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  1. #1
    TXCharlie's Avatar
    TXCharlie is offline Former & Future Reserve Officer
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    Angry Well, the Chief did it to me again... Is there any other way???

    As a few of you know, I've been pushing for Citizens On Patrol in our town for about 3 years now, but the PD has always disallowed it based on liability. It's been an emotional rollercoaster all the way, involving the Mayor, Town Council and all that trying to get past the liability paranoia.

    Well, the Chief finally approved it... Last night we had a meeting... Then I come to find out that members who have CHL's (Concealed handgun Licenses) - which I do - are automatically banned from the program. I don't know whether to cuss or cry

    At the meeting last night, I offered to sign a legally binding contract allowing them to search my car at any time while I'm on patrol, and which also specifies a $5,000 fine if I have a gun.

    Hell, I'll make it $10k, because I'm not going to break the rules - I proved that in another city where I quit when they came out with rules against carrying pepper spray. I could have broken the rules, but I didn't.

    But, the Chief said the only way I could join the program is relinquish my CHL license, so it'd be illegal to carry a gun (I told him that there was NO WAY that would EVER happen).

    Supposedly, his goal is to keep patrol members on a legal leash by making it illegal to carry a gun - But the stupid thing is, they could STILL legally carry a loaded rifle or shotgun in their patrol car - Nothing forbids doing that in Texas (as far as I know). So he really accomplished nothing

    I think this is all B.S. retalliation for being a pain in his butt, because neighboring towns don't have this requirement - but his only requirement is to make it illegal to carry a pistol while on patrol - So is there a way that I could legally refute my CHL for the short time I'm on patrol, while retaining it when not on patrol???

    I've racked my brain, and can't think of a way.

    It's really a turn of events when you see me trying to give up my rights, but I've worked hard to get to this point, and I believe in the program.

    If I can't think of a way, I'm probably done with this PD for good, because I'm tired of messing with the old coot.
    Last edited by TXCharlie; 06-07-06 at 08:35 PM.

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  2. #2
    Just KC's Avatar
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    Hi,
    I am new here, just wanted to chime in. I am on our counties CCOP and they are big about weapons too. I believe they have the same rules. We just FINALLY got approval to carry radios. Everyone on CCOP has to pass the test of codes and phonetic alphabet to get the radios in our trucks. I know in other counties near us, they have the authority to carry cuffs and write citations. I do think it sucks they aren't taking your word on not carrying your gun while on COP patrol. You would think they rather have people honest and sign a paper stating they won't, than having the worry of others hiding it. Hope you get it all figured out!
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  3. #3
    Virginian's Avatar
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    That is absolutely ridiculous. You pass the background check and do the paperwork to legally carry a gun, yet they don't trust you to leave it at home if ordered? What a joke. I assume you aren't allowed to open carry down there?

  4. #4
    FishTail Guest
    I smell a lawsuit for unfair discrimination coming on...probably in Federal Court.


  5. #5
    Virginian's Avatar
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    I smell a comparison to the Boy Scouts excluding gays, atheists and females

  6. #6
    TXCharlie's Avatar
    TXCharlie is offline Former & Future Reserve Officer
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongTail
    I smell a lawsuit for unfair discrimination coming on...probably in Federal Court.

    Actually, I thought of seeking the NRA on him - I'm a Life Member. They could give him some bad press, if nothing else

    But I don't want to damage the very program I pushed for.

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  7. #7
    FishTail Guest
    Which do you think is more important? A COPS program or a COPS program that allows CHL holders on it?

  8. #8
    TXCharlie's Avatar
    TXCharlie is offline Former & Future Reserve Officer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virginian
    That is absolutely ridiculous. You pass the background check and do the paperwork to legally carry a gun, yet they don't trust you to leave it at home if ordered? What a joke. I assume you aren't allowed to open carry down there?
    Nope, we can open-carry long guns I think (except for the purpose of inciting fear or committing a crime, I think is the way the law reads - I'm paraphrasing from memory - I'd never want to try it, another CHL guy may blow me away ). But we can't open-carry pistols.

    Since we passed the new Peacible Traveling provisions, though, the burdon of proof lies with the State on whether or not you're on what they consider "Traveling" (a long trip) - You can take a pistol in your car if you're "Traveling", but can't pack it around, concealed or unconcealed.

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  9. #9
    TXCharlie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongTail
    Which do you think is more important? A COPS program or a COPS program that allows CHL holders on it?
    A COPS program with me in it!!!

    Like I said, I don't want to damage the program... I just wish there was a way to sign over my rights temporarily, and I'd do it - but not permanently.

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  10. #10
    FishTail Guest
    What you also have to think about is this: if you piss the Chief off that much his officers just might start to pay "extra attention" to the COPS when they're out and about. 5 mph over, rolling a stop sign etc.

  11. #11
    TXCharlie's Avatar
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    More than likely, he'd cancel the program before he did that - That sorta thing got the last Chief fired.

    I've thought of starting up a private patrol group, with the pissed-off people who have CHL's. May do that, I haven't decided. Then we could be armed, legally, and really piss him off

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  12. #12
    FishTail Guest
    All depends on how you want to relate to the local police. If you went against my Chief's wishes and started acting all pissy I'd probably consider you a bunch of losers and wannabes and dismiss you out of hand, without bothering to get to know you. Which, to my mind, kinda defeats the purpose of COPS in the first place.

    I'd play along with the Chief and let the program settle in before pushing for change regarding CHL holders. Don't hit him with too much at once.

  13. #13
    Andrewtx's Avatar
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    Ridiculous.

  14. #14
    Operator13's Avatar
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    Sorry to hear you're having problems becoming involved with the program.

    Some people assume because you have a CCW you have an agenda, they don't consider you have rights.

    EDIT: Wrong forum, Ignore post.
    Last edited by Operator13; 06-07-06 at 10:22 PM.
    "The statements and opinions contained in this communication do not necessarily reflect the official position of the Commission regarding these issues."

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by [B
    So is there a way that I could legally refute my CHL for the short time I'm on patrol, while retaining it when not on patrol??? [/B]

    I've racked my brain, and can't think of a way.

    It's really a turn of events when you see me trying to give up my rights, but I've worked hard to get to this point, and I believe in the program.

    If I can't think of a way, I'm probably done with this PD for good, because I'm tired of messing with the old coot.
    Yeah it's called getting a CHL, CCW or whatever it's called in another state the Texas has Reciprocity with, like Nevada or Flordia Non-Resident permits! Then after you get it, get rid of your Texas permit. Case Closed....

    ...Next Please!
    Just because your sign off after you're shift is done, doesn't mean that it's over and put blinders on. You're a cop 24/7 wether you like it or not. If thats something you can't handle, you should find a new line of work!

  16. #16
    Andrewtx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tjpuclik2
    Yeah it's called getting a CHL, CCW or whatever it's called in another state the Texas has Reciprocity with, like Nevada or Flordia Non-Resident permits! Then after you get it, get rid of your Texas permit. Case Closed....

    ...Next Please!


    Hey that's a great idea.

  17. #17
    Terminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TXCharlie
    I've thought of starting up a private patrol group, with the pissed-off people who have CHL's. May do that, I haven't decided. Then we could be armed, legally, and really piss him off

    That would be a really bad idea. If you wanna be a cop, meet the requirements, apply, go thru the hiring process and academy and hope you get hired.

  18. #18
    Vendetta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LawEnforcementForums
    That would be a really bad idea. If you wanna be a cop, meet the requirements, apply, go thru the hiring process and academy and hope you get hired.
    Thats what I was thinking
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  19. #19
    conalabu is offline Grasshopper
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    TXcharlie, I agree with LEOForums. I was initially confused because I thought you were already LEO and I was trying to figure out what kind of touch monkey chief was saying his guys couldn't carry while they were on patrol. But... Not LEO? Scary situation. Not for them, for you. Carrying puts a big fat target on you that says "shoot me first". COP is a great idea, but the idea behind it, in my eyes, is to augment the police, not [U]be[U] the police, ya know what I mean? Cuffs, guns... leave that to the guys that get paid to do that crap. Honestly, I don't know why you would want that responsibility or why you would open yourself up to the liability. Yeah, it is cool and everything, but cool sucks when you are getting sued for popping the cuffs on somebody or you get shot by a guy who thinks you are the real deal. If you want all the toys and the BS that goes with the toys, get on with a PD or SO and come play with us. If you don't want the nasty, low paying job that we have all come to love, then don't ask for the toys, man. Not trying to be rude or nothing, just saying, you are asking for all the benefits with none of the crap that goes with it.

  20. #20
    me again's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TXCharlie
    As a few of you know, I've been pushing for Citizens On Patrol in our town for about 3 years now, but the PD has always disallowed it based on liability. It's been an emotional rollercoaster all the way, involving the Mayor, Town Council and all that trying to get past the liability paranoia.

    Well, the Chief finally approved it... Last night we had a meeting... Then I come to find out that members who have CHL's (Concealed handgun Licenses) - which I do - are automatically banned from the program. I don't know whether to cuss or cry

    At the meeting last night, I offered to sign a legally binding contract allowing them to search my car at any time while I'm on patrol, and which also specifies a $5,000 fine if I have a gun.

    Hell, I'll make it $10k, because I'm not going to break the rules - I proved that in another city where I quit when they came out with rules against carrying pepper spray. I could have broken the rules, but I didn't.

    But, the Chief said the only way I could join the program is relinquish my CHL license, so it'd be illegal to carry a gun (I told him that there was NO WAY that would EVER happen).

    Supposedly, his goal is to keep patrol members on a legal leash by making it illegal to carry a gun - But the stupid thing is, they could STILL legally carry a loaded rifle or shotgun in their patrol car - Nothing forbids doing that in Texas (as far as I know). So he really accomplished nothing

    I think this is all B.S. retalliation for being a pain in his butt, because neighboring towns don't have this requirement - but his only requirement is to make it illegal to carry a pistol while on patrol - So is there a way that I could legally refute my CHL for the short time I'm on patrol, while retaining it when not on patrol???

    I've racked my brain, and can't think of a way.

    It's really a turn of events when you see me trying to give up my rights, but I've worked hard to get to this point, and I believe in the program.

    If I can't think of a way, I'm probably done with this PD for good, because I'm tired of messing with the old coot.
    That's bizarre. They should allow you to be in the program, but if they don't want you to carry a gun, they should simply stipulate it in a liability-contract that you would sign, agreeing not to carry a gun while participating in the program. Weird.

 

 
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