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  1. #1
    DIESEL326's Avatar
    DIESEL326 is offline Master Officer
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    Competition Shooting...

    Let's hear it... What is you game and what do you like? I have done a very little bit of IDPA shooting, a fair amount of precision rifle and F-Class shooting, and I'm trying my darndest to get into some 3-gun stuff. I personally would love to hear opinions, tactics, or anything else from the fine people here at OR in regards to competition shooting. What do you like or dislike about a particular game, and do you find competitive shooting to relate fairly well to "police shooting".

    Please also feel free to share pics of your rigs and equipment. I recently just put together a "purpose made" AR for 3-gunning (because I needed an excuse for another AR) and I'll try and get some pics up later as well.
    "Aim small, miss small."

  2. #2
    ANI4ANI's Avatar
    ANI4ANI is offline Served my city 1972-1997
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    This is my gun for IDPA and USPSA as well. A 9mm XD 5" Tactical. I had it tricked out by Springer Precision. A 3.5# trigger pull, extended mag release and Dawson sights. USPSA was my first try at the shooting sports and I found it to be fun and fast moving. Lots of rounds and the stage could be run to ones liking. Personally, I also found it to be a groupie game. The top speed shooters stuck together and the slower novice guys were on their own to some degree, but not totally if you ask questions.

    Next was IDPA. I found it to have too many strict rules, but doable. Active officers have to use their duty belt to shoot. Unless they choose to shoot in one of the other classes, not LE. The cover garment took some getting use to. The participants seemed more helpful to newer shooters, even the RO (range officers). Less rounds to shoot, but more realistic compared to police stage shooting and self defense. Of course the big difference is you shoot at every target (except the ones with painted hands), so no need to think regarding shoot-don't shoot scenarios. Many shooters are very good, fast and accurate. But one would have to ask, can they be that good shooting police qualification courses?

    Personally, I did not like anyone knowing I was an officer. I didn't want someone making a negative comment on how crappy cops shoot. I must admit though, overall most of the top competition shooters and the fair ones as well, can out shoot most cops any day in my opinion. They practice more and some take the game very serious. A gun to a cop is just a tool. Pass the required qualification time and they are happy.

    I've never tried the 3 gun shooting, but I hear many talk about it being lots of fun. Since I don't reload, my shooting sport games are probably over. Factory ammo costs are high and gasoline prices have put a halt to it for now. I might consider shooting the steel challenge. I did it one time, but the standing in one spot was boring for me. No movement. Oh, by the way, the top speed marksman where I shoot is a city firefighter. I know of one other cop shooter (state trooper) at my range and he wasn't very good. Good luck with your game shooting.
    As today's police officers you are not unlike your counterparts of years past. You are an elite group of select members, a brotherhood of highly trained professionals, who are called upon to protect your community in a time of need. Guardians for safety. Being a police officer is not for the faint of heart. You must be honest, trustworthy and fearless in the face of evil. You are being watched everyday. Represent yourself, your department and the shield, for it should always be the embodiment of all that is good and justly. You are the thin blue line. Be proud, be tough and be safe.

  3. #3
    ChesCopPodz's Avatar
    ChesCopPodz is offline Wandering son
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    I dabbled in ICORE when I lived in Virginia. I may get back into it here.
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  4. #4
    DIESEL326's Avatar
    DIESEL326 is offline Master Officer
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    NICE Springfield! I've never done any USPSA, there doesn't seem to be much of it happening around here unfortunately. I will agree that the IDPA guys that I've been around are very good about helping newbies. I've never actually shot a "real" qualifier, but at the demos I attended I was hanging with the Master that was putting on the demo. (Though I'm sure I was not quite adhering to all of the rules quite as strictly as he was.)

    Luckily my department looks at competition shooting as training, so I can usually get my hands on some ammo if I need it, and if not I do reload so that definitely helps.

    What is ICORE?
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  5. #5
    MacLean's Avatar
    MacLean is offline O/R Gun mod
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    IDPA and USPSA - tinkered with both.

    I need to get off my ass and shoot a qualifier.
    I'm your huckleberry...

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  6. #6
    ANI4ANI's Avatar
    ANI4ANI is offline Served my city 1972-1997
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    Diesel,

    This video is Todd Jarrett. He's a world champion shooter and teacher of the techniques used in USPSA and IDPA. I've watched numerous videos he's done, and they helped me understand the proper reloads and maneuvers for the sport. He even makes a valid point for LEO reloads. During my LE days, we were never taught speed reloads. Maybe departments teach it today, because I'm sure it could be useful during a bad gunfight. Everyone knows speed kills; but in this case, it might save your life. Practice...practice...practice .

    Todd Jarrett - Tactical Reloads (Video Included) | MyOutdoorTV.com
    As today's police officers you are not unlike your counterparts of years past. You are an elite group of select members, a brotherhood of highly trained professionals, who are called upon to protect your community in a time of need. Guardians for safety. Being a police officer is not for the faint of heart. You must be honest, trustworthy and fearless in the face of evil. You are being watched everyday. Represent yourself, your department and the shield, for it should always be the embodiment of all that is good and justly. You are the thin blue line. Be proud, be tough and be safe.

  7. #7
    Morris is offline Chief Wheaties Pisser
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    Used to shoot PPC with a G35. About all I had time for. Nothing like shooting the Glock at 50 yards under time with a stock trigger . . . But at least the fellow shooters were also very accomplished cops who shot very well.

  8. #8
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    TXCharlie is offline Former & Future Reserve Officer
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    American Speed Plates here (American Speed Plates by www.handgunsports.com)

    It's mostly a local match, but there are several devotees in other states.

    Basically, it's 6 stages, each consisting of 5 steel targets of various placement and size, usually between 15 and 40 yards away. You draw 5 times from the holster on each stage, for a total of 150 shots er match if you miss nothing.

    You must keep shooting until you hit all 5 targets on each draw, and the shots are timed by microphone from the command to draw till the last shot is fired.

    There's no way to win by spraying bullets, however, because each shot takes too long. Since the targets are often 15-45 degrees apart or more, just having to swing back and re-shoot a few targets is enough to loose the match.

    Typical winning times for engaging all the targets is about 5-6 seconds per draw on average, including draw time (less than 3 seconds for the Grand Masters in our group, who are f'ing amazing).

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  9. #9
    MacLean's Avatar
    MacLean is offline O/R Gun mod
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morris View Post
    Used to shoot PPC with a G35. About all I had time for. Nothing like shooting the Glock at 50 yards under time with a stock trigger . . . But at least the fellow shooters were also very accomplished cops who shot very well.
    That reminds me, I shot PPC once with Morris.
    I'm your huckleberry...

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    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


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    but every girl I found was either one way or the other...



  10. #10
    pgg's Avatar
    pgg
    pgg is offline Damnit, I'm hungry again.
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    They taught us speed reloading in instructor school.

    As far as competition goes I've never gotten a chance to go with my work schedule. I did shoot a Glock match once though. Scored about middle of the pack with my G21 with my duty belt. They had alot of guys that major competitors.
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  11. #11
    MacLean's Avatar
    MacLean is offline O/R Gun mod
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    Quote Originally Posted by pgg View Post
    They taught us speed reloading in instructor school.
    Speed reloading is part of the basic academy firearms program in Washington, and is reinforced in instructor school.

    If you cannot perform it under time, you fail out of instructor school, and same in the basic academy - although they get more time.

    We reinforce it by requiring it in one stage of our qualification, and teach it religiously.

    Reloading is part of the malfunction drill, and you must master it.
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


    I was looking for a saint who was a devil of a lover,
    but every girl I found was either one way or the other...



  12. #12
    ANI4ANI's Avatar
    ANI4ANI is offline Served my city 1972-1997
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    Thumbs up

    Good to hear speed reloading is taught and required for your PD stage qualification. I can no longer address any type of firearm techniques by my department having been away 14 years. Annual HR 218 qualification doesn't count...it's a joke. I do remember reloading my S&W 5906 auto from the bench, and thinking how stupid can this be. Back during the civil war days, we had to at least reload our revolvers from a pouch. Maybe the bench reload was the result of all the dumb cops being issued auto's for the first time. Eventually, mag pouch reloading was in order. I assume the training has been advanced for quicker magazine reloads/malfunctions. To bad the police don't take some reloading techniques from the shooting sport champions.
    As today's police officers you are not unlike your counterparts of years past. You are an elite group of select members, a brotherhood of highly trained professionals, who are called upon to protect your community in a time of need. Guardians for safety. Being a police officer is not for the faint of heart. You must be honest, trustworthy and fearless in the face of evil. You are being watched everyday. Represent yourself, your department and the shield, for it should always be the embodiment of all that is good and justly. You are the thin blue line. Be proud, be tough and be safe.

  13. #13
    Jks9199 is offline The Reason People Hate Cops & Causer of War
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    We teach two reloading techniques: emergency (slide lock back or malfunction) and tactical (when you have time to plan a reload)

    Emergency reloads with a semiauto consist of: acquire the fresh magazine, drop the old, deliver the new. lock it in and work the slide (if necessary; often with my Glock, when I slap the magazine to ensure it's seated, the slide goes forward). This can be done either as part of a malfunction drill, after the slide locks back because the magazine is empty, or when you know you're down to the last round if you're counting.

    Tactical reloads are done when you have time to put a fresh magazine in. Ideally, you're behind cover. Execution consists of aquiring the fresh magazine, bring it up, dropping and catching the old magazine, inserting the new, ensuring it's seated and stowing the old magazine. Under pressure, I generally actually reverse the last two steps: I stash the old magazine in a pocket, and then slap the magazine home as I re-acquire my grip.

    The video of Todd Jarrett shows both of these pretty well -- though we teach not to put a partial mag back into a pouch. And I strongly encourage people to develop ONE place they stash them, especially after I tucked one somewhere odd during a course of fire, and barely passed it because I couldn't find the magazine when I needed it!
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  14. #14
    DIESEL326's Avatar
    DIESEL326 is offline Master Officer
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    We also teach and are taught speed reloading. Fairly often we'll conclude SWAT training with some plate races and drills among the team members. With the exception of a couple super high speed shooters (and a couple of not so high speed unfortunately) most of the races come down to who can reload faster.

    Not to toot my own horn, but I once demonstrated the importance of fast reloads in one of said plate races... I loaded four magazines with 2 rounds each, and lined up with another guy who had two full mags. We had six plates each to shoot. When the dust settled I had killed my six plates and one of his while he had only hit three. Now that I think of it, maybe I also demonstrated to him that it is important to HIT WHAT YOU'RE AIMING AT too...
    "Aim small, miss small."

  15. #15
    98z28 is offline Officer First Class
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIESEL326 View Post
    We also teach and are taught speed reloading. Fairly often we'll conclude SWAT training with some plate races and drills among the team members. With the exception of a couple super high speed shooters (and a couple of not so high speed unfortunately) most of the races come down to who can reload faster.

    Not to toot my own horn, but I once demonstrated the importance of fast reloads in one of said plate races... I loaded four magazines with 2 rounds each, and lined up with another guy who had two full mags. We had six plates each to shoot. When the dust settled I had killed my six plates and one of his while he had only hit three. Now that I think of it, maybe I also demonstrated to him that it is important to HIT WHAT YOU'RE AIMING AT too...
    That's good stuff right there.

    Diesel,

    Where did you shoot IDPA in your area? I can't find crap around here. There are PPC matches once in a blue moon. I'd like to find something semi-regular.

  16. #16
    DIESEL326's Avatar
    DIESEL326 is offline Master Officer
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    Quote Originally Posted by 98z28 View Post
    That's good stuff right there.

    Diesel,

    Where did you shoot IDPA in your area? I can't find crap around here. There are PPC matches once in a blue moon. I'd like to find something semi-regular.
    Thanks!
    We had a couple of IDPA "gurus" come out to the training center/ range and do a couple of demo's, and they ran a few of us through several stages just to get us hooked. They (the local IDPA club) also put on a few stages at the Alabama State Games, and I always shoot those.

    There are monthly matches at Brocks Gap Training Center (aka Steel City) here in Hoover, AL, but I haven't been able to play in those too much just yet. Hopefully that will change soon though.
    "Aim small, miss small."

  17. #17
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    luckyme is offline The bastard you love, the hero you hate
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIESEL326 View Post
    There are monthly matches at Brocks Gap Training Center (aka Steel City) here in Hoover, AL, but I haven't been able to play in those too much just yet. Hopefully that will change soon though.
    That is a really nice range. I took a week long active shooter class with Hoover a couple years ago and was at that range most of the week.

    They host IDPA matches according to the website.

    http://www.scssa.org/


    Some of the guys from Montevallo shoot in the monthly matches.

  18. #18
    DIESEL326's Avatar
    DIESEL326 is offline Master Officer
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckyme View Post
    That is a really nice range. I took a week long active shooter class with Hoover a couple years ago and was at that range most of the week.

    They host IDPA matches according to the website.

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    Some of the guys from Montevallo shoot in the monthly matches.
    "Some of those guys" are supposed to be letting me know when they're shooting... Chief is who twisted my arm and got me to build a "3 gun AR", and really got me hyped on competing more. I need to drop by and remind him to call more often!
    "Aim small, miss small."

 

 

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