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  1. #1
    raminator157's Avatar
    raminator157 is offline Volunteer Firefighter
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    Failed Inspection

    Hello

    My name is Matt of Essex Jct VT 05452. I am a Volunteer firefighter with a Valid Red Light Permit. I was denied an inspection sticker for the following reason. The Auto shop said that I am not allowed to have any colored lights underneath my truck. I have red L.E.D Underglo lights underneath my truck. I only use them when responding to an emergancy call, along with my other red lights and siren.

    I emailed the DMV and they responded with this

    In section CAR 5.2 of the Vermont Periodic Inspection Manual, which licensed inspection stations use as a guide when conducting an annual safety equipment inspection, a reason to reject a vehicle for inspection is if the vehicle has, “Auxiliary or after-market undercarriage glow light(s) placed on or under the vehicle, whether flashing or steady burning.”
    The inspection station was correct in denying the inspection.
    I still do not think this is right. I only use them for emergancy response. What do you guys think? What can i do to fight this?

    Thanks

    Matt

  2. #2
    121Traffic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raminator157 View Post
    Hello

    My name is Matt of Essex Jct VT 05452. I am a Volunteer firefighter with a Valid Red Light Permit. I was denied an inspection sticker for the following reason. The Auto shop said that I am not allowed to have any colored lights underneath my truck. I have red L.E.D Underglo lights underneath my truck. I only use them when responding to an emergancy call, along with my other red lights and siren.

    I emailed the DMV and they responded with this



    I still do not think this is right. I only use them for emergancy response. What do you guys think? What can i do to fight this?

    Thanks

    Matt
    Not to call you out here, but, well, I'm going to call you out. I understand your volly FF, etc. What possible purpose, however, does undercarriage lighting have in an emergency situation while responding emergent? You can't tell me that the lights are useful. Just because you are allowed certain exemptions to state law for having forward flashing red lights doesn't mean you can put whatever kinds of lights you want on your call and claim they are for your volly FF job. That's a shade ridiculous. What can you do to fight it? Uhh, you got a "hell no" from the DMV. Not much i would think.
    "If anything worthwhile comes of this tragedy, it should be the realization by every citizen that often the only thing that stands between them and losing everything they hold dear... is the man wearing a badge." -- Ronald Reagan, in the wake of the deaths of 4 CHP troopers in the Newhall Incident, 1970

    The opinions given in my posts DO NOT reflect the opinions, views, policies, and/or procedures of my employing agency. They are my personal opinions only, thereby releasing my agency of any liability, or involvement in anything posted under the username "121Traffic" on O/R.

  3. #3
    raminator157's Avatar
    raminator157 is offline Volunteer Firefighter
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    I bought the lights because I respond direct the scene. It does add some extra warning around my vehicle. If I have to take them off, I will. Your response could of been a little more nice.

  4. #4
    121Traffic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raminator157 View Post
    I bought the lights because I respond direct the scene. It does add some extra warning around my vehicle.
    I respond to scenes too. Probably more in a day than most vollys do in a week, no offense intended. Never have I heard of a police car, marked or not, using undercarriage lighting as an emergency lighting system. Probably because there are so many other viable systems out there that AREN'T in direct contradiction to existing laws. Consider in-cabin side flashers. If you're talking about visibility, also consider credibility. Answer me this: why did you put the undercarriage lighting in? Don't even BS me and tell me it's only for emergency use. Have you EVER used the under-lights for non emergency purposes, even for stationary car shows, etc?

    If I have to take them off, I will. Your response could of been a little more nice.
    Fair enough. But you had better grow some thick skin if you think I was being mean. I'm not in the business of telling people how to skirt laws. You posted the statute from your state that specifically prohibits your use of the lights you described. You posted how the inspector would not sign off on your vehicle, and rightly so. You posted the response from the actual DMV. Then you ask me how to skirt the law or fight it? How is this akin to some random Joe coming in here and asking my advice on how to get out of a speeding ticket? Hell, even if a cop came in here and wanted advice on how to "get away" with a particular law violation, we'd dress him down a LOT worse than what you got. Sorry guy, not a lot of sympathy here, and I suspect you're not going to find a lot of kindly answers to that type of question on this site.
    "If anything worthwhile comes of this tragedy, it should be the realization by every citizen that often the only thing that stands between them and losing everything they hold dear... is the man wearing a badge." -- Ronald Reagan, in the wake of the deaths of 4 CHP troopers in the Newhall Incident, 1970

    The opinions given in my posts DO NOT reflect the opinions, views, policies, and/or procedures of my employing agency. They are my personal opinions only, thereby releasing my agency of any liability, or involvement in anything posted under the username "121Traffic" on O/R.

  5. #5
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    Rather than underneath, what about in the grill? That's more visible. If you can't move them up, remove them for the inspection and then put them back on.
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    What kind of vehicle are the lights on? A pic minus anything to identify you would help

  7. #7
    raminator157's Avatar
    raminator157 is offline Volunteer Firefighter
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    I am very sorry I even came to this site for advice.

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    Well, drive safety.

  9. #9
    121Traffic's Avatar
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    Listen man. I'm sorry if I'm coming off sort of harsh here, but it's been a long and tiring day. I don't like being the reason people run off. I'm not going to beg you to stay, but I hope you reconsider. But really, honestly ask yourself what you're looking for here. A way to skirt the law that's just going to get you into trouble. You said it yourself...it's against a statute that you just don't personally agree with. There are a lot of statutes that I don't agree with, but I have to enforce them fairly and impartially. You're really pushing hard here and are wanting to do something that just isn't plain legal, and anything you do to "get around" the law is at your own risk. And I for one am not going to give you the advice to do so. Think about it...you're a public servant. Just like cops get burned all the time for not obeying the laws they are sworn to uphold, what entitles you to violate ordinance just because you can display red lights? Not trying to bust your hump here, but you have a public trust to uphold too, and the sooner you realize that, the less trouble you have the potential to be in. I just hate seeing badges, copper or hosedragger, getting drug through the mud because they do something foolish.
    "If anything worthwhile comes of this tragedy, it should be the realization by every citizen that often the only thing that stands between them and losing everything they hold dear... is the man wearing a badge." -- Ronald Reagan, in the wake of the deaths of 4 CHP troopers in the Newhall Incident, 1970

    The opinions given in my posts DO NOT reflect the opinions, views, policies, and/or procedures of my employing agency. They are my personal opinions only, thereby releasing my agency of any liability, or involvement in anything posted under the username "121Traffic" on O/R.

  10. #10
    raminator157's Avatar
    raminator157 is offline Volunteer Firefighter
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    Thank you. I did not come here to try and go around the law. Would rather like to have it changed. I am not some kid with lights. I have been fireifghting for 10 years. I did not purchase the lights for a car show. I NEVER use them while driving down the road. I bought them because they do add some visbility around my vehicle. They show up extra good when snow is on the ground.


    Quote Originally Posted by 121Traffic View Post
    Listen man. I'm sorry if I'm coming off sort of harsh here, but it's been a long and tiring day. I don't like being the reason people run off. I'm not going to beg you to stay, but I hope you reconsider. But really, honestly ask yourself what you're looking for here. A way to skirt the law that's just going to get you into trouble. You said it yourself...it's against a statute that you just don't personally agree with. There are a lot of statutes that I don't agree with, but I have to enforce them fairly and impartially. You're really pushing hard here and are wanting to do something that just isn't plain legal, and anything you do to "get around" the law is at your own risk. And I for one am not going to give you the advice to do so.

  11. #11
    raminator157's Avatar
    raminator157 is offline Volunteer Firefighter
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    They are on a Dodge Ram. Would rather not post any pictures at this time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Five-0 View Post
    What kind of vehicle are the lights on? A pic minus anything to identify you would help

  12. #12
    121Traffic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raminator157 View Post
    Thank you. I did not come here to try and go around the law. Would rather like to have it changed. I am not some kid with lights. I have been fireifghting for 10 years. I did not purchase the lights for a car show. I NEVER use them while driving down the road. I bought them because they do add some visbility around my vehicle. They show up extra good when snow is on the ground.
    Well then THAT is something I can get behind. I am all for people exercising civic responsibility and contacting their legislators about laws they don't agree with. If that wasn't your intention to skirt the law, then I apologize. But as far as changing the law, if it's in state statute, that is something to start writing to your reps about. I'll concede that against the snow would probably be a pretty good amount of light. Are they flashing or steady? Don't have much in the way of advice other than to contact your lawmakers, but you already know that. Good luck.

    Oh, and welcome to OR! Like I said...exhausting day.
    "If anything worthwhile comes of this tragedy, it should be the realization by every citizen that often the only thing that stands between them and losing everything they hold dear... is the man wearing a badge." -- Ronald Reagan, in the wake of the deaths of 4 CHP troopers in the Newhall Incident, 1970

    The opinions given in my posts DO NOT reflect the opinions, views, policies, and/or procedures of my employing agency. They are my personal opinions only, thereby releasing my agency of any liability, or involvement in anything posted under the username "121Traffic" on O/R.

  13. #13
    raminator157's Avatar
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    They came with 16 different flash patterns. Iam glad that we could come together on this. They do look very good in the snow. Trust me, I didn't buy for show, like those teenangers with those little suped up cars.

    Quote Originally Posted by 121Traffic View Post
    Well then THAT is something I can get behind. I am all for people exercising civic responsibility and contacting their legislators about laws they don't agree with. If that wasn't your intention to skirt the law, then I apologize. But as far as changing the law, if it's in state statute, that is something to start writing to your reps about. I'll concede that against the snow would probably be a pretty good amount of light. Are they flashing or steady? Don't have much in the way of advice other than to contact your lawmakers, but you already know that. Good luck.

    Oh, and welcome to OR! Like I said...exhausting day.

  14. #14
    Xiphos's Avatar
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    You're getting a no-shitter here about this. Nobody's picking on you. You asked for opinions and you got them, very honest ones. Sorry if you don't like them.

    Think about the answers you got here and reconsider your placement. I lived in Colchester for a few years and never saw a police car or fire truck with under carriage lights. You may like the way it looks and the visibility it offers on snow but there are other ways to legally place the lights that offer good solutions.

    Put the lights somewhere else and get the truck inspected. Lobby your legislature to get the law changed in the meantime and legally put them there when you are allowed.
    Pleasing nobody, one person at a time.

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  15. #15
    raminator157's Avatar
    raminator157 is offline Volunteer Firefighter
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    Will do. Are you still in Vermont?

    Quote Originally Posted by Xiphos View Post
    You're getting a no-shitter here about this. Nobody's picking on you. You asked for opinions and you got them, very honest ones. Sorry if you don't like them.

    Think about the answers you got here and reconsider your placement. I lived in Colchester for a few years and never saw a police car or fire truck with under carriage lights. You may like the way it looks and the visibility it offers on snow but there are other ways to legally place the lights that offer good solutions.

    Put the lights somewhere else and get the truck inspected. Lobby your legislature to get the law changed in the meantime and legally put them there when you are allowed.

  16. #16
    Xiphos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raminator157 View Post
    Will do. Are you still in Vermont?
    I've been gone for many years (flatlander.) Loved it though, it's a beautiful area!
    Pleasing nobody, one person at a time.

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    If I lived every day like it was my last, the body count would be staggering.

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    It's already been said multiple times, but move the lights. Unless there's snow on the ground year round, what's the point in putting them on the under carriage? Even though you think having them down there offers great visibility, putting them higher would offer even greater visibility (on any vehicle, no doubt about it).


    Do they HAVE to be mounted on the under carriage or is that where you chose to mount them?
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  18. #18
    raminator157's Avatar
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    They have to be mounted there. I am guessing I can mount them just about anywhere with the proper modifications. but they are long thin strips. So might be hard. But after listening to alot of the opinions and comments. I am going to be removing the lights to obey the law.


    Quote Originally Posted by jmur5074 View Post
    It's already been said multiple times, but move the lights. Unless there's snow on the ground year round, what's the point in putting them on the under carriage? Even though you think having them down there offers great visibility, putting them higher would offer even greater visibility (on any vehicle, no doubt about it).


    Do they HAVE to be mounted on the under carriage or is that where you chose to mount them?

  19. #19
    Jks9199 is offline The Reason People Hate Cops & Causer of War
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    Quote Originally Posted by raminator157 View Post
    I bought the lights because I respond direct the scene. It does add some extra warning around my vehicle. If I have to take them off, I will. Your response could of been a little more nice.
    And you could have taken the response quoting your state code, from the authority that regulates inspections, at face value. Your undercarriage lights are illegal, and you'll continue to fail inspections as long as you insist on having them.

    I've got an issue with vollies running hot to fire calls in their POVs as a general principle. Do you have a siren? Does your POV meet all the definitions of an emergency vehicle? Are you trained to operate an emergency vehicle? Do you carry your turnouts and other necessary gear for response in your car? I ask because I know of vollies who couldn't answer affirmatively to most of those questions -- yet they'll drive like a madman to get to a call, and have to stand there like an idiot until whoever bothered to go to the firehouse brings the truck and gear. And that's not considering the danger they put people in as they respond.

    I understand the reasoning and purpose for vollies to respond directly to a fire call. But, in a lot of the US, it's a different place than it was even 30 years ago... and if I were a fire chief, I don't think I'd be signing for the liability involved in a barely trained EVOC driver running hot in their POV.
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  20. #20
    Xiphos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jks9199 View Post
    And you could have taken the response quoting your state code, from the authority that regulates inspections, at face value. Your undercarriage lights are illegal, and you'll continue to fail inspections as long as you insist on having them.

    I've got an issue with vollies running hot to fire calls in their POVs as a general principle. Do you have a siren? Does your POV meet all the definitions of an emergency vehicle? Are you trained to operate an emergency vehicle? Do you carry your turnouts and other necessary gear for response in your car? I ask because I know of vollies who couldn't answer affirmatively to most of those questions -- yet they'll drive like a madman to get to a call, and have to stand there like an idiot until whoever bothered to go to the firehouse brings the truck and gear.
    There's a huge difference up there from down down our way. It's pretty routine and common for vollies to run to calls up there. I never saw them driving really crazy though.
    Pleasing nobody, one person at a time.

    That which does not kill me, better start fucking running.

    If I lived every day like it was my last, the body count would be staggering.

    I intend to go in harm's way. -John Paul Jones

    Hunt the wolf, and bring light to the dark places that others fear to go. LT COL Dave Grossman

 

 
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