Has the military become easier? For example, basic combat training...etc.
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Has the military become easier? For example, basic combat training...etc.
I have no idea - some of the stuff I had to do to win my beret was rough, but it was all doable.
The old timers say it was.
I think Maclean is right...old timers will say how much harder it was.
When I went to basic in 98 at Benning, it was tough, but managable. I think it has become tougher because of the stupid regs and hoops that commanders and others have to jump through for the new "PC" army.
I know that the Army has lowered some standards for admission and schools. I am not sure how other services have done, but in this economy...I do know that recruiters are not hurting for people wanting to join up for insurance and a steady paycheck.
I watched a program on modern day AF basic training. It is by far much tougher today compared to mine in 1968. I've been told, all branches go through basically the same combat training to prepare them for Iraqi style warfare. Seems reasonable to me. At least the Army, Marines and Air Force. No water in the middle east.
Well, I am an old timer but I don't think I had it any harder than a modern soldier. I had a training Lt. who had gotten his orders for Nam and was convinced that we had to toughen up if we were going to Nam with him. So that bastard made us run to the beach ranges at Ord for the three weeks of rifle training. This was an 8 mile run with packs and an M-14....was not a lot of fun in the sun but we made it. Back and forth each day while the other companies road in cattle cars.
Other than that, it was all doable and not much of a challenge if you kept your wits about you and were in some kind of shape.
Car 4:D
Yeah I agree with mac and all, I wasn't in back then, so I can't say if it was tougher or not. I've heard from people who have switched from one branch to the air force say that the air force isn't as much in to the physical, but mentally/academically it was harder. But I was only in the Air Force so I don't know what it's like in the other branches
I went thru BCT in 1954. Being wild and wooley, I received my share of lumps but it was worth it; straightened my out. The Cadre (didn't have DIs then) didn't think twice of laying on the hands if needed.. Never knew that a SGT's hand flew at warp speed when I acted dumb or stupid. Go forward to the mid 80s. I go to Parris Island for my Grandson's graduation. When asked how it was, he stated "no bad at all." According to the DI, they can't chew out comeone without their "Battle Buddie" being present. Now to my younger GS who graduated from BCT at Ft Benning last year (and is now in Iraq); he says it was fun and the food was good.
Hey, it could be worse; he could have gone in the Air Force who call Basic Training "Campus Life" and marching "A stroll in the Park". :biggrin1::biggrin1:
Yeah, it was just like college.Quote:
Originally Posted by bayern
Between the ten mile runs and crawling under barbed wire, I hardly had time to get a date.
When I went in in 66, the Army had pretty much stopped thumping the dummies....but my brother went into the Corps at the same time and he got thumped plenty because of his attitude. The DI straightened him right out, though and he turned out just fine. I must have done a million pushups though...even though we didn't get hit. As a squad leader, I had to do pushups for each of my squad when they screwed up. That's when I learned to hate stupid people.Quote:
Originally Posted by bayern
Car 4:D
I went through Basic at Ft Leonard Wood, MO. Better known as Ft Lost in the Woods. :D Combat Engineer 12 Bravo. Right out of High School. I should have waited until I was 25 with a bit more life experience. Didn't graduate, had issues with homesickness and qualifying with the M16A1. Now that I look back on it, I should have stuck it out. Lots of PT, push ups, and 3 mile marches that mysteriously turned into 10 milers, or so it seemed. I can't recall much of any laying on of hands. I did hear of a SFC DI (E7) war veteran that got fed up with a few trainees and tried this a few times and got demoted out of the Army. He also swore a lot and had temper issues, maybe PTSD. More than some sailors are known for, as the saying goes. Seems that physical contact was not allowed in the mid '80s. The experience did help me to grow up some, though.
And to know now that I am a civilian employee of the military, Go Figure.
My father in law had somewhat of an easier time than most especially with one of his DI's. Seems that this particular DI found out that my father in law was LDS and thought that if he got pissed off that he would put a hex on him or something to that effect. Oy, the misinformation about my Christian faith. He was supposed to go to Viet Nam but somewhere along the way the Army lost his papers. He ended up being a DI himself at Ft Ord, CA and probably would have made a career out of the service until some idiot trainee had issues and went berserk out on the range and shot up a whole bunch of people. My f i l was shot in the knee and had to have reconstructive surgery thus ending his Army career. The trainee ended up going to Ft Leavenworth for his actions.
MCRD-San Diego, circa 1960, was - - - ummmm - - - interesting. Yeah, that's it - INTERESTING.
Senior DI (GySgt. Bill Moxley - never have forgotten his name - never will) was the meanest little SOB on this, or any other planet. (Looked exactly like Gunny Hartman in Full Metal Jacket. Ran chills up and down my spine when I saw that movie.) If I would run into him today, I would want to shake his hand (if he'd let me :biggrin1:) and thank him for all he did for me those many years ago.
Got many a thumping during those thirteen weeks. Thirteen weeks of "you ain't seen nothing yet". Came out a better man than what went in though.
As recruits we ran (double-timed) EVERYWHERE we went. Got our hineys handed to us numerous times by our DI's.
Fast forward twenty-something years later, when I attended my son's graduation from MCRD. Recruits were WALKING where they went. Couldn't believe my old eyes. A Marine 1st Lt. happened to be walking by, and I just had to ask him if recruits don't run anymore. He replied, "Sounds like you've been here before, Sir."
I told him that yes I had been there, and I seem to remember that the only time we walked was during close order drill.
He admitted that things have changed over the years.
Not necessarily softer, just done differently.
That was and is still one of the proudest days of my life to see my son earn his Eagle, Globe and Anchor on the same "grinder" (parade field to you non-Marines) where I earned mine.
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I went through basic in 1984, also at Ft. Lost in the Woods. It was definately the toughest 8 weeks I had ever seen. Although, ultimately, the military was not for me, I learned what I could do. The D.I.'s were incredibly rough and it was a mind blowing experience. Unfortunately since I don't know what basic is like now I can't say if it is easier. I do know that a lot of the non ranking military persons I have met over the years are a toss up as to whether they have the same professionalism I saw when I was in. It is probably more of a maturity issue and sign of the times than anything else. But I don't know about easier.
Quote:
Originally Posted by armygrnt502
I really can't say if the training is harder now than when I went threw in 1990, but the lowering of standards have in my eyes hurt the Army.
I don't know. In 1986 we were told by the Vietnam vet drill segeants that our basic was a pussy version compared to what they went through. Twenty-three years later I find myself looking at the new soldiers and I have to fight the inclination to bad mouth them. the older generation alwasy does that
+1000000Quote:
Originally Posted by bird1
They are now offering waivers for some felony convictions. And I strongly am against that