Permit holder

**Cornfed1100** · 08-03-12, 06:54 AM

We've been doing some discussion on another thread about being able to identify yourself if you're in shooting scenario.
I found this cool wallet that'll hold a concealed carry permit and concealed carry badge that I could show an officer to keep me safe.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1343990946.231051.jpg

Tapatalk requires no training for things like spelling, accuracy, clarity, cohesiveness or manners.

**rob84** · 08-03-12, 08:18 AM

I just laminated mine and keep it in my wallet. I can see the badge creating some confusion, especially since the permit and badge are in a separate wallet.

**HudsonHawk** · 08-03-12, 09:24 AM

I don't see that as being beneficial.

There are people who use fake badges like that to impersonate police. While an actual concealed carry permit typically indicates that the person has no or limited criminal history, it doesn't mean that they aren't the bad guy when confronted. I've arrested people with concealed carry permits for DWI, felony drug possession, crimes involving the use of their legally owned firearm, people that are known gang members, etc.

While someone having a firearm may help bring a quicker end to an incident, the person must still comply with police orders. If I respond to a shooting in progress, and you don't obey my orders to drop your gun, you may be shot. If two civilians are armed it may be difficult for me to quickly determine who is a suspect and/or victim. Your pulling out a fake badge will in no way make me automatically think you're a "good guy". Heck, it does not even mean that you actually have a permit. I would expect you to obey my directions, and you may be detained until we sort out who is the perp.

**jmur5074** · 08-03-12, 09:45 AM

I recall a university (can't remember which one) that did a study on armed off duty encounters.

They had a few hundred officers on a F.A.T.S type machine respond to a weapons call and when they arrived on the "scene" they encountered multiple people and they had to determine which one was the bad guy, and which one was the off duty LEO.

The study found that the "responding" officers often times would shoot the off duty cop who presented a neck or wallet badge as opposed to an off duty who followed commands to prone out, or were empty handed.

The off duty officer that had an item in his hand but was never shot (like the empty handed officer or off duty who followed commands) was an off duty with a pair of handcuffs in his hands.

**Xiphos** · 08-03-12, 10:54 AM

Since any clown can buy a badge and wave it around this means nothing to me. Frankly, pointing something dark at me in low light is definitely going to get you shot if I'm responding to a shooting or gun call.

**pgg** · 08-03-12, 04:06 PM

**Jks9199** · 08-03-12, 06:44 PM

Originally Posted by Xiphos

Since any clown can buy a badge and wave it around this means nothing to me. Frankly, pointing something dark at me in low light is definitely going to get you shot if I'm responding to a shooting or gun call.

They're a bad idea, just like Private Investigator badges, and in many cases, security badges outside of uniformed roles. They too easily tempt to misunderstandings and mistaken identities. And that's if I give the situation the benefit of the doubt.

It's real simple - whether off duty cop, plainclothes working cop, or civilian. If you've had to pull a gun out, when the uniforms get there -- put the gun down. Follow their directions, 110%. ID yourself appropriately, when you can, and when they can listen. That may mean after you've been cuffed. Let's put this in some real terms... Let's say that I go out to the store, and walk in just as the place is being robbed. It's a glaringly obvious robbery, and I'm alone, so I'm not worried about my family's safety as I act. Great... I take a position of cover, and confront the robber as he walks out. He goes "OH CRAP" and hits the ground... Meanwhile, the store is calling 911. Local PD rolls up. There's a chance that a number of the patrol units would recognize me -- but I'm not relying on it. So -- Johnny Patrolman sees me, holding my gun on this guy on the ground. He orders me to drop my gun -- I DO IT! Meanwhile, I'm probably going to yell "I'm a cop" once or twice, as I continue to follow directions. When he gets closer, I'm probably going to ID myself again, and may tell him where my creds are. I'm not making a move without direction or approval. The key is that THE UNIFORMED COP ON DUTY is in charge.

**Xiphos** · 08-03-12, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by Jks9199

The key is that THE UNIFORMED COP ON DUTY is in charge.

No way! Cops can't disarm law abiding citizens! Can't you tell he's a good guy proning the robber out and can do whatever he wants with his gun?

**Cornfed1100** · 08-03-12, 07:23 PM

Originally Posted by Xiphos

No way! Cops can't disarm law abiding citizens! Can't you tell he's a good guy proning the robber out and can do whatever he wants with his gun?

Unless he is in Indiana.
I'd hate to be LEO there.

Tapatalk requires no training for things like spelling, accuracy, clarity, cohesiveness or manners.