Open Carry in CA.... Thoughts?

[MacLean]

How would society take your safety and security more seriously? What should we (law abiding civilians) do to aid you in your protection? Keep in mind this is not a snide comment, but a real question. Society views you (police) as the protectors, not those in need of protection

I actually understand the point here, but it gets confusing unless you recognize the initial comment about protection had to do with not having license plates that scream cop.

I don't believe anyone here is asking for any special protection, but rather folks were lamenting the fact that it is dangerous for us to show professional pride outside the work place.

[WS6 Rampage]

Not to be rude or disrespectful to anyone, but I do believe that this threads topic digressed pretty far from Open Cary in CA. ...Just saying!

[Sarge405]

Been around the block a few times and seen a little. Don't live in Ca. but in a state with OC&CC. My opinions-

I am a lifetime NRA member. Support every law-abiding citizens right to carry and defend themselves and their families.

I support concealed carry "shall issue on demand" to law abiding citizens. I do not support open carry. Here's why. We have enough to do without answering another thousand calls from hysterical citizens seeing a "person with gun" . Of course we divert resources from other major calls to go on these.
In my opinion, anyone openly carrying has some sort of power issues. I am a police officer and I would NOT even consider doing it for my own safety. I see detectives, off-duty officers doing and shake my head in disgust. When not in uniform my weapon and badge are concealed. I will not make a target of myself off duty nor should a civilian.

[WS6 Rampage]

Been around the block a few times and seen a little. Don't live in Ca. but in a state with OC&CC. My opinions-

I am a lifetime NRA member. Support every law-abiding citizens right to carry and defend themselves and their families.

I support concealed carry "shall issue on demand" to law abiding citizens. I do not support open carry. Here's why. We have enough to do without answering another thousand calls from hysterical citizens seeing a "person with gun" . Of course we divert resources from other major calls to go on these.
In my opinion, anyone openly carrying has some sort of power issues. I am a police officer and I would NOT even consider doing it for my own safety. I see detectives, off-duty officers doing and shake my head in disgust. When not in uniform my weapon and badge are concealed. I will not make a target of myself off duty nor should a civilian.

I see your point. ... BUT... Unfortunately, I'm not fortunate enough to live in a "Pro-Gun" state that SHALL-ISSUE UPON REQUEST. If it was, I'd be CC all day and would gladly refrain from "advertising.".... For me, its not a "power issue" over others but rather self-empowerment. It's not me saying "I want to make people freak out and or stare". It's really more like "I'm have an American right to defend myself this way BUT because I live in CA and state officials here want me to scare you by forcing me to OC. Say hello to another Anti-gun citizen! When's election day? -Cheers!"...

It's a pain. ... It's California. ... Its pathetic

Either way, if your an LEO, I respect your point of view. I can only assume the frustration felt when you have to answer a "man w/ a gun" call only to find out it's an OC situation. It's frustrating for those of us who would have to stand there for the "12031 Check" and keep legal phrases in mind just in case, hit the record button on our digital recorders or iPhones (also, just in case)... all while remembering to stand still and not move a muscle. So the frustration is felt on both sides. Haha!! -Cheers!!

[Sarge405]

WS6
I respect your opinion and the only option afforded you and why you have to take advantage of it. I can only give my opinions. When I respond to a "person with gun" call, you have to understand the why's of my mistrust. I do not know you are a law abiding citizen. I do not know what the circumstance are. My call may only be a suspicious person with a gun. No further information available. Are you in fact a criminal whose weapon "flashed" and someone saw it" .

Just like a traffic stop with a concealed carry holder that flashes when I call in the plates. Its for the registered owned. Is that the driver? Was the gun in the car and the car stolen but not reported yet? Any number of circumstances can be stumbled upon in our line of work. The interaction between us and the firearm carrier always has to start off with us treating every situation the same until we are satisfied that you pose no threat to us or the citizenry at large.

That initial encounter is what I find disturbs most honest open and concealed carriers. For some reason, and this is my opinion based on my interactions, they feel their 2nd Amend. rights trump everything. I have heard the JackBoot thug argument to I have no constitutional authority to stop them. For some reason I have become the enemy. This I do not understand. Concealed carry is the only way to alleviate the problem of public hysteria, which will always be there. People will always be afraid of guns. Law abiding gun owners need to stop being part of the silent majority and organize in order to elect politicians sympathetic to concealed carry legislation.

[ChesCopPodz]

I see your point. ... BUT... Unfortunately, I'm not fortunate enough to live in a "Pro-Gun" state that SHALL-ISSUE UPON REQUEST. If it was, I'd be CC all day and would gladly refrain from "advertising.".... For me, its not a "power issue" over others but rather self-empowerment. It's not me saying "I want to make people freak out and or stare". It's really more like "I'm have an American right to defend myself this way BUT because I live in CA and state officials here want me to scare you by forcing me to OC. Say hello to another Anti-gun citizen! When's election day? -Cheers!"...

This makes sense to me. If open carry is the only way you can defend yourself, than that's what you should do........with a loaded gun. I see zero good things about openly carrying an unloaded gun. You can't even defend yourself unless you have the advantage of enough time to load it up first.

[MacLean]

This makes sense to me. If open carry is the only way you can defend yourself, than that's what you should do........with a loaded gun. I see zero good things about openly carrying an unloaded gun. You can't even defend yourself unless you have the advantage of enough time to load it up first.

CA requires they carry their gun unloaded.

[pgg]

CA requires they carry their gun unloaded.

And it allows officers to check and verify that it is unloaded. Keep in mind that you still can't open carry in a school zone in CA

[WS6 Rampage]

WS6
I respect your opinion and the only option afforded you and why you have to take advantage of it. I can only give my opinions. When I respond to a "person with gun" call, you have to understand the why's of my mistrust. I do not know you are a law abiding citizen. I do not know what the circumstance are. My call may only be a suspicious person with a gun. No further information available. Are you in fact a criminal whose weapon "flashed" and someone saw it" .

Just like a traffic stop with a concealed carry holder that flashes when I call in the plates. Its for the registered owned. Is that the driver? Was the gun in the car and the car stolen but not reported yet? Any number of circumstances can be stumbled upon in our line of work. The interaction between us and the firearm carrier always has to start off with us treating every situation the same until we are satisfied that you pose no threat to us or the citizenry at large.

That initial encounter is what I find disturbs most honest open and concealed carriers. For some reason, and this is my opinion based on my interactions, they feel their 2nd Amend. rights trump everything. I have heard the JackBoot thug argument to I have no constitutional authority to stop them. For some reason I have become the enemy. This I do not understand. Concealed carry is the only way to alleviate the problem of public hysteria, which will always be there. People will always be afraid of guns. Law abiding gun owners need to stop being part of the silent majority and organize in order to elect politicians sympathetic to concealed carry legislation.

Oh, I understand completely what your saying! ... If I was an LEO, id be super suspicious of an OC also. It's your job and who in your line of work wants to be an unfortunate statistic! ...

Yea, I know the type of OCs your referring to. Haha! Those are the ones that make us ALL look like jerks! ... It's generally understood, that's your job as an LEO to check for an unloaded weapon. I heard a few say that "We need to educate the police!"... Great way to get the LEOs on our side, let's give them attitude! That'll work wonders!! **head shaking** LOL!!.. ... I've always viewed it like this, if and when I receive a 12031 check, comply with the LEO, show him or her the respect they deserve, don't argue a damn thing and the respect will be equally returned. It'll be over with as quick as it began.

Truthfully though, I recently just stopped OC. Reason being that I'm currently attempting to join LAPD. I have no desire to have my name pop up on a report or something at the moment that puts me in a negative light while going through the process. Too important for me to risk at the moment. ... I WISH I had a CCW!

[WS6 Rampage]

CA requires they carry their gun unloaded.

Look, but don't touch. Touch, but don't taste. Taste, but don't swallow. ...Carry, but don't load. Haha!!

[Sarge405]

Truthfully though, I recently just stopped OC. Reason being that I'm currently attempting to join LAPD. I have no desire to have my name pop up on a report or something at the moment that puts me in a negative light while going through the process. Too important for me to risk at the moment. ... I WISH I had a CCW!

I want to wish you the best of luck. You seem to have a level head about you and a good common sense.

[lewisipso]

Truthfully though, I recently just stopped OC. Reason being that I'm currently attempting to join LAPD.

Hate that you had to give up your only option but good fortune in your endeavor.

[MacLean]

And it allows officers to check and verify that it is unloaded. Keep in mind that you still can't open carry in a school zone in CA

As serious a constitutional challenge waiting as I have ever seen.

Any law that *allows* a search affirmatively is asking to be shot down.

[121Traffic]

As serious a constitutional challenge waiting as I have ever seen.

Any law that *allows* a search affirmatively is asking to be shot down.

You know, when I was a newer cop, I would have wholeheartedly supported the law as described.

People think that cops like to trample on constitutional rights. The longer I do this work, the more I VALUE constitutional rights. Most especially my own. And now that I've been through some ridiculous trials and tribulations when it comes to acquiring firearms, both as a law abiding citizen and as a gainfully employed cop, I'm a huge proponent of leaving citizens with guns alone unless there's a lawful reason not to.

Unless I have RAS to contact someone for a crime, and can then articulate a terry pat based on the presence of the gun, I have a huge problem with a law that allows cops to stop a citizen based solely on possession of a visible firearm, absent ANY other justification, just to verify it is unloaded.

[pgg]

Unfortunately so far the courts have upheld it. It is in the 9th circus though.

[MacLean]

Unfortunately so far the courts have upheld it. It is in the 9th circus though.

No Federal court has upheld that, and I'd be surprised even if the 9th did - although they get shot down by SCOTUS so often it's a wonder they show up.

However, let's take that argument....

The court says it is ok in California.

Doesn't mean *I* do it.

[sgtbear111]

You know, when I was a newer cop, I would have wholeheartedly supported the law as described.

People think that cops like to trample on constitutional rights. The longer I do this work, the more I VALUE constitutional rights. Most especially my own. And now that I've been through some ridiculous trials and tribulations when it comes to acquiring firearms, both as a law abiding citizen and as a gainfully employed cop, I'm a huge proponent of leaving citizens with guns alone unless there's a lawful reason not to.

Unless I have RAS to contact someone for a crime, and can then articulate a terry pat based on the presence of the gun, I have a huge problem with a law that allows cops to stop a citizen based solely on possession of a visible firearm, absent ANY other justification, just to verify it is unloaded.

-----------------------------------------------------
+1 and amen.

The time spent between the academy and retirement can be looked upon as a mixed lesson in civics,, constitutional law and addiction to power. The problem with the party line legislature and single source elected officials is: they become arrogant, unaccountable; they obey their Party masters and have lost the ability to think, and respect the rights of others.

[serpico155]

on the matter of having lic.plates\that say f.o.p on them ...ive had
lic.plate brackets for yrs with f.o.p active member on them and nver had a problem ..ive had problems with having my squad car parked in my driveway ..but never the plates ..ill get them when there avaliable and proudly display them on the car that i drive only .. ihave never lived in fear or plan to now th at im retired . because after..being amarine in a grunt company in vietnam in 1969 ..and after recieving 2 purple hearts ..im a firm believer when it your time to go therers nothing you can do or say to stop it ...ive seen to many times in my life tro believe it any other way

[MacLean]

on the matter of having lic.plates\that say f.o.p on them ...ive had
lic.plate brackets for yrs with f.o.p active member on them and nver had a problem ..ive had problems with having my squad car parked in my driveway ..but never the plates ..ill get them when there avaliable and proudly display them on the car that i drive only .. ihave never lived in fear or plan to now th at im retired . because after..being amarine in a grunt company in vietnam in 1969 ..and after recieving 2 purple hearts ..im a firm believer when it your time to go therers nothing you can do or say to stop it ...ive seen to many times in my life tro believe it any other way

I'm guessing your perspective changes as you get older, having survived Vietnam.

Thank you for that service!

[HudsonHawk]

I see your point. ... BUT... Unfortunately, I'm not fortunate enough to live in a "Pro-Gun" state that SHALL-ISSUE UPON REQUEST. If it was, I'd be CC all day and would gladly refrain from "advertising.".... For me, its not a "power issue" over others but rather self-empowerment. It's not me saying "I want to make people freak out and or stare". It's really more like "I'm have an American right to defend myself this way BUT because I live in CA and state officials here want me to scare you by forcing me to OC. Say hello to another Anti-gun citizen! When's election day? -Cheers!"...

It's a pain. ... It's California. ... Its pathetic

If law prohibits you from carrying any other way, then by all means it is your RIGHT to carry in that manner if you choose to do so. I don't that OC is a good idea, tactically, especially unloaded.

Here's a fairly recent article where an OC'er was attacked and had his loaded gun taken away. Luckily the pistol was secured by a witness. Customer attacked at Garcia's restaurant | KOB.com