Welcome to the APBWeb.
Results 1 to 9 of 9
  1. #1
    NC Bullseye's Avatar
    NC Bullseye is offline Officer First Class
    Join Date
    01-20-10
    Posts
    61
    Rep Power
    48079

    Vehicle Stops & Concealed Carry Question

    I teach the NC concealed handgun training class and this is a question that I have been asked quite a few times. I have a “recommendation” from the AG liaisons office at our justice academy. Their recommendations at times have been known to hold no bearing on real world so I wanted to get some opinions from officers that are likely to encounter this situation.

    Vehicle stop scenario

    Here’s the set up, you are stopping a vehicle (license check, DUI checkpoint, minor infraction, etc) that has multiple passengers along with the driver. One or more of the passengers have legally permitted concealed handguns. The driver is not armed and the driver also has no prior knowledge of the concealed weapon status of the passengers.

    Here in NC we have the requirement to notify LE that we are carrying when approached or addressed.

    First, when do you want to be notified of the passengers armed status? As soon as you address the driver? Wait till you address the individual passengers? Not at all if you only talk to the driver? Other?

    Second what would be the perfect way for this to play out for you? Passengers notify the driver that they need to talk to the officer as soon as approached and let the driver handle it? Have the passenger address the approaching officer and inform? Wait till addressed individually?

    I teach the answer that the AG liaisons provide but nothing says I can’t also include real world answers that may keep some of the more high strung students from getting into deep yogurt when they do get stopped.

    Thanks for any input and sorry to be so long winded.

  2. #2
    berserk is offline The reason they do psych evals
    Verified LEO
    Join Date
    11-24-08
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    749
    Blog Entries
    9
    Rep Power
    603397
    I don't know where NC draws the line as to whether or not notification is required, but I wouldn't be offended if the passengers never mentioned it to me (as long as they don't do anything stupid with the guns, of course). If they are required to pipe up, then a simple "excuse me, officer" while I'm talking to the driver would be just fine. If they are going to say something, then earlier in the encounter is better.

  3. #3
    Five-0's Avatar
    Five-0 is offline Super Moderator
    Premium Lifetime Member
    Verified LEO
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    05-15-06
    Posts
    10,982
    Rep Power
    8357019
    For starters, good question.

    I have a personal problem with anyone in my personal vehicle being armed without my knowledge. To say that it is illegal to do so would not be correct. I personally let anyone that I am traveling with know that I am armed. I do this out of respect. Then again, anyone that knows me knows this already. To draw a comparison I have a problem with anyone carrying anything illegal in my vehicle such as a dime bag of MJ. This has not happened but it would be a lot easier to conceal than a handgun and the reaction you would get from me given your scenario would be similar. The difference is MJ can't kill me. One item, the MJ, would get you arrested. Being arrested is not a permanent outcome. The other legal items, ie the handguns, are a different matter. An avoidable permanent outcome is a possibility. Read a possibility not a certainty.

    I have been in the scenario that you mention. I have always let an officer know of my armed status, with my hands clearly in view. It was always done with respect. Never was it ever met with anything less than respect shown in kind. I was IDed, asked for my permit, and asked where the weapon(s) was/were located. Laws vary from state to state on where a firearm is located and the need for a permit. Respect and avoiding the possibility of permanent outcomes behooves any legally armed citizen to notify an officer of his/her status under the circumstances you described (a legal stop).

    A car full of legally armed people, that have notified me of such, and that are showing no evidence of any other illegal activity outside of the minor traffic offense = "Thank you for your cooperation. Be careful of XYZ violaton, and you all have a safe night."

    Bottom line. Anyone in control of a vehicle needs to know who and what is in their vehicle. PERIOD. If a passenger pushes his dime bag of MJ under a seat and I or a K9 get nose of it.....someone or everyone in that car is going to jail. I will find the guns then. That MJ voids any concealed carry permit in my state. If those weapons become an issue while this is happening the possibility of one of those permanent outcomes goes up faster than the national debt.

    Notify officers of weapons with hands in view.
    Keep your hands in the open.
    If you want respect, give respect. (I personally am as courteous as people will let me be.)

    Meanwhile, fishing in Russia:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkzV5AIK8iM
    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." -- Frederic Bastiat

    "Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter." Ernest Hemingway

    The opinions given in my signatures & threads DO NOT reflect the opinions, views, policies, and/or procedures of my employing agency. They are my personal opinions only, thereby releasing my agency of any liability, or involvement in anything posted under the username "Five-0" on Officerresource.com

  4. #4
    berserk is offline The reason they do psych evals
    Verified LEO
    Join Date
    11-24-08
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    749
    Blog Entries
    9
    Rep Power
    603397
    Quote Originally Posted by Five-0 View Post
    I have a personal problem with anyone in my personal vehicle being armed without my knowledge.
    I have a problem with anyone in my personal vehicle being unarmed without my knowledge.

  5. #5
    Five-0's Avatar
    Five-0 is offline Super Moderator
    Premium Lifetime Member
    Verified LEO
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    05-15-06
    Posts
    10,982
    Rep Power
    8357019
    Quote Originally Posted by berserk View Post
    I have a problem with anyone in my personal vehicle being unarmed without my knowledge.
    Roger, this applies to people that I am not as familiar with. Friends of friends and the like. Particulary friends of friends that think having a legal gun means they know how to handle a gun.

    Meanwhile, fishing in Russia:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkzV5AIK8iM
    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." -- Frederic Bastiat

    "Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter." Ernest Hemingway

    The opinions given in my signatures & threads DO NOT reflect the opinions, views, policies, and/or procedures of my employing agency. They are my personal opinions only, thereby releasing my agency of any liability, or involvement in anything posted under the username "Five-0" on Officerresource.com

  6. #6
    NC Bullseye's Avatar
    NC Bullseye is offline Officer First Class
    Join Date
    01-20-10
    Posts
    61
    Rep Power
    48079
    Thanks for the responses and looking forward to some more.

  7. #7
    MacLean's Avatar
    MacLean is offline O/R Gun mod
    Verified LEO
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    09-05-07
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    11,803
    Rep Power
    4584773
    Your laws are different. There is no requirement here, but the polite accepted method is to notify the officer upon contact and follow directions.
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


    I was looking for a saint who was a devil of a lover,
    but every girl I found was either one way or the other...



  8. #8
    NC Bullseye's Avatar
    NC Bullseye is offline Officer First Class
    Join Date
    01-20-10
    Posts
    61
    Rep Power
    48079
    Quote Originally Posted by maclean View Post
    Your laws are different. There is no requirement here, but the polite accepted method is to notify the officer upon contact and follow directions.
    Exactly what is taught here, but the primary reason for the question was the portion about the passengers. How do they notify without being "pushy" and when?

    Thanks again for the input!

  9. #9
    MacLean's Avatar
    MacLean is offline O/R Gun mod
    Verified LEO
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    09-05-07
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    11,803
    Rep Power
    4584773
    Quote Originally Posted by NC Bullseye View Post
    Exactly what is taught here, but the primary reason for the question was the portion about the passengers. How do they notify without being "pushy" and when?

    Thanks again for the input!
    Although I'd like for the passenger to be forthright, I'd settle for being told if I inquire of the passenger.

    Otherwise, if he or she keeps their hands visible and doesn't do anything stupid, no reason to be worried.
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


    I was looking for a saint who was a devil of a lover,
    but every girl I found was either one way or the other...



 

 

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •