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  1. #1
    jmur5074's Avatar
    jmur5074 is offline Moderator
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    Traffic enforcement and changing behaviors

    Do you think traffic warnings are an effective way to change a persons behavior? Do you think citations are a more effective way to change behavior? Or do you think citations are just a punishment and don't have any bearing on a person's behavior?
    No one has greater love than this, to lay down ones life for ones friends - John 15:13

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  2. #2
    Captain America's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmur5074 View Post
    Do you think traffic warnings are an effective way to change a persons behavior? Do you think citations are a more effective way to change behavior? Or do you think citations are just a punishment and don't have any bearing on a person's behavior?

    I think it really depends on the person. Some people will be thankful for the warning and strive to drive safely(at least for a while). Some people it takes the citation and the finiancial pentalties that go with it such as the fines and higher insurance rates. Then there is the segment of the population that is not going to change no matter what punishment is given to them.
    SI VIS PACEM PARA BELLUM

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  3. #3
    Five-0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    I think it really depends on the person. Some people will be thankful for the warning and strive to drive safely(at least for a while). Some people it takes the citation and the finiancial pentalties that go with it such as the fines and higher insurance rates. Then there is the segment of the population that is not going to change no matter what punishment is giving them.


    Agree. I have given warnings for my locals in a small town that I am contracted out to, and they have paid off. I tell the older folks that they have been driving the streets of their town longer than I have been alive and I have more respect for their neighbors than they do. That little jab at their pride has made them drive better, and they remember to let me know about anything they see that is off in their town. That gets me dope. Now in the more urban areas of the county it is usually tickets because I usually find a bad attitude driving. Unless you are 15 or more over the limit or driving with your head up your a$$ the decision is made by the driver during the contact. To get respect and a warning you need to show respect. That and not be doing anything else wrong like being suspended or not have insurance. I will warn one little ooops but not two.

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  4. #4
    petebroccolo is offline Rookie
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    I have almost 34 years of field experience, all in uniform and have been on Traffic Services for 8+ years now. When I was on General Duties, a lot of my "traffic" enforcement was warnings, except for Impaired Driving (been an ASD / PBT user since 1979, a Breathalyzer 900 / 900A Technician since 1980, a Breath Tech Senior Field Tech / Assistant Instructor on new User Course from 1992 to 2005, an ASD / PBT User Instructor since 1993, an Intoxilyzer 5000C Tech / Operator since 2002 and newly minted as an Intoximeters Inc Intox EC / IR II Tech / Operator last month).

    My Unit follows the guidelines of a Canadian Federal Government initiative called "Road Safety Vision 2010" where, having started in 2001, we hope that Canada will have the safest roads in the world by the end of 2010. Our goals are to reduce deaths, injuries and dollar loss due to collisions by targetting: Impaired Driving, Seat Belt, Aggressive / High Risk (unlicenced / suspended / disqualified / prohibited drivers, unregistered / uninsured vehicles, lane discipline, stunting / dangerous driving), Intersection Control and Unsafe Speed violations plus Criminal Interdiction.

    Given Unsafe Speed's position in that hierarchy, my Unit does not do a lot of Radar, Laser nor timed (ground or air) speed enforcement. I personally use a tolerance of up to 130% of the limit, no matter what that limit is. However, in Canada, our Supreme Court has ruled that it is the common-law expectation by the public that the police will stop ANY vehicle and driver ANY time ANY where to check that the driver's licence is valid, the vehicle's registration is valid and that the driver is sober enough to legally drive, and that we will deal with other matters that flow from those investigative efforts.

    Basically, I follow the above and use them to the fullest:
    - No DL, or DL suspended, disqualified or prohibited? Provincial (kind-of-like a State, non-criminal) Ticket, or Criminal release, for Court plus impound the vehicle;
    - Impaired / BAC > / Refuse Breath or Blood Tests? 91 day immediate DL suspension, impound the vehicle, print, photo & release for Criminal Court;
    - No seat belt? Ticket;
    - Stop sign / red light violation? On video, issue Ticket;
    - Speeding? Unless exceeding 130% of the limit, may not even bother stopping;
    - Equipment violation? If noted during Impaired, Stop Sign and / or Seat Belt violation investigation, may verbally advise to correct, or include in impound report to review board;
    - Unregistered / unlicenced / uninsured vehicle? Ticket and impound.

    Mind you, this is ALL I am supposed to do. My Unit takes no non-traffic related calls and only handles collision scenes until the General Duty members take over, but WILL deal with any Impaired Drivers from same while the GD gals / guys work the scene.

    Bottom line, do what your Supervisor or Chief says to do, and what works for you.

  5. #5
    Car 4's Avatar
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    Your Supreme Court apparently has more of a sense of humor than does ours. We have a little thing called the Fourth Amendment that drives how and when we can "Seize" someone by stopping their car.

    Lots of laughs down here, mate. Gotta figure out how to beat the crooks AND beat the Supreme Court.


    Car 4
    I would like my country back. I used to believe that one man could never destroy this country. Not so sure anymore!

  6. #6
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    Same here car 4. I can stop you just to check you're documents.
    If the car is even on the road I can knock your door and request proof of insurance and yearly inspection. It never happens, or rarely, but I could do it.

    I think after a while you get to judge if a warning will suffice, but to be honest if I'm stopping you it's probably because you have exceeded the warning tolerance.

    As I work on the motorway a warning will often be by way of "the trafffic man stare". Thats if they will look at you! ever noticed that, "if I don't look at the policeman he won't see me" moment.

    Seat belt, or lack thereof, excess speed( + 20mph on limit), talking/ texting on the mobile phone, all generally get tickets. No insurance or licence, ticket or court plus you lose your vehicle(150 removal fee plus 20 storage every 24 hrs until you prove you are insured/licensed)

    Drive whilst disqualified or over legal intox limit is immediate arrest and temporary loss of car.
    the sole advantage of power is that you can do more good.
    ( Baltasar Gracian )

  7. #7
    Jks9199 is offline The Reason People Hate Cops & Causer of War
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    Many states or localities still have a section like this:
    46.2-103. Stopping vehicles for inspection or to secure information.
    Except as prohibited by 19.2-59, on his request or signal, any law-enforcement officer who is in uniform or displays his badge or other sign of authority may:
    1. Stop any motor vehicle, trailer, or semitrailer to inspect its equipment, operation, manufacturer's serial or engine number; or
    2. Stop any property-carrying motor vehicle, trailer, or semitrailer to inspect its contents or load or to obtain other necessary information.
    (Code 1950, 46-16; 1958, c. 541, 46.1-8; 1989, c. 727.)
    from Virginia.

    However... multiple rulings have said that we must have at least a reasonable suspicion of some illegal activity before we can stop a car. In fact, in Virginia, we have a number of offenses that we cannot stop a person for -- but only enforce when they're stopped for something else. (Like adult seatbelt laws.)
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  8. #8
    Cidp24's Avatar
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    I agree with the Captain regarding effectiveness. I never wrote a cite unless the violation was obviously intentional, dangerous, or if I was given attitude. I always tried to use the opportunity to leave a good impression for my department and police in general. A lot of officers don't agree with me on this but I learned it from my dad and it's just the way I always worked.
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  9. #9
    lewisipso's Avatar
    lewisipso is offline Injustice/Indifference/In God we trust
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    Agreed^^
    Do not war for peace. If you must war, war for justice. For without justice there is no peace. -me

    We are who we choose to be.

    R.I.P. Arielle. 08/20/2010-09/16/2012


  10. #10
    ChesCopPodz's Avatar
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    In my traffic enforcement, it depends on what Im doing. When I run radar, I dont give warnings unless its an emergency situation. I will however always give the driver a break of some sort, provided they are cooperative and at least polite. Either reducing the speed and fine on the ticket and/or not writing for another violation. If I stop a car for speeding, they get a speeding ticket. However my threshold for stopping a car is 15mph over, so they have to be going pretty fast to get stopped.

    For violations I come acroo while on patrol, I usually find a paperwork or equipment violation to write instead, unless its a really dangerous violation.

    When I'm in interdiction mode, I stop for every violation I see trying to find something big. I dont write any of them for the minor violations I stop them for, unless it turns into something big.

    In all honesty, I believe that people won't truly change their driving behavior until they start getting hit in the pocketbook a few times. Some may alter their driving for a short time with a warning, but it won't last too long.
    The world would be much cleaner if blind people carried brooms instead of sticks.

    At communion, when the priest says "Body of Christ", I say "Thanks, I've been working out", then I grab the cracker and run back to my seat

    An amateur practices until he gets it right. A professional practices until he cant get it wrong.

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  11. #11
    petebroccolo is offline Rookie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Car 4 View Post
    Your Supreme Court apparently has more of a sense of humor than does ours. We have a little thing called the Fourth Amendment that drives how and when we can "Seize" someone by stopping their car.

    Lots of laughs down here, mate. Gotta figure out how to beat the crooks AND beat the Supreme Court.

    Car 4
    Yeah, our Charter of Rights and Freedoms and jurisprudence did not develop QUITE along the same path as our USA neighbours - we were founded on the principles of "Peace, Order and Good Government" as opposed to "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Freedom".

    The SCC, however, did acknowledge that DL, regis & sobriety checks, including the barring of a "client" from being able to contact Counsel first before compliance with a PO's demand to submit to an ASD (PBT), DOES violate a person's basic rights, BUT, when balanced against the greater good for society as a whole to deter, prevent and develop evidence to prosecute such offences, the imposition is so minor and fleeting that it is acceptable.

    What can I say? That's what life is like this side of the Juan de Fuca Strait / 49th parallel / centre line of the Great Lakes / NY-to-Eastern-Seaboard+Gaspe-to-Nova-Scotia invisible line.

  12. #12
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    I run radar twice a day in the school zone. 5 or more over in the school zone gets you a cite. If your doing 41, you get it for 41. I don't reduce speeds on cites as I did this before and I ended up getting F'ed over by the people I gave a break too. 4 over in the school zone, I may or may not stop them and they may or may not get a cite. 3 over or less I don't bother with them. If I'm running radar at any other time usually 5 over gets you stopped 7 or more over lands you a cite.

    We are always respectful and professional when conducting traffic stops. I'v had more compliments about being polite and professional than I can count. My officers do the same.
    Just because your sign off after you're shift is done, doesn't mean that it's over and put blinders on. You're a cop 24/7 wether you like it or not. If thats something you can't handle, you should find a new line of work!

  13. #13
    ChesCopPodz's Avatar
    ChesCopPodz is offline Wandering son
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapper_132 View Post
    I run radar twice a day in the school zone. 5 or more over in the school zone gets you a cite. If your doing 41, you get it for 41. I don't reduce speeds on cites as I did this before and I ended up getting F'ed over by the people I gave a break too. 4 over in the school zone, I may or may not stop them and they may or may not get a cite. 3 over or less I don't bother with them. If I'm running radar at any other time usually 5 over gets you stopped 7 or more over lands you a cite.

    We are always respectful and professional when conducting traffic stops. I'v had more compliments about being polite and professional than I can count. My officers do the same.
    I didn't reduce the speed at all in Virginia for the same reason. However on the city tickets here, there are a number of pre-printed violations that you just check off. For the speeding violation, after the statute number, it reads "Travelling __ mph in a posted __ mph zone. Actual speed __ mph" then there are boxes marked "construction" and "School zone", which double the fine. It gives us the space to reduce the speed on the charge, and still let the DA know how fast they were going.
    The world would be much cleaner if blind people carried brooms instead of sticks.

    At communion, when the priest says "Body of Christ", I say "Thanks, I've been working out", then I grab the cracker and run back to my seat

    An amateur practices until he gets it right. A professional practices until he cant get it wrong.

    They've got us surrounded? Good. Now we can fire in any direction. Those bastards won't get away this time.

 

 

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