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Thread: More Cameras?

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    IMGreat101's Avatar
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    More Cameras?

    Does your dept. have these? What is your opinion? The county is now considering the same equipment.


    The citations will generate at least $176,500 in revenue for the city after fees are paid to its contractor, Gatso USA.
    Freeway speed cameras in Des Moines nab 4,400 in October | Des Moines Register Staff Blogs
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    No, our dept nor the county police dept in my county dont use it either. Highway Patrol uses laser and radar. County Police still use radar. They are HOWEVER evaluating the system that has scanners that mount on all 4 fender of a county car and allows the driver to monitor vehicles/license plates and status of registered owners of the vehicles. Havent heard what they'll do.

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    I don't know about speed cameras but red light cameras are illegal here. Only two cities (both with much controversy) were using them when the law passed making them illegal.
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    Hate them.

    1. No facing your accuser.
    2. Private companies getting a piece of the cites.
    3. Have a goal toward revenue not safety.

    Meanwhile, fishing in Russia:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkzV5AIK8iM
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    You feel safer yet?

    Meanwhile, fishing in Russia:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkzV5AIK8iM
    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." -- Frederic Bastiat

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    The department is also considering adding a mobile speed unit to be used throughout the city.
    Read more: New Speed Cameras Planned For I-235? - Automotive News Story - KCCI Des Moines

    City records show 49 appeals are scheduled this month, a 44 percent climb over the previous four months combined
    Read more: More Drivers Fighting Traffic Camera Tickets - Des Moines News Story - KCCI Des Moines
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    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Solomon

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    Quote Originally Posted by Five-0 View Post
    You feel safer yet?
    Now that they have red light cameras, adding another speed camera and a second mobile speed unit?

    The courts make $$$$ off the appeals too. Where will it end?
    To Live Is To Eat

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    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Solomon

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    Who writes the tickets? Doesn't a sworn peace officer have to issue the ticket?

    We had red light cameras for a couple of years. But then people quit running the red lights and they quickly became a money sink. Once the city told our chief to start trimming the fat on the budget, those were the first things to get the axe. Among other reasons, we had to assign officers (not enough money to create new positions) from the road to come in and write the red light camera tickets. Wasn't cost effective, and we were getting short-handed on the road.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Five-0 View Post
    Hate them.

    1. No facing your accuser.
    2. Private companies getting a piece of the cites.
    3. Have a goal toward revenue not safety.
    Exactly what Five-0 said. The money could be much better spent elsewhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Five-0 View Post
    Hate them.

    1. No facing your accuser.
    2. Private companies getting a piece of the cites.
    3. Have a goal toward revenue not safety.
    As far as facing your accuser goes, that'll be the officer that writes the ticket based on what the camera shows him. You can still face him in court, so I don't think that's an issue.

    I agree with you on the other two points, though. And I think #3 alone is enough that we shouldn't use devices like that at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by berserk View Post
    As far as facing your accuser goes, that'll be the officer that writes the ticket based on what the camera shows him. You can still face him in court, so I don't think that's an issue.

    I agree with you on the other two points, though. And I think #3 alone is enough that we shouldn't use devices like that at all.

    Areas that I know that use them (here in Ohio) issue them as civil infractions, much like a parking ticket. They don't use Sworn Officers, and mail the citations to the registered owner of the car. The citations state that failure to pay will be reported on your credit report.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Five-0 View Post
    Hate them.

    1. No facing your accuser.
    2. Private companies getting a piece of the cites.
    3. Have a goal toward revenue not safety.

    Bingo.

    Not to mention, they take an already poor public perception of Law Enforcement and wipe society's ass with it, when in fact the majority of us are against them.

    I just had this conversation with a friend who posted on facebook about receiving one. He was blown away to learn that 'real cops' don't play any part in it, and we hate them as much as society does.
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    berserk is offline The reason they do psych evals
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pudge View Post
    Areas that I know that use them (here in Ohio) issue them as civil infractions, much like a parking ticket. They don't use Sworn Officers, and mail the citations to the registered owner of the car. The citations state that failure to pay will be reported on your credit report.
    Interesting. We use sworn officers (usually either ROD or injured), and mail out actual tickets. Someone was telling me that they even take steps to identify the driver, although I'm not sure how much faith I'd put in that. Not that it would be hard to obtain DMV photos and compare, but it seems like a lot of extra steps to go through when the revenue will probably be generated either way. Er, I mean when the roads will be made safer either way.

    Our unpaid parking tickets, on the other hand... I'm pretty sure those just go in a box somewhere in the court's basement. No credit report, no hit on the plate, nobody gets booted or towed. Nothing. It's the perfect stat.

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    They are the bane of our lives over here in the UK.

    Initially a good idea when they were placed solely at accident blackspots, however they were used as a tool to bring in income and to remove the number of traffic officers on the roads.

    I recall the guy who introduced the idea, a Superintendent in the Met I believe, commenting some years later that if he'd known how they were going to ultimately be used in the UK, he'd never have raised the idea in the first place.

    They also steered the thrust of accident reduction away from driver education and where necessary, prosecution for poor driving standards and unsafe vehicles, over to speed which was easily measured and easily explained.

    One example I can give is the local safety partnership wanting to reduce the speed limit on a road I policed from 60 mph to 50 mph due to the number of accidents.

    Despite it being pointed out that the road carried far more heavy goods vehicles than the norm and that the majority of serious and fatal crashes on that road involved HGV's ( which are already restricted to 40mph! on that type of road ) and that our own surverys showed that the average speeds did not come up to our enforcement threshold anyway, they still went away and dropped the limit, deployed a camera van and started targetting exactly the wrong drivers.

    As you can imagine, I'm not a fan!
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    Quote Originally Posted by warrants 1 View Post
    They are HOWEVER evaluating the system that has scanners that mount on all 4 fender of a county car and allows the driver to monitor vehicles/license plates and status of registered owners of the vehicles. Havent heard what they'll do.
    This is ANPR (Automatic Number Plate Reader) alot of stateside forces are now using them and they have been in widespread use here for a number of years. They have nothing to do with speed enforcement. The four camera system sounds like overkill and a very old/temporary system. Generally it only needs one front and rear camera. They basically read a number plate and if the databases find anything it flags it up as a warning on the in car system. databases here range from stolen vehicles, police interest/intelligence, wether the vehicle is insured, down to missing persons etc etc. Only limit is the number of databases. We also have static cameras to read the plates with the information going through our control rooms. It is an invaluable tool.

    As for speed cameras, a good idea if not used for revenue.However it quickly leads to a habit known as "surfing" where people just slow down for the camera sites once they get used to where they are. hence why some mobile vans started to be used. In the UK they are generally operated by civiians.
    They have struggled to be finacialy viable whilst still operating under the theory that they can only operate where accident stats show there is a problem.They have started to move away from enforcement and on to education. Instead of points and a fine you get the option to go to a speed awareness course(you have to pay). apparently this seems to have more of an effect than the fine system. It also means your insurance premiums don't go up as the course does not count as a conviction.
    The courses are only offered for the lower end of excessive speed if your way over you don't get the option. You also get the courses for using your mobile phone(my particular pet hate)
    However the problem is that drivers who don't register their cars properly are difficult to trace and often get away with it. Although the ANPR I talked about links in to this.If a vehicle owner/driver can't be traced and especially if multiple speed offences are recorded the car will be flagged up and stopped. I had alot of good stop checks usually ending in the arrest, for something, of the vehicle occupants.
    Technology and automated systems have a place in policing without doubt but there always needs to be a balance to it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pudge View Post
    Areas that I know that use them (here in Ohio) issue them as civil infractions, much like a parking ticket. They don't use Sworn Officers, and mail the citations to the registered owner of the car. The citations state that failure to pay will be reported on your credit report.

    This is what I was eluding to. Not to mention I feel that it is owed to the public that cops are a part of the traffic enforcement process. For example, we will see one of these camera cites in the system snap a picture of a vehicle/driver right before an accident where that driver was intoxicated, wanted, ect. At least the revenue was collected though.

    Meanwhile, fishing in Russia:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkzV5AIK8iM
    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." -- Frederic Bastiat

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  18. #18
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    Let's expand the argument a bit. This isn't a "within our lifetime" question, it's within a few years. It's not long before having 4k video of every inch of the roadway is feasible, (recall this whole web era of the intenet is only 20 years old as of last August) with pattern trackers monitors that put Ms Siri to shame.

    We can TSA the shit out of the roadways. Should we?

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    Quote Originally Posted by warrants 1 View Post
    No, our dept nor the county police dept in my county dont use it either. Highway Patrol uses laser and radar. County Police still use radar. They are HOWEVER evaluating the system that has scanners that mount on all 4 fender of a county car and allows the driver to monitor vehicles/license plates and status of registered owners of the vehicles. Havent heard what they'll do.
    we use sky cop Home. the camera is mounted on the top of the car. it can pan and tilt. the newer ones have have a thermal camera as well. we are working on facial recognition. i like it because it puts the officer in contact with the people. the red light and speeding cameras are just to generate income.




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    the new speed enforcement camera


    "A strong man stands up for himself. A stronger man stands up for others."
    Ben

    The old sheriff was attending an awards dinner when a lady commented
    on his wearing his sidearm. "Sheriff, I see you have your pistol. Are you
    expecting trouble?" "No Ma'am. If I were expecting trouble, I would have
    brought my rifle."
    (just stole this one hope you don't mind)


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    it is just that they know so much that isn't so.
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