SAAMI: DO NOT USE .17 HMR CARTRIDGE IN SEMI-AUTO GUNS

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10-23-09, 09:31 PM
TXCharlie

SAAMI: DO NOT USE .17 HMR CARTRIDGE IN SEMI-AUTO GUNS

This story is apparently a month old, but if you have a .17 HMR Semi-Auto Rifle or Pistol, Read Carefully! - The very definition of "FUBAR" :doh:

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Safety Warning And Recall Notice

PRODUCT SAFETY WARNING
AND RECALL NOTICE
17 HMR AMMUNITION AND MODEL 597® 17 HMR SEMI-AUTOMATIC

DO NOT USE REMINGTON 17 HMR AMMUNITION IN SEMI-AUTOMATIC FIREARMS...

http://www.hornady.com/graphics/spacer.gif http://www.hornady.com/graphics/spacer.gif http://www.hornady.com/graphics/spacer.gif http://www.hornady.com/graphics/spacer.gif http://www.hornady.com/graphics/spacer.gif http://www.hornady.com/graphics/spacer.gif http://www.hornady.com/graphics/spacer.gif http://www.hornady.com/graphics/SECONDARY_r1_c1.jpg http://www.hornady.com/graphics/SECONDARY_r1_c4.jpg
Hornady

17 HMR Notice
September 15, 2009

Recently there have been notices placed on several web sites warning about the use of 17HMR ammunition in semi-automatic firearms...

Accordingly, do not use 17 HMR ammunition in semi-automatic firearms without consulting with your firearms manufacturer...

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News and Press Releases - Winchester Ammunition

News and Press Releases

http://www.winchester.com/images/spacer.gif http://www.winchester.com/images/spacer.gifPRODUCT WARNING NOTICE: WINCHESTER® 17 HMR AMMUNITION Winchester

Ammunition 8/21/2009
PRODUCT WARNING NOTICE

WINCHESTER® 17 HMR AMMUNITION

DO NOT USE WINCHESTER® SUPREME® OR SUPER-X® 17 HMR RIMFIRE AMMUNITION IN SEMI-AUTOMATIC FIREARMS...

CCI
CCI Ammunition - 17 HMR Notice

17 HMR AMMUNITION SAFETY NOTICE AND WARNING

August 20, 2009 (Updated August 31, 2009)

Dear Customer:

Do not use 17 HMR ammunition in semi-automatic firearms without consulting with your firearms manufacturer. Use of 17 HMR ammunition in semi-automatic firearms may result in serious personal injury or property damage...
10-26-09, 11:01 AM
spcwes

This would have been wonderful information to have prior to my Remi 597 exploding in my fucking face. Good game Remi, good game.
10-26-09, 09:21 PM
TXCharlie

Quote:

Originally Posted by spcwes

This would have been wonderful information to have prior to my Remi 597 exploding in my fucking face. Good game Remi, good game.

That actually happened to you?

Do you know what it is about the .17 HMR that makes it prone to doing this? All those notices are purposefully vague on the cause. Surely it's not because the gun is too weak.

Is the primer more sensitive than a .22LR or something like that? I've had .22LR get jammed and visibly bent up without it exploding outside the chamber. Actually, going off outside the chamber isn't really catastrophic unless a body part is close by.
10-27-09, 10:48 AM
spcwes

I was pretty excited about having a mag critter gitter because Rugar 10/22WMR were/are extremely hard to come by. I purchased a quality scope for the Remington 597, a bi-pod and about 2k rounds of 17HMR in the ballistic tip and HP Hornady bullets.

By no stretch of the imagination am I am novice behind a firearm of any type so performing full safety inspections of my firearms and keeping them clean is something I do often.

That being said yes, on my 4th box of Hornady BTs I had the magazine while inside the mag well explode (happened to be where my hand was) and all the rounds inside the mag were actually smashed almost flat in some cases. It was about what I would envision getting a fastball pitch at about 80MPH would feel like without a glove.

The chamber was locked open and the empty casing was lodged in the barrel very tightly to the point I decided to leave it lodged. I was wearing ear protection like always and (I was shooting the weapon right handed) my right ear was ringing pretty badly.

My hand was bruised and I had bits of plastic embedded but nothing serious.

As to what caused it that could be debatable as I do not have the rifle in my possession anymore and I actually didn't get to do a full inspection.

I will actually have to look up the numbers to be sure but if I remember correctly it happened because the pressure is considerably more than what was allotted for the .22 LR to handle and the design of the Remi 597 was not based on the 22 WMR rifles but .22LR rifles which would be a pretty significant issue.

Also, not sure if it would be possible but if a short charged round was actually fired and the bullet did not maintain enough energy to exit the barrel it might have become lodged enough to obstruct the barrel and cause a boom.

Again not sure but it made me very aware that a magnum rated round should never be fired out of cheaply made POS guns. Any weapon can have a failure but one that is quality made will almost always hold up better thus protecting the shooter more than a cheaper one.

On a side note I often judge how well a company does with customers by how well the customer service is concerning their firearms. Remington is not the greatest and neither is Hornady. Both companies instantly blamed each other without even hearing the entire circumstance of the failure. I was told by both Remington that if I shipped the ammo that caused the failure to Hornady they did not want to see the rifle or hear anything else out of me and Hornady told me almost word for word the exact same thing.

So about a week later one of the engineers from Remington contacted me and asked if I would send him the rifle for a replacement or a buy out on the rifle and I told him I didn't want another and he sent me a check for $500 bucks and a box to return the rifle in. From when I first contacted the company until I had mail was almost 15 weeks.

So yea pretty shitty experience. Also, had a experience with Glock that was kind of like the above one but I actually had a person that works for them named Will in the engineering/customer support department actually yell at me on the phone and actually called me an idiot for using Winchester White Box ammo purchased from Wal Mart (ammo that went boom).

About a week later a lawyer contacted me and had the weapon replaced in about a 4day turn around. Lol some of these folks are a bit up tight.
10-28-09, 12:44 AM
TXCharlie

Sheesh - both experiences sound like either unsupported chambers, or maybe the bolt wasn't locked when the round went off so maybe the shock set off the top round, which set off the whole magazine (I guess the 597 is probably blowback, so it doesn't lock at all - Not enough bolt mass or the case jammed in the chamber before it was properly seated maybe?).

I know Glock 40 cal is prone to blowing a case with reloads - Seen that twice, but I never heard of it doing that with new ammo. It wasn't catastrophic and didn't damage the gun, but the hot gasses burnt the guy's finger real good, and embedded powder particles in his skin.

A friend of mine did have a Glock 10mm go ka-boom with new ammo though. He said they blamed it on the wrong recoil spring, which I guess again got the timing off so it may not have been locked up either when the round went off - His slide ripped off the rails and went 10 feet in the air, and his magazine blew out the bottom.

A gunsmith told him that it's lucky he didn't use one of those "Glock Plugs" - Supposedly that opening next to the magazine at the bottom of the grip is a gas relief, to keep the plastic frame from exploding in your hand. Or so he said.

Where is Maclean when you need him to chime in? :D
10-28-09, 08:59 AM
spcwes

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXCharlie

Sheesh - both experiences sound like either unsupported chambers, or maybe the bolt wasn't locked when the round went off so maybe the shock set off the top round, which set off the whole magazine (I guess the 597 is probably blowback, so it doesn't lock at all - Not enough bolt mass or the case jammed in the chamber before it was properly seated maybe?).

I know Glock 40 cal is prone to blowing a case with reloads - Seen that twice, but I never heard of it doing that with new ammo. It wasn't catastrophic and didn't damage the gun, but the hot gasses burnt the guy's finger real good, and embedded powder particles in his skin.

A friend of mine did have a Glock 10mm go ka-boom with new ammo though. He said they blamed it on the wrong recoil spring, which I guess again got the timing off so it may not have been locked up either when the round went off - His slide ripped off the rails and went 10 feet in the air, and his magazine blew out the bottom.

A gunsmith told him that it's lucky he didn't use one of those "Glock Plugs" - Supposedly that opening next to the magazine at the bottom of the grip is a gas relief, to keep the plastic frame from exploding in your hand. Or so he said.

Where is Maclean when you need him to chime in? :D

To be honest I do think it was an issue with the little rifle being set up for a .22lr vs. a small mag round. If the blow back system was set this way what happened to me would actually be MORE likely to happen than not happen.

As far as the Glock is concerned it was absolutely a unsupported issue. The weapon was new to me but department issued without a spring refurbish and more than likely the spring was weak and did not lock the round down the pipe. It actually blew out the mag, mag release button and put some shit in my hand as well.

The mag in the Glock had I think the first 3 rounds in the top of the mag flattened as well and it hit the ground hard enough to break the bottom plate on the mag.

It's kind of funny that with the Glock in .40 SW they don't just adjust the support in the barrel a bit, they did for the .357sig. But with that round they truly had no choice if they wanted to bring it to market.