief first.
    You just have to sit back and observe and watch how they wiggle the system and work the political games and pin point the influential cops and people and you will see how they move. I have seen men try the old way (as I did) and were good street coppers and hardly move anywhere until they had to go the route to progress further. It has also ruined many a good officer trying to proceed and grow and if that didn't work, the step up to other ranks also has the same affect of ruining higher ranks. The GAME OF POLITICS !!
    Read and Weep Young Men and Ladies and hopefully LEARN !!

  14. #34
    TheOldRhino's Avatar
    TheOldRhino is offline Corporal
    Join Date
    05-23-06
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    1,142
    Rep Power
    2707687
    Quote Originally Posted by Retdetsgt
    I completely disagree with that first statement.
    Well, disagree all you want, but I've gotten into an arguement with a Det. Capt over the "Concealed Weapon" law in my state. Someone had to actually show him the law in the book to prove me right.

    Then there's a Det. who was policing 30 years, but aftera few years behind a desk, I had to try and explain the difference between two different theft laws.

    Then there's my own experience. I was taken from the academy and then assigned to the jail. There was about a year and half between my academy graduation and me getting on the road in an FTO program- and I had "re-learn" a lot of stuff over again.

    Just curious if there are any current patrol or street level officers who disagree with me when I say "The skills we learn are perishable skills."?
    The virtue of spirit has no need for thanks or approval. Only the certain conviction that what has been done is right. -Jor El, as played by Marlon Brando

  15. #35
    Cst.SB's Avatar
    Cst.SB is offline Officer First Class
    Join Date
    05-11-06
    Posts
    526
    Rep Power
    1066999
    Quote Originally Posted by Centurion44
    Just curious if there are any current patrol or street level officers who disagree with me when I say "The skills we learn are perishable skills."?
    Not me, I agree 100%!

    I just got back to work after a 9 month parental leave, and have fucked up everyday since I got back! Nothing major of course. Three hours after I got back I took down a meth addict known to cause police pursuits at gun point, then transported, lodged, and prepared the documents for the prosecuter, no problem.

    The next day I had to call a friend because I couldn't remember how to recover a stupid stolen vehicle when the electronic file had been archived. Doh!

    It's the little things that go first. However, in all fairness to all my bosses, they are all still definately cops at heart.

  16. #36
    RdrB67's Avatar
    RdrB67 is offline Officer First Class
    Join Date
    05-10-06
    Posts
    109
    Rep Power
    1810988
    I would definitely say it depends on the administrator, his character, etc. In all fairness, I would say that it's entirely possible that when someone becomes an administrator, they are immersed in a set of facts and circumstances that the rank and file are unaware of-- budget realities, etc.

    Also, by becoming a boss, they are essentially removed from the "street" and isolated from that side of the job to whatever degree they allow. If they become consumed with the world that is their office or in-box and don't take the time to step out and be with the rank and file, they will inevitably forget and lose touch imho.

    I haven't been in that sphere yet, but from what I've observed from the outside, it seems to me that an administrator's job will consume whatever time he/she feeds it. Their work "will expand to fill the available time." If they don't successfully manage and control their time and themselves, they'll lose touch and more importantly, they'll lose the respect of their people, potentially.
    Last edited by RdrB67; 05-27-06 at 01:20 AM.
    "Nothing says guilty like a high-priced lawyer."
    - Tom Griswold



  17. #37
    Cujo's Avatar
    Cujo is offline Officer First Class
    Join Date
    05-14-06
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    77
    Rep Power
    1190031
    I reserve the right to remain silent.
    Pax
    Cujo

  18. #38
    TXCharlie's Avatar
    TXCharlie is offline Former & Future Reserve Officer
    Join Date
    12-29-05
    Location
    Dallas Area
    Posts
    5,528
    Rep Power
    3224966
    Quote Originally Posted by Centurion44
    Well, disagree all you want, but I've gotten into an arguement with a Det. Capt over the "Concealed Weapon" law in my state. Someone had to actually show him the law in the book to prove me right.
    That doesn't shock me - Thank you for educating him

    Just curious, what were his misconceptions about the CHL laws?

    (\__/)
    (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
    (")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.

  19. #39
    TheOldRhino's Avatar
    TheOldRhino is offline Corporal
    Join Date
    05-23-06
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    1,142
    Rep Power
    2707687
    Quote Originally Posted by TXCharlie
    That doesn't shock me - Thank you for educating him

    Just curious, what were his misconceptions about the CHL laws?
    It wasn't just me- there were like 3 or 4 of us arguing with him. It's been over a year now. Doesn't really have anything to do with the topic at hand, but I want to say he thought it was illegal to carry a concealed weapoin anywhere in the vehicle. But Georgia law allows the exception of carrying a firearm in a glove box or center console. I can't remember exactly though.

    I'm not trying to say he wasn't compitent or anything. It's just probably been so long since he had to enforce that law he just forgot. Because, as I say, we learn perishable skills.
    The virtue of spirit has no need for thanks or approval. Only the certain conviction that what has been done is right. -Jor El, as played by Marlon Brando

  20. #40
    TXCharlie's Avatar
    TXCharlie is offline Former & Future Reserve Officer
    Join Date
    12-29-05
    Location
    Dallas Area
    Posts
    5,528
    Rep Power
    3224966
    Yeah, I had an arguement with an officer once at my shooting club, of all places, who thought it was illegal to carry a gun to a city council meeting or in a city park if the municipal code forbids it - I had to show him on the states' web site that the state's CHL laws overrode municipal codes back in 2002 I think, except for buildings with courtrooms or jails - so if the building doesn't have any courtrooms or jails in it, and there's no 30.06 sign on it (a requirement also added in 2002), then he's SOL if he arrests someone for doing that.

    He also mentioned that his wife thought it was a pain to go back home on voting day to drop her pistol off, then double back to the school so she could vote, because he thought a "School Weapons-Free Zone" applied to all schools and couldn't be brought within 1,000 feet - so I had to show him that in our schools I can bring it into the parking lot as long as a school-sponsored sporting activity isn't occuring within 300 feet, or something like that.

    He went home and said he needed to read some other stuff, too
    .
    Last edited by TXCharlie; 05-28-06 at 11:51 PM.

    (\__/)
    (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
    (")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.

 

 
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Police Deaths Up Sharply
    By Big Sexy in forum In the News
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 07-23-07, 01:25 PM
  2. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-05-07, 09:31 AM
  3. Several Police Week Officers Caught Misbehaving
    By Autumn2009 in forum In the News
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 05-18-07, 06:50 PM
  4. Miami-dade Law Enforcement
    By phantasm in forum In the News
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03-30-07, 12:12 AM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •