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  1. #1
    Bigdaddy1 is offline Officer First Class
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    Can a LEO carry in a school zone?

    Now before I get flammed for asking, this is an honest question.

    Example, Police Officer Harry is taking his daughter to school while on his way to work. He is in uniform and has his sidearm in his holster. Officer Harry is not acting in any official capacity, is he in violation of the law by having his weapon in his holster while delivering his daughter to school?

    I highlighted the section I am questioning. Does section #2 conflict with section #6?

    Wisconsin statute
    948.605 Gun−free school zones. (1) DEFINITIONS. In this
    section:
    (a) “Encased” has the meaning given in s. 167.31 (1) (b).
    (ac) “Firearm” does not include any beebee or pellet−firing
    gun that expels a projectile through the force of air pressure or any
    starter pistol.
    (am) “Motor vehicle” has the meaning given in s. 340.01 (35).
    (b) “School” has the meaning given in s. 948.61 (1) (b).
    (c) “School zone” means any of the following:
    1. In or on the grounds of a school.
    2. Within 1,000 feet from the grounds of a school.
    (2) POSSESSION OF FIREARM IN SCHOOL ZONE. (a) Any individual
    who knowingly possesses a firearm at a place that the individual
    knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone is
    guilty of a Class I felony.
    (b) Paragraph (a) does not apply to the possession of a firearm:
    1. On private property not part of school grounds;
    2. If the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so
    by a political subdivision of the state or bureau of alcohol, tobacco
    and firearms in which political subdivision the school zone is
    located, and the law of the political subdivision requires that,
    before an individual may obtain such a license, the law enforcement
    authorities of the political subdivision must verify that the
    individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
    3. That is not loaded and is:
    a. Encased; or
    b. In a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;
    4. By an individual for use in a program approved by a school
    in the school zone;
    5. By an individual in accordance with a contract entered into
    between a school in the school zone and the individual or an
    employer of the individual;
    6. By a law enforcement officer or state−certified commission
    warden acting in his or her official capacity; or

    7. That is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while
    traversing school grounds for the purpose of gaining access to
    public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school
    grounds is authorized by school authorities.
    8. By a person who is legally hunting in a school forest if the
    school board has decided that hunting may be allowed in the
    school forest under s. 120.13 (38).
    What part of "the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

  2. #2
    jmur5074's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigdaddy1 View Post
    Does section #2 conflict with section #6?

    No.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bigdaddy1
    Wisconsin statute
    948.605 Gun−free school zones.
    (1) DEFINITIONS. In this
    section:
    (a) “Encased” has the meaning given in s. 167.31 (1) (b).
    (ac) “Firearm” does not include any beebee or pellet−firing
    gun that expels a projectile through the force of air pressure or any
    starter pistol.
    (am) “Motor vehicle” has the meaning given in s. 340.01 (35).
    (b) “School” has the meaning given in s. 948.61 (1) (b).
    (c) “School zone” means any of the following:
    1. In or on the grounds of a school.
    2. Within 1,000 feet from the grounds of a school.

    (2) POSSESSION OF FIREARM IN SCHOOL ZONE. (a) Any individual
    who knowingly possesses a firearm at a place that the individual
    knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone is
    guilty of a Class I felony.



    (b) Paragraph (a) does not apply to the possession of a firearm:
    1. On private property not part of school grounds;
    2. If the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so
    by a political subdivision of the state or bureau of alcohol, tobacco
    and firearms in which political subdivision the school zone is
    located, and the law of the political subdivision requires that,
    before an individual may obtain such a license, the law enforcement
    authorities of the political subdivision must verify that the
    individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
    3. That is not loaded and is:
    a. Encased; or
    b. In a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;
    4. By an individual for use in a program approved by a school
    in the school zone;
    5. By an individual in accordance with a contract entered into
    between a school in the school zone and the individual or an
    employer of the individual;
    6. By a law enforcement officer or state−certified commission
    warden acting in his or her official capacity; or

    7. That is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while
    traversing school grounds for the purpose of gaining access to
    public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school
    grounds is authorized by school authorities.
    8. By a person who is legally hunting in a school forest if the
    school board has decided that hunting may be allowed in the
    school forest under s. 120.13 (38).

    Subdivision 2 paragraph "A" is the first part I highlighted in blue. That paragraph indicates carrying in a school zone is a crime. The second part I highlighted in blue indicates exceptions to Paragraph "a".....#6 (the part you highlighted) is within that section meaning it's an exception to carrying in a school zone.

    And after I typed all this out I see that you said he's NOT acting in his official capacity.

    I would still say it's an exception to the law. If he's in full uniform he's ready and able to act at a moments notice to anything around him. In MN a LEO has police powers throughout the entire state 24/7. So if a cop is dropping his daughter off at school 30 mins before his shift starts but he's in full uniform, he's exempt from that law.
    No one has greater love than this, to lay down ones life for ones friends - John 15:13

    "The Wicked Flee When No Man Pursueth: But The Righteous Are Bold As A Lion".

    We lucky few, we band of brothers. For he who today sheds his blood with me shall be my brother.

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  3. #3
    Five-0's Avatar
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    Well is an officer in his uniform going to say to crazy person at the school, "Carry on sir. I'm not on the clock so you can go ahead and kidnap, shoot, sale alcohol to minors ect here at the school. By God when I get on the clock you better stop." According to my SOP I am acting in my official capacity if I do anything law enforcement related. Period.

    Meanwhile, fishing in Russia:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkzV5AIK8iM
    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." -- Frederic Bastiat

    "Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter." Ernest Hemingway

    The opinions given in my signatures & threads DO NOT reflect the opinions, views, policies, and/or procedures of my employing agency. They are my personal opinions only, thereby releasing my agency of any liability, or involvement in anything posted under the username "Five-0" on Officerresource.com

  4. #4
    Ace's Avatar
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    Ace is offline haud pacis pro scelestus
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    Quote Originally Posted by Five-0 View Post
    Well is an officer in his uniform going to say to crazy person at the school, "Carry on sir. I'm not on the clock so you can go ahead and kidnap, shoot, sale alcohol to minors ect here at the school. By God when I get on the clock you better stop." According to my SOP I am acting in my official capacity if I do anything law enforcement related. Period.
    This
    RIP Sarah Noll~11-8-87 to 4-17-08

  5. #5
    Bigdaddy1 is offline Officer First Class
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    Sorry, I meant paragraph 2,

    If the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so
    by a political subdivision of the state or bureau of alcohol, tobacco
    and firearms in which political subdivision the school zone is
    located, and the law of the political subdivision requires that,
    before an individual may obtain such a license, the law enforcement
    authorities of the political subdivision must verify that the
    individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

    Almost describes a CC permit, but Wisconsin does not have a concealed carry option.
    What part of "the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

  6. #6
    pgg's Avatar
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    In CA someone with a CCW can carry in a school zone unless otherwise noted on their permit. Off duty officers can carry also
    'Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a
    delusional, illogical liberal minority, and rabidly
    promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which
    holds forth the proposition that it is entirely
    possible to pick up a turd by the clean end!'

    “A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity.” Sigmund Freud

  7. #7
    Jks9199 is online now The Reason People Hate Cops & Causer of War
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    Fortunately, here in VA, we don't have such silliness. On or off the clock, all the exceptions and exemptions that allow me to carry a gun say I can. The most I can be accused of is trespass, if I'm not on official business and I disregard a sign saying "NO GUNS." Fed property, including parks until recently, were a different issue.
    Voting against incumbents until we get a Congress that does its job.

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  8. #8
    krauty's Avatar
    krauty is offline Corporal
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jks9199 View Post
    The most I can be accused of is trespass, if I'm not on official business and I disregard a sign saying "NO GUNS."
    In Minnesota we are exempt from these signs. We just have to leave if asked to.

  9. #9
    Bigdaddy1 is offline Officer First Class
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    In Wisconsin where we only have the option to openly carry our firearms, if a store posts no firearms we simply choose not to patronize that shop.
    What part of "the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

  10. #10
    E-man's Avatar
    E-man is offline No bird but dog and 3 cats
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    Here is the law in PA.

    Section 912. Possession of Weapon on School Property.

    (a) Definition - Notwithstanding the definition of
    "weapon" in section 907 (relating to possessing instruments
    of crime), "weapon" for purposes of this section shall
    include but not be limited to any knife, cutting
    instrument, cutting tool, nun-chuck stick, firearm,
    shotgun, rifle and any other tool, instrument or implement
    capable of inflicting serious bodily injury.

    (b) Offense defined - A person commits a misdemeanor of
    the first degree if he possesses a weapon in the buildings
    of, on the grounds of, or in any conveyance providing
    transportation to or from any elementary or secondary
    publicly-funded educational institution, any elementary or
    secondary private school licensed by the Department of
    Education or any elementary or secondary parochial school.

    (c) Defense - It shall be a defense that the weapon is
    possessed and used in conjunction with a lawful supervised
    school activity or course or is possessed for other lawful
    purpose.


    Notice subsection {c} Defense. So, a defense doesnt prohibit a person from being arrested, its just a good legal defense to why you did it.
    There doesn't seem to be an exception rule for police in schools but there is one for court facilities. Dont ask but PA sucks.

    Here is something else I found, not sure if KOHL still exists but
    http://gunowners.org/fs9713.htm

    A monday morning lunatic, disturbed from time to time. Temporary catatonic madman on occasion..

    Lightning crashes a new mother cries, her placenta falls to the floor. The angel opens her eyes,the confusion sets in before the doctor can even close the door..
    The views and comments of E-man are mine and mine alone and therefore might not reflect the views of others or people in my current department. As such since this is still America I can post what I want without fear of retribution. I think.

    RIP Eric

  11. #11
    E-man's Avatar
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    ANd this is from Wiki about the Gun Free School Zone Act of 1990



    The GFSZA of 1995 effectively prohibits carry under the Law Enforcement Officer's Safety Act (LEOSA)
    The Law Enforcement Officer's Safety Act (LEOSA) which was intended to give qualified law enforcement officers the protection of carrying nation-wide does not provide any exceptions to Federal Law. Although the GFSZA of 1995 does provide an exception for a law-enforcement officer performing their official duties, it does not provide any protection for an off-duty officer. An off-duty officer is unable to legally travel within one-thousand (1000) feet of any K-12 school while armed.
    A monday morning lunatic, disturbed from time to time. Temporary catatonic madman on occasion..

    Lightning crashes a new mother cries, her placenta falls to the floor. The angel opens her eyes,the confusion sets in before the doctor can even close the door..
    The views and comments of E-man are mine and mine alone and therefore might not reflect the views of others or people in my current department. As such since this is still America I can post what I want without fear of retribution. I think.

    RIP Eric

  12. #12
    spcwes's Avatar
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    Didn't the bill Pres Bush got passed cover all this? And was a Federal Law trumping state and local? Ok now I got to put on my glasses and start reading the small print ....DAMN

    Edited to add, someone beat me to it.
    STOP RESISTING!!!!

    For he is God's servant to do you good, but if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.

    The opinions expressed in this post are mine, and mine alone. They are NOT the opinions of my Agency or my Agency Heads.

  13. #13
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    If the intent of the laws concerning "gun free school zones" was to protect children from mad men and active shooters, why is anyone concerned about a LEO carrying a firearm anywhere? If you are concerned about a "glitch" in the laws for your state, change the law. If I respond to an active shooter at a school in Georgia and you are a retired officer from MN who is willing to go in with me, I would welcome your assistance. The only person who would likely protest your legal status is the perpetrator. Even the principal would welcome you....whether or not you checking at the main office prior to entry.

    Blue Line Lawyer

  14. #14
    Bigdaddy1 is offline Officer First Class
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueLineLawyer View Post
    If the intent of the laws concerning "gun free school zones" was to protect children from mad men and active shooters, why is anyone concerned about a LEO carrying a firearm anywhere? If you are concerned about a "glitch" in the laws for your state, change the law. If I respond to an active shooter at a school in Georgia and you are a retired officer from MN who is willing to go in with me, I would welcome your assistance. The only person who would likely protest your legal status is the perpetrator. Even the principal would welcome you....whether or not you checking at the main office prior to entry.

    Blue Line Lawyer
    I wouldn't consider this to be a glitch, but a large oversight.. However I also consider the entire law foolish and a waste, constitutionally questionable and should be repealed.
    Now then back to the glitch part. As the law is worded (at least in Wisconsin) it would seem that if the LEO is not there for an official reason he/she is in violation of the GFSZ law. It does not may any provision or exception that I can see. What brought this question to mind is the recent voting incident where a LEO was denied the right to vote because he would not relinquish his weapon. Many times polling places are held in local schools, during school hours. If this is the case, unless the officer was called there that officer is not under any official guidelines and subject to the same laws as the citizenry. I would doubt if anyone would make a complaint, but if someone decided to be ornery and calls just to be contrite. From the current wording of the law, that LEO would be commiting a felony. So this is the big question.
    What part of "the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

  15. #15
    Five-0's Avatar
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    I believe we covered the Maine incident that Bigdaddy mentioned here:

    http://apbweb.com/forums/news-5/unif...ed-vote-43441/

    Just some FYI for those new here.

    Meanwhile, fishing in Russia:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkzV5AIK8iM
    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." -- Frederic Bastiat

    "Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter." Ernest Hemingway

    The opinions given in my signatures & threads DO NOT reflect the opinions, views, policies, and/or procedures of my employing agency. They are my personal opinions only, thereby releasing my agency of any liability, or involvement in anything posted under the username "Five-0" on Officerresource.com

  16. #16
    bayern's Avatar
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    As a Sworn Law Enforcement Officer in my state, the only places I can't carry are:

    1. Jails and prisons,

    2. Federal Buildings and Federal Court Buildings. (this does not include Military Installations).

    3. Mental Wards in Hospitals (my choice).

  17. #17
    Pudge's Avatar
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    As a matter of fact, I am right now as I post. Sitting in my truck in the lot, waiting for my little guy to come out for the day. I'm off duty, with my two other kids, and sitting in a line with numerous other cars.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pudge View Post
    As a matter of fact, I am right now as I post. Sitting in my truck in the lot, waiting for my little guy to come out for the day. I'm off duty, with my two other kids, and sitting in a line with numerous other cars.
    And if something happened while u were sitting there that put the life of a child in trouble you wouldn't be sitting in that car any longer and NOT ONE parrent would question why the off duty officer was armed while sitting in the school driveway.

  19. #19
    Bigdaddy1 is offline Officer First Class
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteelCityK9Cop View Post
    And if something happened while u were sitting there that put the life of a child in trouble you wouldn't be sitting in that car any longer and NOT ONE parrent would question why the off duty officer was armed while sitting in the school driveway.
    While I would love to agree with you, I have heard too many times where the "good Samaritan" is besieged because he/she shouldn't have been there. "what if he shot some kid while trying to take down the guy?" You know it happens.
    What part of "the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

  20. #20
    Five-0's Avatar
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    Are we going to play the someone got shot while stopping an active shooter game?

    Meanwhile, fishing in Russia:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkzV5AIK8iM
    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." -- Frederic Bastiat

    "Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter." Ernest Hemingway

    The opinions given in my signatures & threads DO NOT reflect the opinions, views, policies, and/or procedures of my employing agency. They are my personal opinions only, thereby releasing my agency of any liability, or involvement in anything posted under the username "Five-0" on Officerresource.com

 

 
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