Well, the Chief did it to me again... Is there any other way???

**TXCharlie** · 06-08-06, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by tjpuclik2

Yeah it's called getting a CHL, CCW or whatever it's called in another state the Texas has Reciprocity with, like Nevada or Flordia Non-Resident permits! Then after you get it, get rid of your Texas permit. Case Closed....

...Next Please!

You're a genious!!! I never thought of that!!!
Norm, which is the best State to get it in?

But naaa, I don't want to do anything underhanded like that that would destroy trust between the PD & group, if it were to come to light that I had one. And I want to enjoy the experience, not looking over my shoulder all the time wondering when they'd find out. I know all they could do is kick me out of the patrols for good if they found out I had a CHL from another state, but that would be painful for me.

As someone said, my best option is probably something like the Dallas Reserves... There would be no mountains to climb over there, and from all I hear from a extended family member on the force, Chief Knuckle is a breath of fresh air and very progressive.

I have a knee operation to get over first, but I hear that they've relaxed their physical standards enough for Reserve Academy, that I could probably get in after loosing a few more pounds.

After sleeping on it some more, that should be my ultimate goal I think.

Thanks to you all!!! - I feel a lot better now!!!

.

**Virginian** · 06-08-06, 10:47 AM

Does a CHL from another state not show up when you run a person?

**Sapper_132** · 06-08-06, 11:06 AM

If I were to run a drivers license check on a guy out of Texas, but he has a Non-Resident CCW in say Florida then no. Now if I ran him in a differant manner (on a more national level) then yes it would be found.

But if I was told that I couldn't have one for the State that I was in and was questioned later. I'd pull the reg out on them.

**TXCharlie** · 06-08-06, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by Virginian

Does a CHL from another state not show up when you run a person?

I've never asked that question of anyone

Also one other point I wanted to mention, is that I have no intention of appearing weak by handing in my Texas CHL - That's just not gonna happen. My CHL is worth more than the COP program.

Besides, you could say that I'm on a Citizen's Patrol every time I get in my car or walk into a 7-11. Everyone with a cell phone is on a Citizen's Patrol, they're just not in the right places at the right time, and aren't very observant

.

**TheeBadOne** · 06-08-06, 11:13 AM

In this day and age it might just be a "liability thing" where the City Attorney has offered his opinion (and the City always goes with it). Every PD has had a few things shoved down their throat for the dreaded "liability" concerns. Ask any Dept that started it's 1st K9 program w/in the last 5 or so years......

**Virginian** · 06-08-06, 11:19 AM

Yeah I was going to say, you may as well just make your own organization, like a club, if you really want to do this. I don't know how bad the crime is in your area, so I don't know if it's really worth it. To make this worthwile at all, as something other than a police booster club, the department would have to start an auxiliary or special police program, which costs a fair amount of money.

**TXCharlie** · 06-08-06, 11:28 AM

Yeah, our property crime rates per 100,000 residents are one-fifth that of Dallas' crime rates (and virtually no street crime)... However, up until last year, the crime rates doubled in the span of about 4-5 years.

Most of that is garage thefts and vehicle burglaries, so I think a visible Citizen's Patrol would have some deterrent effect to stop the rising crimes, but I don't know how much.

Also our published UCR crime rates are preceeding a huge boom in retail development here - Next years' rates may increase again. I guess we'll see.

Thanks again

FishTail · 06-08-06, 03:01 PM

If it's a liability issue you might like to try this approach:

Offer to take a course consisting of the TCLEOSE modules on use of force and firearms. A bit like the CA POST PC832 course. Maybe using the certification course for retired officers.

That way, you're trained to the same requirements as an officer in the use of firearms, thus reducing your liability.

**Sapper_132** · 06-08-06, 03:09 PM

Good idea!

**TXCharlie** · 06-08-06, 04:34 PM

He'd probably reject that too, in that he does not allow any TCLEOSE-certified Reserve Officers on the force, either.

His repeated statements are that if he cannot control an officers' livelihood, then he feels that he has no real control over them (he just said it again in front of everyone Tuesday nite)... He cannot control a Reserve officer's livelihood unless they do something criminal, whereas he can stop a paid officer's paycheck.

And in the case of volunteers, he will have control over them via criminal charges if they disobey the rule against firearms, but only if they don't have a CHL... That's why my offer to provide a $5,000 civil penality wasn't good enough - It would not affect my livelihood, because I could simply withdraw it from my 401(k) to pay it off.

Actually he said my contract would not be enforcable, but I beg to differ, since I have equity in my home, which they could put a lien on fairly easily. Even though they may not be able to collect a lien till I sell the house, it would screw up my credit score, thus affecting my livelihood.

Oh well.. nice thought. Maybe he'll have a change of heart later, and if so, I would be thrilled, but in the meantime, the more I think on it, the happier I'm beginning to feel about being excluded

.

**Terminator** · 06-08-06, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by TXCharlie

Actually he said my contract would not be enforcable, but I beg to differ...

Actually, he's right, the contract wouldn't hold up in court, if it was contested. Just like signing a waiver for a police ride-a-long won't release the department from civil liability, and just like a police department making you sign a contract saying you'll stay with them a certain pre-determined amount of time cannot be legally enforced.

**Jks9199** · 06-08-06, 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by Virginian

Does a CHL from another state not show up when you run a person?

It depends on if it's entered into DMV or other searchable files. In some cases, they may automatically query into the CCW files, but I wouldn't rely on that. I'm pretty confident there's no national file on it.

**TXCharlie** · 06-08-06, 09:32 PM

I've never heard of a Performance Contract not being enforcable, although I do see that it may not be worth the legal fees to enforce.

So what would it have to be, a cash bond???

If contracts are not enforcable, I don't know how any business gets done. Employment contracts are different - That gets into "Slave Labor" provisions, I think

FishTail · 06-08-06, 09:34 PM

If TX law has followed English common law, execute it as a deed, not a contract

**Jks9199** · 06-08-06, 09:35 PM

Originally Posted by LawEnforcementForums

Actually, he's right, the contract wouldn't hold up in court, if it was contested. Just like signing a waiver for a police ride-a-long won't release the department from civil liability, and just like a police department making you sign a contract saying you'll stay with them a certain pre-determined amount of time cannot be legally enforced.

Be careful with assumptions; some waivers are enforceable, and work agreements, depending on the contract's wording and state precedent are enforceable.

**TXCharlie** · 06-08-06, 09:42 PM

Originally Posted by LongTail

If TX law has followed English common law, execute it as a deed, not a contract

Now I think my head is going to explode - I still have memories from my first & only attempted land deal back in the 1980's

FishTail · 06-08-06, 09:51 PM

He he he...for God's sake don't follow my advice on Texas law!

**Terminator** · 06-09-06, 12:16 AM

Originally Posted by Jks9199

Be careful with assumptions; some waivers are enforceable, and work agreements, depending on the contract's wording and state precedent are enforceable.

I don't make assumptions...I make statements based on fact.

**SWAT80** · 06-18-06, 10:47 AM

Wow that is stupid.

**TXCharlie** · 06-19-06, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by SWAT80

Wow that is stupid.

Which is stupid, the Chief banning CHL holders, or my wanting to join the Neighborhood Watch Patrols??? From the response I've gotten so far, it could be either

BTW, I'm looking into forming a non-profit Crime Prevention Patrol organization that allows only CHL holders (which relieves me of having to do as through of a background check).

There is a specific chapter in Texas Civil law which specifically limits liability of a nonprofit formed to do neighborhood patrols to the insurance coverage of the members (if I understand it correctly). I'm gonna contact a lawyer about it.

There's always more than one way to skin a cat.

I would prefer we be trained & supervised by the PD, but oh well... Once we're incorporated, we may fall under the PD's criteria as a Neighborhood Watch group - In which case the PD would support us (I guess??? - They claim to support Neighborhood Watch groups on their web site, but I have no idea what the criteria is. I'm not sure it would buy us much to be recognized, anyway, as far as training and supervision).