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  1. #1
    Kymmie2453 is offline CJ Student
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    Criminal offences

    Here is the scenario I was given.

    You have been asked to write an explanation of probable cause, for training purposes, using the following incident as an example:

    At about 1:30 a.m. there is emergency radio traffic from dispatch that the GoBuy Mart at the corner of Halsted and Magnolia Streets was just robbed at gunpoint by an unknown male, approximately 5 feet 8 inches tall wearing a mask and a black sweatshirt. The suspect was seen leaving the area in a red late-model 2-door Mustang.

    Sgt. Smith and I are close in the area, and Sgt. Smith quickly turns onto Maple Avenue, which intersects with Magnolia Street. He advises that many suspects flee in this direction and ditch their vehicles (often, these vehicles were stolen). As Sgt Smith and I approach the intersection, we both spot a vehicle matching the suspect’s vehicle racing down Magnolia Street. Sgt. Smith advises dispatch that the vehicle is insight and activates the emergency lights. The vehicle quickly speeds up in an apparent attempt to elude arrest. About one minute (1.3 miles) later, the vehicle loses control and runs into a telephone pole. The suspect crawls from the car and attempts to run away. Sgt. Smith pulls close with the patrol car and jumps out, ordering the suspect to 'Stop!' The suspect drops what appears to be a cut cigar tube on the ground.

    Sgt. Smith quickly catches up to the injured suspect, and the suspect turns around, holding what appears to be a small caliber revolver. Sgt. Smith hits him with such force that the gun falls to the ground. The suspect hits Sgt. Smith with a closed fist to the face and is quickly handcuffed by Sgt. Smith with my assistance. Sgt. Jones, bleeding from his nose, takes the suspect to the car. I pick up the firearm and the cut cigar tube.

    The suspect, a Mr. Simon Simms (White Male, DOB 1-1-1986) is on felony probation and has two previous armed robbery convictions. I order Sgt. Smith to go to the hospital to take care of his obviously broken nose (bent to the side).

    Please answer the following questions to guide you in the composition of your 6-8 page paper on probable cause for this case. Please justify all answers with academic or real-life empirical practical criminal justice examples. Please use APA style formatting for cited sources.

    I have omitted the questions because I have all but the following information. I would appreciate it if you could assist me with determining the offences.

    The offences I have come up with for my probable cause statement are:
    eluding police
    reckless driving
    assault on an officer
    resisting arrest
    Armed robbery

    Thanks again for your input!
    Kymberlee
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  2. #2
    lewisipso's Avatar
    lewisipso is offline Injustice/Indifference/In God we trust
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    You have quite the little project on your hands. I personally need to explain 2 things. One there is no clarification on the "cut cigar tube". Do you know what the significance of it was or was it left that way for a reason? Second you have to understand that definitions of state, county/parish, and municipal ordinances differ from your local and mine, as well as others. As an example the broken nose of the officer would not be considered an assault here. It would be considered the low side of a second degree battery.

    §34.1. Second degree battery

    A. Second degree battery is a battery when the offender intentionally inflicts serious bodily injury; however, this provision shall not apply to a medical provider who has obtained the consent of a patient.

    B. For purposes of this Section, "serious bodily injury" means bodily injury which involves unconsciousness, extreme physical pain or protracted and obvious disfigurement, or protracted loss or impairment of the function of a bodily member, organ, or mental faculty, or a substantial risk of death.

    C. Whoever commits the crime of second degree battery shall be fined not more than two thousand dollars or imprisoned, with or without hard labor, for not more than five years, or both.

    Acts 1978, No. 394, §1; Acts 2009, No. 264, §1.


    In a broad view of the above scenario it would appear you have the basics covered. The only thing that you may want to investigate further is if the patrol officers in your scenario would have the ability to charge for a probation violation. I haven't heard of that as a rule since it is usually the job of a probation and parole agent but it may be worth looking into.
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  3. #3
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    Car 4 is offline CID Chief
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    In Washington State, you would be looking at the following:

    Pointed weapon=1st Degree Assault on a Police Officer
    Stick up= 1st Degree Armed Robbery
    Gun= Felon in Possession of a firearm
    Chase=Felony Eluding


    The rest are misdemeanors and would not be charged as a matter of policy. At sentencing he would get another 10 years for being armed during the commission of these Class A felonies.


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  4. #4
    Bob Loblaw's Avatar
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    what the hell were you doing while Sgt. Smith was kicking all those asses?!?!?!?

    In Oklahoma, we'd go with:
    Robbery I
    Attempting to Elude a PO
    Possession of a Firearm While in the Commission of a Felony
    Poss. of a Firearm After a Felony Conviction
    (The scenario wasn't clear...did the gun get pointed at the Offficer? Well, tack on "Feloniously Pointing a Firearm at Another")
    A&B on a PO (maybe go for Aggravated A&B, depending on how badly the Officer is hurt)
    Resisting Arrest

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  5. #5
    MacLean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Loblaw View Post
    what the hell were you doing while Sgt. Smith was kicking all those asses?!?!?!?

    LOL!
    I'm your huckleberry...

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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Loblaw View Post
    but all my bosses would care about is if my camera was on!

    Wow...if you'd have said...."and if the gps vehicle locate was working in the patrol car", I'd swear we work together.
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  7. #7
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    Around here this is what I would be looking to charge. Robbery (felony), felon in possession of a firearm(felony), felony eluding, resisting arrest, resisting arrest with violence (felony), assault with a deadly weapon on a peace officer (felony), battery on a peace officer with injury (felony), and depending on the cigar tube maybe possession of drug paraphernelia.
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  8. #8
    Kymmie2453 is offline CJ Student
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    Wow! You guys are great and it looks like I had most of this figured out! I'm just a little proud of my self! In considering the cut cigar tube, I'm assuming it is a reference to drugs. Would a LEO put in a probable cause statement that a possession charge is pending a controlled substance test? I'm not sure how that works.
    Also, the jurisdiction of these assignments is of my choosing. Usually i choose the one I can find the most information on. So in general, could I charge assault with a deadly weapon even if Mr. Simms did not hit Sgt. Smith with the weapon?
    It's not how you die that makes you a hero, it's how you live!

  9. #9
    Kymmie2453 is offline CJ Student
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    The only thing that you may want to investigate further is if the patrol officers in your scenario would have the ability to charge for a probation violation. I haven't heard of that as a rule since it is usually the job of a probation and parole agent but it may be worth looking into.[/QUOTE]

    Hmmm, I didn't realize that. So I would not add that charge in the probable cause form?
    It's not how you die that makes you a hero, it's how you live!

  10. #10
    MacLean's Avatar
    MacLean is offline O/R Gun mod
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kymmie2453 View Post
    Wow! You guys are great and it looks like I had most of this figured out! I'm just a little proud of my self! In considering the cut cigar tube, I'm assuming it is a reference to drugs. Would a LEO put in a probable cause statement that a possession charge is pending a controlled substance test? I'm not sure how that works.
    Also, the jurisdiction of these assignments is of my choosing. Usually i choose the one I can find the most information on. So in general, could I charge assault with a deadly weapon even if Mr. Simms did not hit Sgt. Smith with the weapon?
    Depending on your state.

    In some States assault is the intent and battery is the outcome, but in Washington State we dispense with that nonsense.

    Assault is the only crime we have, because the intent is the important issue not the outcome.

    We do not have battery, so if you "try" to assault someone the crime is the intent and your charge.

    Pointing a pistol is an assault 1.

    RCW 9A.36.011: Assault in the first degree.
    I'm your huckleberry...

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    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


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    but every girl I found was either one way or the other...



  11. #11
    Five-0's Avatar
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    If a gun was seen after all of this nonsense a coroner enroute to the scene would be a grand outcome.

    Here:

    Robbery 1st
    Assault 1st (upgraded due to a LEO being involved)
    Probration violation
    Felon in possession of a firearm
    If he is an ICE candidate he is looking at a min. 10 years fed time if drugs and a gun are in possession
    Attempting to elude x2
    Once for the vehicle pursuit
    and another for attempting to elude on foot after the fact.
    Reisisting arrest
    Jaywalking if he ran from the vehicle across a street outside of a crosswalk
    not to mention any traffic offenses i can find.

    My pen is mighter than the sword.

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  12. #12
    lewisipso's Avatar
    lewisipso is offline Injustice/Indifference/In God we trust
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    In considering the cut cigar tube, I'm assuming it is a reference to drugs. Would a LEO put in a probable cause statement that a possession charge is pending a controlled substance test? I'm not sure how that works.
    In your scenario it would seem that the cigar tube was put in to confuse you. Since you have no other information concerning the tube I do not believe you should add anything about it. In the real world the tube would have been examined for content and use. If substantial narcotic content were found it would be evidenced and the person charged with possession and possibly intent to distribute whatever the narcotic was. If no substantial narcotic were present the tube would be examined for residual content of any narcotic and the person charged accordingly. Here residue is enough to be considered for possession. In either case the person would be charged accordingly and the evidence would be submitted to a lab for analysis.
    If the tube were nothing more than a tube or examination could not show it with any use it would be submitted with his property at the jail. What he does with a cut cigar tube is his business as long as it's legal.

    So in general, could I charge assault with a deadly weapon even if Mr. Simms did not hit Sgt. Smith with the weapon?
    Here.
    14:36. Assault defined

    Assault is an attempt to commit a battery, or the intentional placing of another in reasonable apprehension of receiving a battery.

    Acts 1978, No. 394, §1.

    Here, according to the above definition it would depend on your ability to articulate intent and apprehension. If you feel able to do so it would be...

    14:37. Aggravated assault

    A. Aggravated assault is an assault committed with a dangerous weapon.

    B. Whoever commits an aggravated assault shall be fined not more than one thousand dollars or imprisoned for not more than six months, or both.

    C. If the offense is committed upon a store's or merchant's employee while the offender is engaged in the perpetration or attempted perpetration of theft of goods, the offender shall be imprisoned for not less than one hundred twenty days without benefit of suspension of sentence nor more than six months and may be fined not more than one thousand dollars.

    Acts 1978, No. 394, §1; Acts 1992, No. 985, §1.

    The unfortunate thing is that here in Louisiana any assault charge with a firearm, unless you discharge it, is a misdemeanor.
    Do not war for peace. If you must war, war for justice. For without justice there is no peace. -me

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  13. #13
    lewisipso's Avatar
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    In considering the cut cigar tube, I'm assuming it is a reference to drugs. Would a LEO put in a probable cause statement that a possession charge is pending a controlled substance test? I'm not sure how that works.
    In your scenario it would seem that the cigar tube was put in to confuse you. Since you have no other information concerning the tube I do not believe you should add anything about it. In the real world the tube would have been examined for content and use. If substantial narcotic content were found it would be evidenced and the person charged with possession and possibly intent to distribute whatever the narcotic was. If no substantial narcotic were present the tube would be examined for residual content of any narcotic and the person charged accordingly. Here residue is enough to be considered for possession. In either case the person would be charged accordingly and the evidence would be submitted to a lab for analysis.
    If the tube were nothing more than a tube or examination could not show it with any use it would be submitted with his property at the jail. What he does with a cut cigar tube is his business as long as it's legal.

    So in general, could I charge assault with a deadly weapon even if Mr. Simms did not hit Sgt. Smith with the weapon?
    Here.
    14:36. Assault defined

    Assault is an attempt to commit a battery, or the intentional placing of another in reasonable apprehension of receiving a battery.

    Acts 1978, No. 394, §1.

    Here, according to the above definition it would depend on your ability to articulate intent and apprehension. If you feel able to do so it would be...

    14:37. Aggravated assault

    A. Aggravated assault is an assault committed with a dangerous weapon.

    B. Whoever commits an aggravated assault shall be fined not more than one thousand dollars or imprisoned for not more than six months, or both.

    C. If the offense is committed upon a store's or merchant's employee while the offender is engaged in the perpetration or attempted perpetration of theft of goods, the offender shall be imprisoned for not less than one hundred twenty days without benefit of suspension of sentence nor more than six months and may be fined not more than one thousand dollars.

    Acts 1978, No. 394, §1; Acts 1992, No. 985, §1.

    The unfortunate thing is that here in Louisiana any assault charge with a firearm, unless you discharge it, is a misdemeanor.
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  14. #14
    lewisipso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kymmie2453 View Post
    The only thing that you may want to investigate further is if the patrol officers in your scenario would have the ability to charge for a probation violation. I haven't heard of that as a rule since it is usually the job of a probation and parole agent but it may be worth looking into.
    Hmmm, I didn't realize that. So I would not add that charge in the probable cause form?
    I would not unless whatever jurisdiction you would apply to the scenario would allow field officers to charge for probation and parole violations. Again, I personally do not know of any jurisdictions that do. Here we would not. Upon booking a jailer would be advised to inform inmate records to contact the arrestee's probation and parole officer of the offense. The P&P agent would then send a detainer to the jail and the offender would not be released, or bailed/bonded from jail, until a hearing. If the offender was found to be a violator, in a perfect world, after the hearing, he/she would be remanded into custody for the remainder of their paroled or probated sentence. Unfortunately this does not happen as it should. However, they would still face their current charge(s). Hope this helps.
    Do not war for peace. If you must war, war for justice. For without justice there is no peace. -me

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    R.I.P. Arielle. 08/20/2010-09/16/2012


  15. #15
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    Armed Robbery with Use of firearm enhancement
    Felony Evading
    Resisting Officer
    Assault on Officer
    Felon in Possession of firearm
    Violation of probation
    Possession of Stolen Property or Drug paraphernalia (cut cigar tube is the money tube from store safe or drug canister?)...

  16. #16
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    If the cut cigar tube had no residue or substance in it, charge him with littering, since he just dropped it on the ground.
    Wiping the turds of humanity from the ass of society from 1600 to midnight.

  17. #17
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    Dont forget brandishing a firearm, which at least here isn't a lesser included for the agg robbery.
    The world would be much cleaner if blind people carried brooms instead of sticks.

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  18. #18
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    Since I am not allowed to answer the original question, I will ask the responding posters this:
    Is not the original poster asking for what the articulable probable cause would be for the stop, not the chargeable arrests?

 

 

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