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Thread: Open carry Ohio question

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    Cornfed1100 is offline Officer First Class
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    Open carry Ohio question

    The question is that without CHL, when transporting a firearm it must be stowed in a case in trunk unloaded, all ammo out of magazine out of magazine correct. But once I arrive at the grocery store I must be completely out of the vehicle before I can begin to load the magazine and firearm correct. So what if someone sees me loading my firearm and calls the local PD. If they request to see my ID at that time am I required to present it and can they legally detain me, or charge me with anything such as brandishing?

    Keep in mind OC is legal. Transporting without a CHL requires ammo locked separate from the gun.


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    You might have better luck asking an Ohio attorney.
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    Why not get the CHL and avoid the entire issue?
    The world would be much cleaner if blind people carried brooms instead of sticks.

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    Cornfed1100 is offline Officer First Class
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    Why should we sign up for a license to utilize a right covered under the bill of rights and Ohio law? Why do law abiding Citizens fear conducting a legal act? I copied the post from
    Another forum and think its a valid question.


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    What's the statute in Ohio for open carry? What's the disorderly conduct statute there? There's not enough information in the question to evaluate a proper response.
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    There is no section of law in Ohio prohibiting Open Carry, and legislation in the house or senate (not sure which) that on top of adressing reciprocity of other state's license, will make some changes to transporting of firearms if I'm not mistaken.


    Disorderly would not apply

    2917.11 Disorderly conduct.
    (A) No person shall recklessly cause inconvenience, annoyance, or alarm to another by doing any of the following:

    (1) Engaging in fighting, in threatening harm to persons or property, or in violent or turbulent behavior;

    (2) Making unreasonable noise or an offensively coarse utterance, gesture, or display or communicating unwarranted and grossly abusive language to any person;

    (3) Insulting, taunting, or challenging another, under circumstances in which that conduct is likely to provoke a violent response;

    (4) Hindering or preventing the movement of persons on a public street, road, highway, or right-of-way, or to, from, within, or upon public or private property, so as to interfere with the rights of others, and by any act that serves no lawful and reasonable purpose of the offender;

    (5) Creating a condition that is physically offensive to persons or that presents a risk of physical harm to persons or property, by any act that serves no lawful and reasonable purpose of the offender.

    (B) No person, while voluntarily intoxicated, shall do either of the following:

    (1) In a public place or in the presence of two or more persons, engage in conduct likely to be offensive or to cause inconvenience, annoyance, or alarm to persons of ordinary sensibilities, which conduct the offender, if the offender were not intoxicated, should know is likely to have that effect on others;

    (2) Engage in conduct or create a condition that presents a risk of physical harm to the offender or another, or to the property of another.

    (C) Violation of any statute or ordinance of which an element is operating a motor vehicle, locomotive, watercraft, aircraft, or other vehicle while under the influence of alcohol or any drug of abuse, is not a violation of division (B) of this section.

    (D) If a person appears to an ordinary observer to be intoxicated, it is probable cause to believe that person is voluntarily intoxicated for purposes of division (B) of this section.

    (E)(1) Whoever violates this section is guilty of disorderly conduct.

    It's not going to stop the calls, and the calls are coming to call takers who are going to get it out of their hands and to a street officer asap to cover their own ass. It's going to be on the Officer to determine as he's arriving where he will go with the contact if anywhere. Tough to give a blanket response to the question. At the face value of the question, it's not going to ilicit a detainment. Throw in a few more variables and it could change.

    Edit to add: There is no "brandishing" section in the Ohio Revised Code.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pudge View Post
    It's not going to stop the calls, and the calls are coming to call takers who are going to get it out of their hands and to a street officer asap to cover their own ass. It's going to be on the Officer to determine as he's arriving where he will go with the contact if anywhere. Tough to give a blanket response to the question. At the face value of the question, it's not going to ilicit a detainment. Throw in a few more variables and it could change.

    Edit to add: There is no "brandishing" section in the Ohio Revised Code.
    Good to know, thanks for the info.

    Sounds similar to here.
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    Another point that I think a LOT of people need to keep in the back of their minds....How many contacts or calls go lawfully with no issue?

    Outside of the absolutely stellar contact that was shown on youtube, how often does that get publicity? Not often. Why? Cops fucking up or hurting someone's precious feelings (even lawfully) make good press or fuels agendas. Doing the job right happens a ton more than people ever know.

    Someone said in another thread, the way Open Carry "education" is being done now is hurting more than its helping. Even being educated and properly trained, we're still behind the 8ball when the uneducated public perceives or completely fabricates a threat simply because they see a gun.

    For your reference, the youtube clip below. I think you've seen this one already.

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    Regardless of who you are or what you do there's something to be learned from Officer Lyons' professionalism and whit.

    Think I'll write him in next November.

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    Cornfed1100 is offline Officer First Class
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    That's a great example of officer conducting a professional stop. He is a gentleman. I argue the contact was not required for conducting a legal activity.

    Ohio House Passes Firearm Bill to Modernize Reciprocity & Concealed.

    06/13/2012 - 17:24. Ohio Legislation Ohio Politics
    Editor's Note: This article was updated as information became available.

    By a 59 - 28 margin, the Ohio House has passed House Bill 495, sponsored by Representative Terry Johnson (R-McDermott), which will reform Ohio concealed carry law to protect the rights of law-abiding gun owners and continue a trend toward making Ohio law similar to other states.

    HB495 makes three changes to current law:

    Changes to automatically honor other states licenses, similar to a driver's license
    Eliminates the "demonstrated competency" requirement for 2nd and future CHL renewals, making CHL training similar to a hunting license
    Fixes the definition of a "loaded gun" to match the commonly accepted definition

    Your honor please redirect the court to the question at the top of the thread.

    Reloading at your car as the law requires us to do. It's a possibility to be approached by LEO for what? I'd guess a curious LEO would feel obligated to verify the persons intent. I'd guess a sheepeople would make a MWAG call and force LEO to investigate the act of a person trying to be law abiding. I doubt a robber would transport legally then stand in the parking lot reloading.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Cornfed1100 View Post
    Reloading at your car as the law requires us to do. It's a possibility to be approached by LEO for what? I'd guess a curious LEO would feel obligated to verify the persons intent. I'd guess a sheepeople would make a MWAG call and force LEO to investigate the act of a person trying to be law abiding. I doubt a robber would transport legally then stand in the parking lot reloading.
    This pretty much answers your question.

    So what would you think is the proper response?

    Someone sees a man loading a gun getting ready to head into a crowded mall. What should their toughts be? "I'm sure he means no harm, I'm sure he's just some law abiding citizen who just likes to carry a gun around." Or "maybe I should call a professional who's trained to figure out what people are up too to check this situation and make sure everyone is safe."

    I know which thought I'd sleep better at night with if I was wrong in my thinking.

    Now assume the MWAG call comes in. The information given to the dispatcher could be anything. Who knows what is told to them or what information they can get from the caller. This is completely out of the responding officers' hands but sets the tone for how they will respond.

    So lets assume for your "what if" all thats told the officer is "man with a gun, mall parking lot"

    Now what should the officers' thoughts be? "I'm sure he means no harm, I'm sure he's just some law abiding citizen who just likes to carry a gun around." OR "This person may have some bad intent here. I won't know that untill I've talked to them a bit. They have the upper hand because they already know what they intend to do. I must try to figure that out all while keeping the public, myself and the subject safe from harm. I think I will be very careful and alert until I am satisfied that this is a legal action."

    Now, if your life depended on whether or not you were correct with that thought, which one would you have?

    The best thing you you to do in your situation is to avoid getting the police called in the first place. I have carried a gun off duty for many years and try very hard to make sure no one knows I'm armed. While I don't have to worry about loading my gun leaving my vehicle, I do grab it from between the seats and tuck it into my waist band. I make sure I am not seen by ANYONE.

    I also think about a plan of action of what I would do if someone happened to see my gun and the police were called on me. That plan consists of COMPLETE co-operation and compliance. Even thought I know that I am totally legal and right in my actions. I also understand the responding officers duties.

    I just do not understand why anyone would walk around with a gun in plain sight and not be wearing a uniform. Why not just wear a shirt that says "Hey Bad guy, Shoot me first, I'm armed"

    My contacts with open carry advocates, which has been few, has been that they WANT everyone to know they have a gun on them. They want the police to be called so they can have a confrontation, so they can make a "bad police" video. It has nothing to do with protection or a constitutional right.
    John

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cornfed1100 View Post
    Why should we sign up for a license to utilize a right covered under the bill of rights and Ohio law?
    Because open carry is not a great idea or the greatest of tactics. Ask a cop. We do it for a living. I'm not addressing the other question counselor since it is already being addressed. (and this is just my observation, by the way, and one size does not fit all)
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    too many good points in this thread to even start with - but I'm with Lew on this one - gonna keep my mouth shut and repost part from my other thread...

    the problem with religious zealots is that no matter how much you believe in their right to make a point - and maybe even believe in their point - they don't ever believe in your right to tell them they might be going about it the wrong way

    you are striking me as one who is trying to start a fight over something that we believe in - and swear to protect - and for some reason, you think cops are trying to tear it down... you got the wrong ones
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    Cornfed1100 is offline Officer First Class
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    you are striking me as one who is trying to start a fight over something that we believe in - and swear to protect - and for some reason, you think cops are trying to tear it down... you got the wrong ones
    I won't dispute this. (see above quote) I am an admittedy hippocritical on this issue. If I was LEO I would treat a MWAG call with extreme caution in a mall parking lot. I would also ask a few questions of the guy loading his gun in the mall parking lot. I may even try to indoctrinate him towards my beliefs.
    I am also regretting thinking that way. I'd like to see every honest person openly carrying with out fear of being questioned by those that feel the need to be inquisitive of intent. I'd prefer we all were honorable in our intentions. Reality dictates people's fears make the MWAG call and LEO has to face it good or bad. I have a solid respect for LEO. I couldn't handle the crap LEO gets fed daily from all sides. Dispatchers, pro gunners, union issues, druggies, wife beaters, and drug runners would have me being judge and jury daily.
    I love spirited debate. I confess I have no solid answers. Your opinions and responses are appreciated.

    I'm a lover not a fighter! LOL




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    Frank and respectful discussion is welcome here Cornfed. Honestly an adult disagreement that makes our verifieds think is very welcome too.
    lewisipso likes this.

    Meanwhile, fishing in Russia:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkzV5AIK8iM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cornfed1100 View Post
    I won't dispute this. (see above quote) I am an admittedy hippocritical on this issue. If I was LEO I would treat a MWAG call with extreme caution in a mall parking lot. I would also ask a few questions of the guy loading his gun in the mall parking lot. I may even try to indoctrinate him towards my beliefs.
    I am also regretting thinking that way. I'd like to see every honest person openly carrying with out fear of being questioned by those that feel the need to be inquisitive of intent. I'd prefer we all were honorable in our intentions. Reality dictates people's fears make the MWAG call and LEO has to face it good or bad. I have a solid respect for LEO. I couldn't handle the crap LEO gets fed daily from all sides. Dispatchers, pro gunners, union issues, druggies, wife beaters, and drug runners would have me being judge and jury daily.
    I love spirited debate. I confess I have no solid answers. Your opinions and responses are appreciated.

    I'm a lover not a fighter! LOL




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    In a perfect world it would be nice to have openly armed people so common it didn't alarm anyone. And if anyone tried to start shooting up a public place they'd be gunned down by all their potential victims and 911 would be for cleaning up the dead bad guy. Until then, cops are going to get called and we'll have to balance public safety, our safety, and the constitution to make sure everything is is legal.
    Pleasing nobody, one person at a time.

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    I'm all for people carrying guns to protect themselves and their loved ones. They may be the ones who save my life someday.

    The problem with most open carriers, is the same reason as you never see the tens of thousands of times a cop does the job right. It flies under the radar. The only ones you hear about are the ones who A) like this guy, try to get as much attention as they can, or B) purposely try to start confrontations over it

    I do not see one single tactical benefit to carrying openly when one can carry concealed.
    The world would be much cleaner if blind people carried brooms instead of sticks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cornfed1100 View Post
    I may even try to indoctrinate him towards my beliefs.
    I am also regretting thinking that way. ... I confess I have no solid answers. Your opinions and responses are appreciated....
    this post right here brings a whole new outlook on you from me - the fact you even have your eyes open to the dilemma we face when going on these calls tells me that you have may have a good head on your shoulders

    I still say concealed is the way to go

    an old friend of mine told me that you know it's a true moral dilemma when that knot rises from the pit of your stomach when someone brings a topic up to you - and this is one of those topics...

    so, I'll throw it back in your court - how do YOU think the average OC citizen (non-felon, etc) should be treated in today's environment, with today's media attention on firearms/violence/and crime - knowing that most sheeple see a gun and think "OMG, he's going to shoot/rob/cause great bodily harm to someone"...
    -=Twan007


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    Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious.





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    Cornfed1100 is offline Officer First Class
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twan007 View Post
    this post right here brings a whole new outlook on you from me - the fact you even have your eyes open to the dilemma we face when going on these calls tells me that you have may have a good head on your shoulders

    I still say concealed is the way to go

    an old friend of mine told me that you know it's a true moral dilemma when that knot rises from the pit of your stomach when someone brings a topic up to you - and this is one of those topics...

    so, I'll throw it back in your court - how do YOU think the average OC citizen (non-felon, etc) should be treated in today's environment, with today's media attention on firearms/violence/and crime - knowing that most sheeple see a gun and think "OMG, he's going to shoot/rob/cause great bodily harm to someone"...
    I'm standing on the fact that no law is violated by OC. The worried sheeple needs educated.
    If I was approached by LEO I would respectfully decline to offer any ID. I would remain silent. I would politely decline any search or seizure.
    My concern is a LEO that's fearful of OC would violate my rights the same as the dill hole in Detroit did. I'm prepared to fight the legal battle that could come from me standing up for my freedoms.
    MWAG calls are a report of a legal activity and should not require an officers time.
    While I understand an officers concern, it's not my job to justify a legal activity to him. That's where LEO training should come into play.
    That's the main reason so many choose to OC. It's a matter of trying to normalize a right.
    Admittedly, this can backfire and create legislation infringing on the protected right to Carry.
    I treat all LEO with respect. I have been in the passenger seat of a cruiser enough to understand the dilemma of what justifies the need to interview. From behind a badge I would conduct an interview to seek motives of the OC. As the open carrier I would not feel the need to justify my legal act of OC. Therefore to protect myself I'd decline any consensual search or seizure. I'd remain silent (also my right). I'd record the encounter and report any violation of my rights. The act of OC in Ohio is not Justification for a Terry stop.


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    Well, you mention Detroit. Truly a bastion of individual rights and a place where the individual is valued over the group. Cornfed, I'll tell you like I tell all the OH transplants to AL (strangely I've ran into several over the years). STOP VOTING DEMOCRAT!!!! Most of all these "bad" OC experiences I've seen on videos and heard of happen in blue states. Wonder why that happens like that?
    CTR man likes this.

    Meanwhile, fishing in Russia:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkzV5AIK8iM
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