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  1. #21
    Retdetsgt's Avatar
    Retdetsgt is offline How did I get here!
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    Glad you chimed in. I enlisted in July 1964, about a month before the Gulf of Tonkin. There were a few deadheads in my basic training at Ft Polk, but some pretty bright guys too. Not much different from the guys in my high school class, some winners, some losers. Most were average.

    I was sent to school for an electronics MOS, graduated and could have probably finished my hitch either stateside or Europe repairing tube type computers. I had a 125 on my ASVAB, nothing to write home about, but high enough that I was offered a chance to go to OCS. They pumped my 20 year old brain in 1966 with enough BS that I did it and went to Benning. I naively thought I could make a career of the army as an officer. I graduated, was put in infantry, sent to Vietnam with a Lt Infantry brigade and assigned to a recon company. That was in the fall of 1966.

    I had pretty much the whole spectrum in my platoon. A few the NCO's had to keep an eye on, but most were pretty good soldiers and like soldiers everywhere, we were fighting for each other, not the old man, God or country. The only people I gave a shit about were the ones with me everyday. The goal was do our job and live through it. Nothing spectacular, nothing particularly heroic. But frankly, when push came to shove, I couldn't tell the draftees from the RA's. I didn't lose many guys, but I lost a few and I think about them just about every single day. I guess that's another reason I'm more than a little sensitive about criticism concerning them. Everyone lost was a draftee, but they weren't killed because they were uneducated or stupid.

    I came back, was assigned to BS jobs stateside at Fort Sam to fulfill the rest of my 4 year obligation and then was told I couldn't keep my commisson. Frankly, had I known that, I would have probably finished my orginial 3 year enlistment and gone home.

    The only info I have about the later military was my youngest daughter was in the Seabees. I don't know if it was just the Navy, but from she told me, discipline is a bit different from when I was in. Some stories she told me about her basic made me roll my eyes. Way back when, some of those people would have been discharged on the spot for some of the attitude displayed. I just assumed it was because enlistees were harder to come by, but again, I don't know.

    But I'm equally proud of her, she did 6 years, serving some time in Bosnia. She did the combat training right along side the men and held up her end.

    Added as a note, I was extremely fortunate in that I worked for a CO that sat me down early and gave me a reality check when I arrived in country. I won't go into it, but I think he was the key to my and a lot of people in that company's survival. It was all about attitude and the reality of what we were doing.
    When I used to be somebody (I'm center top)

    "A burning desire for social justice is never a substitute for knowing what you're talking about". -Thomas Sowell-

  2. #22
    MacLean's Avatar
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    I had the pleasure of working with a former female Seabee on a government contract.

    She was smart as a whip, and lives up here in Washington State.
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


    I was looking for a saint who was a devil of a lover,
    but every girl I found was either one way or the other...



  3. #23
    Retdetsgt's Avatar
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    I'm sorry, guys. I gotta bow out of this discussion. I have all the respect in the world for everyone serving now and in the past, but I had a rough night last night. The PTSD is cranking up. Nobody's fault but my own.

    Love all you guys, seriously.

    Jim
    When I used to be somebody (I'm center top)

    "A burning desire for social justice is never a substitute for knowing what you're talking about". -Thomas Sowell-

  4. #24
    Five-0's Avatar
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    Don't worry about it man.

    Meanwhile, fishing in Russia:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkzV5AIK8iM
    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." -- Frederic Bastiat

    "Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter." Ernest Hemingway

    The opinions given in my signatures & threads DO NOT reflect the opinions, views, policies, and/or procedures of my employing agency. They are my personal opinions only, thereby releasing my agency of any liability, or involvement in anything posted under the username "Five-0" on Officerresource.com

  5. #25
    MacLean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Retdetsgt View Post
    I'm sorry, guys. I gotta bow out of this discussion. I have all the respect in the world for everyone serving now and in the past, but I had a rough night last night. The PTSD is cranking up. Nobody's fault but my own.

    Love all you guys, seriously.

    Jim
    Here any time for you, sir.

    I learned some stuff - appreciate the conversation.
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


    I was looking for a saint who was a devil of a lover,
    but every girl I found was either one way or the other...



  6. #26
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    armsmaster270 is offline Ret. Sac. P.D. - 270th M.P. Co., Now with D.H.S.
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    Due to all the different fronts we are presently fighting the military has relaxed its standards to meet recruiting levels and a lot of bad eggs are let in and not culled in boot camp.


    Pretty women make us BUY beer. Ugly women make us DRINK beer. --Al Bundy

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  7. #27
    Rhino's Avatar
    Rhino is offline Meat-eater & Fire-breather
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    Quote Originally Posted by 213th View Post
    Anyone who read their enlistment contract would know they enlisted for 8 years regardless of how many they did active.
    I'm not arguing, because a contract is a contract. But come on. How many 17-19 year-old privates you think there are out there that carefully read their enlistment contract?

    By the time MEPS was done with me I was so ready to get the hell out of there and go back to my hotel, I wouldn't have signed a contract that promised Satan my imortal soul without reading it carefully if it meant getting me the hell out of there.
    "If everyone is thinking alike, then someone isn't thinking." -Gen. George S. Patton

  8. #28
    213th's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhino View Post
    I'm not arguing, because a contract is a contract. But come on. How many 17-19 year-old privates you think there are out there that carefully read their enlistment contract?

    By the time MEPS was done with me I was so ready to get the hell out of there and go back to my hotel, I wouldn't have signed a contract that promised Satan my imortal soul without reading it carefully if it meant getting me the hell out of there.
    No, most of them probably would not. But they did also tell us all in boot
    He who has the money, signs the cheques.
    He who signs the cheques, makes the rules.
    He who makes the rules, has the power.
    He who has the power, has the money.

  9. #29
    MacLean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhino View Post
    I'm not arguing, because a contract is a contract. But come on. How many 17-19 year-old privates you think there are out there that carefully read their enlistment contract?

    By the time MEPS was done with me I was so ready to get the hell out of there and go back to my hotel, I wouldn't have signed a contract that promised Satan my imortal soul without reading it carefully if it meant getting me the hell out of there.
    The idea is reinforced again when you raise your right hand at indoctrination at basic.

    If you didn't get that far, that is the one that counts.
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


    I was looking for a saint who was a devil of a lover,
    but every girl I found was either one way or the other...



  10. #30
    Retdetsgt's Avatar
    Retdetsgt is offline How did I get here!
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    It was so long ago, I don't remember who explained it to me, I don't think it was the recruiter, but I was told of my obligation before I signed.

    Back then, it was a six year commitment. I was told that after I served my active duty, I would be on inactive reserve status for the remainder of the 6 years. As it was, I served the full six, but there was no secret of that the contract was more than my initial active.

    Maybe with the all volunteer, the pressure on everyone is such that they try to hide it, I dunno? But I was 18, nearly 19 and knew exactly what I was signing up for w/o asking a lot of questions.
    When I used to be somebody (I'm center top)

    "A burning desire for social justice is never a substitute for knowing what you're talking about". -Thomas Sowell-

  11. #31
    irishmick's Avatar
    irishmick is offline Do not mistake my kindness for weakness.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhino View Post
    I'm not arguing, because a contract is a contract. But come on. How many 17-19 year-old privates you think there are out there that carefully read their enlistment contract?

    By the time MEPS was done with me I was so ready to get the hell out of there and go back to my hotel, I wouldn't have signed a contract that promised Satan my imortal soul without reading it carefully if it meant getting me the hell out of there.
    Well, no offense, but I really have no sympathy for them. I went through all the MEPS crap too, and yeah, wanted to get our of there. But that didn't mean I was going to just sign something I hadn't read and understood. That's on them.
    --"D.B.A.D." --Me

    --Life's tough...it's tougher if you're stupid.

    --"Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." -Elbert Hubbard

  12. #32
    ex401mp's Avatar
    ex401mp is offline Was betrachten Sie?
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    Nobody put a gun to anyone's head and made them sign.
    Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American G.I.
    One died for your soul, the other for your freedom. ~ Anon

    si hic carrus commovet non quaerete

    RIP Scott L. Roth- Pfc 1st Platoon,401st MP Co, KIA 12/20/89- Operation Just Cause- Not forgotten.
    ALWAYS FIRST!!!

  13. #33
    Retdetsgt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ex401mp View Post
    Nobody put a gun to anyone's head and made them sign.
    When Bush invaded Iraq, I remember reading about some wimp whining that he joined the Army to get an education, not to fight.

    Here's your sign.......
    When I used to be somebody (I'm center top)

    "A burning desire for social justice is never a substitute for knowing what you're talking about". -Thomas Sowell-

  14. #34
    ex401mp's Avatar
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    We had a guy here sucking up the pay from the national guard and when his unit got called up, he used every excuse he could not to go. That pissed me off to end. The kicker is that he was a Marine on active duty before, so he made to the other former Marines here pissed off so bad that they wont talk to him any more.
    Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American G.I.
    One died for your soul, the other for your freedom. ~ Anon

    si hic carrus commovet non quaerete

    RIP Scott L. Roth- Pfc 1st Platoon,401st MP Co, KIA 12/20/89- Operation Just Cause- Not forgotten.
    ALWAYS FIRST!!!

  15. #35
    Morris is offline Chief Wheaties Pisser
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    GIRL FIGHT!

  16. #36
    bone crusher's Avatar
    bone crusher is offline "Buck Savage is my hero"
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    I served my time and my IRR time is up in Sept. 09. it has been said time and time again that some people today arent joining for the "love of Country" or "Selfless Service". Today it is for "College Fund" or "Sign on Bonus". I have a buddy who is an Army Recruiter in my area and he stated last week there recruitment numbers are up 110% and they only have to catch 2 people a month, all training posts are stocked up and the closest ship out date they can get is about 4 months away. i asked him if he is getting promising people and he laughed and said mainly a bunch of college kids who's money dried up with the economy. Its sad to say but all the ones crying about being re-assigned to a unit again are a definate slap in the face for the rest of us vets who stood idley by and took the green weeny for the time we were in. Okay i'm dont ranting. lol.

  17. #37
    Retdetsgt's Avatar
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    I didn't sign up for love of country. I signed up because I just flunked out of college and the draft was breathing down my neck.... That and my Dad was giving me these "You still here?" looks whenever he saw me in the house..... There were no decent jobs around and I needed to do something. I served my country well and did it for six years, but I'm not going to wave the flag about it.

    In fact, I think I made about as much, if not more money off the GI Bill when I went back to college. I don't regret it for a second, but I'm sure not going to say I did it out of patriotism. In fact, I don't think I ever met anyone in the Army that didn't join out of some selfish reason.

    On the other hand, I didn't have any silly expectations about it either, especially when the Gulf of Tonkin incident happened while I was in basic training. Fortunately, my older brother was career Army and I had a idea of what was going to happen and the reality of the military in general. I knew about the GI Bill and hoped to use it, but it wasn't my primary motivation to join either.
    When I used to be somebody (I'm center top)

    "A burning desire for social justice is never a substitute for knowing what you're talking about". -Thomas Sowell-

  18. #38
    213th's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Retdetsgt View Post
    I didn't sign up for love of country. I signed up because I just flunked out of college and the draft was breathing down my neck.... That and my Dad was giving me these "You still here?" looks whenever he saw me in the house..... There were no decent jobs around and I needed to do something. I served my country well and did it for six years, but I'm not going to wave the flag about it.

    In fact, I think I made about as much, if not more money off the GI Bill when I went back to college. I don't regret it for a second, but I'm sure not going to say I did it out of patriotism. In fact, I don't think I ever met anyone in the Army that didn't join out of some selfish reason.

    On the other hand, I didn't have any silly expectations about it either, especially when the Gulf of Tonkin incident happened while I was in basic training. Fortunately, my older brother was career Army and I had a idea of what was going to happen and the reality of the military in general. I knew about the GI Bill and hoped to use it, but it wasn't my primary motivation to join either.
    I'd have to agree, most people I knew didn't join out of love for country. My basic training which was post 9/11 was asked why the joined. I don't recall but maybe one or two that said it was out of love for the country. And that's not wrong. Just when someone tries to wiggle their way out of doing their duty because they didn't think they ever actually have to fight.
    He who has the money, signs the cheques.
    He who signs the cheques, makes the rules.
    He who makes the rules, has the power.
    He who has the power, has the money.

  19. #39
    bone crusher's Avatar
    bone crusher is offline "Buck Savage is my hero"
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    Well RetDetSgt, you just met one. All males in my family dating back to ww2 "PROUDLY SERVED" in the Army for "LOVE OF COUNTRY". not mad at anyone that joins for other reasons, everyone DOES have there reasoning for joining, in your case i can see your reasoning for joining up and i applaud you for serving. I served with a group of guys that were all in it for various reasons as well, but our heads were in the game and never got "pissy" when the order for deployment came down the chain. in the time i was in i was deployed to quite a few area's for various "peace keeping/humanitarian" missions as well as lots of border time on the 95 grid line (Kuwait/Iraq border). My point to this is that If you sign up then honor your commitment, don't piss and moan when the military expects you to man up and fulfill it. Thank all of you that have served.
    My computer once beat me at Chess but it was no match for me at Kick Boxing

  20. #40
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    Car 4 is offline CID Chief
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    My grandfather was in the AEF (Allied Expeditionary Force) in France in WW I and again was a Coast Guard coast watcher in WW II. My dad was in the Army Air Corps in WW II. My grandmother worked for the Air Force for twenty five years. My uncle was in the Navy. I was in the Army and my brother was in the Corps at the same time during the VietNam years. Two of my sons are in now and a third son would be if he didn't have diabetes.

    We all served because of love of country and a committment to the safety of our families.

    Car 4
    I would like my country back. I used to believe that one man could never destroy this country. Not so sure anymore!

 

 
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