Do police administrators forget the job or lose touch with officers on the street?

**SnakeInTheGrass** · 03-20-06, 04:47 PM

Do you think police administrators lose touch with reality, forget the job, and lose touch with the officers on the street?

Why or why not?

**jmur5074** · 03-20-06, 05:46 PM

With a name like "snakeinthegrass" i'm not sure I wanna answer...

**slamdunc** · 03-20-06, 05:54 PM

This depends; some do and some do not lose touch. There are some working chiefs of police, as well as deputy chiefs and other command personnel. When I say 'working', I mean those still following calls and backing their guys up.

Just because an administrator no longer works the streets, doesn't mean he is out of touch. There are also some officers who go to work every day, and do not have a clue as to what they are supposed to be doing.

I would rather have an administrator who knows his shit show up on my call to assist, than an officer who is going to be a liability.

**TXCharlie** · 03-20-06, 06:42 PM

That's one thing I see that's so neat about Dallas' Police Chief David Kunkle - I've heard that he makes it a point to go on patrol like once every month or so, just to keep in touch with what's happening on the streets - Stuff that he can't gleem from statistics and briefings.

I have an extended family member on the force who seems to love the guy because of little things like that.

**Pudge** · 03-20-06, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by SnakeInTheGrass

Do you think police administrators lose touch with reality, forget the job, and lose touch with the officers on the street?

Why or why not?

Captain? Is that you???

I thought we told you the answer to this....

**Pudge** · 03-20-06, 06:43 PM

All joking aside, it depends on the person and how they were "brought up" through the ranks

**Virginian** · 03-20-06, 07:26 PM

I imagine it's like anything else- some people kick back and gain weight while their staff runs the place, and others are right in the mix. Hard to believe some chiefs even leave their guns at home.

**BEK** · 03-20-06, 10:36 PM

I think the higher up they get they loose spinal fluid, and therefore only do what they are told. They dont have the save the world ideas anymore and they have gotten use to bending over and taking it. ooo sorry, didnt mean to offend but i speak the truth.

**TXCharlie** · 03-20-06, 10:54 PM

BEK you're gonna be sent to a re-alignment camp if you don't watch out

**Retdetsgt** · 03-20-06, 10:55 PM

At least in my dept., the job is completely different. How good a cop you were has nothing to do with how good an administrator you'll be, the job requirements are nowhere near the same. I've worked for some captains and lieutenants who were great street cops, but sorry ass commanders. They didn't know how, pure and simple.

A lot of my command people never worked the street all that long to begin with and most weren't that good. That's why they moved up in rank, trying to find a position where they felt comfortable. Here it's not so much they lost spinal fluid, they never understood the job that well to begin with. There are exceptions, but not many. All we could hope for would be that they would at least try to get us the stuff we needed to do our job.

Our current chief is one of the exceptions, but he's working for a super liberal mayor now and there isn't much he can do to protect people. If he does too much, he's gone and some dweeb will be appointed. That's another problem, any chief that's not responsive to the pols will be replaced just about anywhere.

The only reason most depts work at all is that there are usually enough people who enjoy the job and do it in spite of the command and politicians. And there wasn't enough money in the world to make me take the lieutenants test......

**lcsodre108** · 03-20-06, 11:53 PM

In some cases they do, but I must commend our Sheriff. He went to the academy, even though he did'nt have to, and he patrols almost as much as a full time officer. It is rare that he is not out at least one night of the weekend, usually he comes out both nights, he responds to all kinds of calls, and is pretty good backup.

**Garda** · 03-21-06, 10:28 AM

Over here you get promoted by being a prick to your officers, saving money and starting the most usless operations and ideas.

Sergeants are mostly fine, its a standard promotion that many take however once you go beyond that your looking at officers and politics kick in.

Oh and in case you didnt guess, I hate the higher ups in my force.

I mean, what kind of a boss wouldnt fight for mace, stun gun or even an ASP for his officers? What kind of a boss doesnt look for body armour? A political puppet worried baouot his fat pension thats who.

Oh and these people are the same ones telling us not too be corrupt or abuse prisoners cause they wont stand for it but the reason were being told us because THEY DID IT!!!

**Retdetsgt** · 03-21-06, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by Garda30055A

Sergeants are mostly fine, its a standard promotion that many take however once you go beyond that your looking at officers and politics kick in.

That's the way it is here. I was acting Lt. for a couple of months. I couldn't believe the backstabbing that went on at that rank, not the troops but each other. However, doing the troops was certainly an option open to all if it would make any look better to the chief.

I'm glad I did it because it squashed any idea I ever had for upward mobility.

**TXCharlie** · 03-21-06, 11:31 AM

After hearing you guys talk about this, I think I have a better system: The Rank & File votes a real cop in for "Chief of the Month"... After a month, vote another real cop in for "Chief of the Month"... Then have the Union or Police Association guarantee a lawsuit will result if there's any retaliation from the politicians just because the acting Chief rocked the boat a little.

Normally I don't like unions, but sometimes they're necessary

Yeah, I know, it'd never happen, and the politicians would figure out a way to retaliate anyway, such as withholding funding - There would still have to be some sort of Civilian control at the top, after all.

Also maybe my idea would work for a small department, but I guess a large department with huge multi-year planning issues would suffer from inconsistent and inexperienced leadership. Oh well...

**Retdetsgt** · 03-21-06, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by TXCharlie

After hearing you guys talk about this, I think I have a better system: The Rank & File votes a real cop in for "Chief of the Month"... After a month, vote another real cop in for "Chief of the Month"...

Oddy enough, the worst chief we ever had probably would have been elected if there had been a vote. Penny Harrington was a very popular Lt and then captain here. She would listen to the rank and file and always stood up for us against the chief's office.

Then they made her chief (she was the first woman chief of a major police dept) and she went nuts. I won't go into details, too many of them, but she was given a no confidence vote (the first and only vote of that kind we ever had). The mayor had to fire her, she was an absolute disaster. Goes to show you never know until they get there.

**StanSwitek** · 03-21-06, 12:21 PM

I heard all kinds of rumors about her down here. I'd love to hear a few good tidbits.

**TXCharlie** · 03-21-06, 12:49 PM

Oh well, that's probably why they never voted me in as King for a Day

**lesta311** · 03-21-06, 01:10 PM

I agree with the general consensus that it depends on the department and the size of the agency. I work for a large department and once you hit lieutenant, you can forget working the streets. Even at our sergeant level, you are an administrator.

Many of the command staff are very aware of the fact that they don't do the day to day things anymore and are very receptive to the concerns of the officers. I can't complain since they get me the equipment I need, and they leave breaking it off in you as a last option.

**Retdetsgt** · 03-21-06, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by lesta311

Even at our sergeant level, you are an administrator.

That's the way it is at the precincts where I work. But when I left, all our detectives were Sgts. Since then, they've changed it, but detectives still get Sgt pay and are their own civil service rank.

Our uniform Sgts never do police work other than supervise major incidents.

**lesta311** · 03-21-06, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by Retdetsgt

Our uniform Sgts never do police work other than supervise major incidents.

Same here. Although the brass has lost touch with things, there is a neccesary function they do. My district Captain is very into results based accountability. Once I got promoted, I started attending community and department meetings. It was nice to see the other side of things and it gave me a better understanding of where the memos and changes of philosophy come from. I am also seeing how many complaints come into the department and get handled on a higher level. I'm happy with my current chain of command since my Captain and Lieutenant seem to understand the human side of the job and are considerate of mistakes, and accomadating with schedule problems.