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  1. #1
    Piggybank Cop's Avatar
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    Exclamation The Spanking Debate

    The Spanking Debate
    By Natalie Lorenzi


    The Bottom Line
    No parenting issue sparks more debate than spanking. Although the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) discourages all corporal punishment, an estimated 90 percent of parents have spanked. Yet most of those parents are not pro-spanking. According to a study from the State University of New York (SUNY) at Buffalo, 85 percent of those who spank would rather not. While some parents advocate spanking and others shun it, most Americans fall somewhere in between. Here, experts respond to four families' stances on this emotional issue.

    No-Spanking Policy

    We have never spanked our children, and we never will.

    Dave Taylor and his wife, Linda, of Boulder, Colorado, have never raised a hand to their children, Ashley, 10, Gareth, 6, and Kiana, 2. "We're both very concerned about how violent our society is. We don't want to have that come into our home," Taylor says. But he is careful to point out that no spanking doesn't mean no discipline. The Taylors use time-outs and logical consequences when their kids misbehave. For instance, after their son deliberately broke a chair, he had to use his allowance to replace it. "I bet that's a more impressive lesson than me pulling him over my knee and spanking him," Taylor says.

    The experts respond: According to the AAP, taking away privileges and issuing time-outs yields better results than spanking. "The AAP doesn't endorse spanking, because it is not effective in the long term, can hurt a child's self-esteem, and can cause physical harm," says pediatrician William Coleman, MD, of the Center for Development and Learning at the University of North Carolina, in Chapel Hill, and chair of the AAP's committee on psychosocial aspects of child and family health.

    "Parents who don't spank their children still discipline; they just do it in ways that don't involve hitting," says Elizabeth Gershoff, PhD, assistant professor at the School of Social Work at the University of Michigan, in Ann Arbor. Although some parents may equate spanking with discipline, Gershoff says the two are not synonymous: "Discipline is teaching; spanking is punishment."



    Ex-Spanker

    I once believed in spanking -- not anymore.

    Linda Doty, of St. Louis, Missouri, mother of Katie, 23, Amber, 21, Sarah, 10, Jadyn, 4, and Raena, 2, spanked her oldest daughters when they were little. "I was a young mother, and I thought spanking was just what was done," she says. Doty knew experts cautioned against lashing out in anger, so when she found herself chasing her daughter up the stairs to give her a spanking, that was her "lightbulb" moment. "How can this not be in anger? I'm chasing her for it," Doty says. "It was the last time I ever spanked."

    The experts respond: Doty is certainly not the only parent who has spanked in anger and frustration. According to the SUNY study, 85 percent of parents report feeling angry and agitated when they spank. And those emotions can be difficult to rein in. "The intensity will continue to rise if the parent continues to be physical," says Dr. Coleman. And that increases the risk of abuse.

    Gershoff agrees. In 2002, she analyzed 88 different spanking studies and found 10 negative outcomes in those who are spanked -- including higher risk for aggression and abuse of their own kids or spouse down the line.

    Robert Larzelere, PhD, associate professor of human development and family science at Oklahoma State University, in Stillwater, cautions that spanking in frustration sends the message that "if you're frustrated, you can just lash out at whoever you're mad at." And that's not a lesson parents want to teach.



    Regretful Spankers

    We spank but wish we didn't.

    Ken and Molly Crandall, of Nassau, New York, parents of Julia, 5, and Jackson, 3, never thought they would spank. "We knew we didn't want to raise an aggressive or bullying child," says Ken Crandall. So why do they resort to spanking? "We've used it when we're at the end of our ropes," he says. But spanking hasn't worked for them. "It gets Julia to respond out of fear, and we just don't feel right about doing it. Plus we feel guilty when we punish her." Although they'd like to stop spanking, "to say that we won't resort to it again -- we probably can't say that."

    The experts respond: Gershoff has seen similar scenarios with other parents who spank and later regret it. "They realize the contradiction between what they're saying and what they're doing. Children begin to fear their parents. And when parents see that, some of them decide not to hit anymore."

    "Almost all of us lose it," says Linda Pearson, RN, a psychiatric mental health nurse practitioner, in Lakewood, Colorado, and author of The Discipline Miracle (Amacom). "But instead of swatting, why don't we substitute consequences?" She advocates using time-outs, withdrawing a child's privileges for misbehavior, and rewarding good behavior with "goodies." When parents lament about their disrespectful kids, Pearson asks why they continue to allow their children to watch favorite television shows and have their friends over to play. "Parents forget that a child has to earn these special treats." And rewarding good behavior yields far better results than spanking, she says.



    Pro-Spanking

    We believe spanking works.

    "An effective discipline regimen has a variety of things -- time-outs, separating kids from activities, logical consequences -- and we use spanking too," says Jason Berggren, of Atlanta. When his boys, Aiden, 4, and Logan, 2, are defiant, Berggren and his wife, Lisa, give one warning. If the boys don't comply, they get a spanking. Immediately afterward, the Berggrens discuss the reason for the spanking with their boys.

    The experts respond: Larzelere condones conditional spanking -- reasoning first, nonphysical punishment second, and if a child is still defiant, then an open-handed, two-swat spank on the buttocks for kids ages 2 to 6. But he adds a crucial caveat: "If parents are at risk for getting out of control, they need to do something to calm themselves down."

    Once parents lose control, however, it's not always easy to get it back. The AAP reports that 44 percent of parents spank because they "lose it." And even if a parent could deliver a spanking calmly 100 percent of the time, spanking is simply not effective over time. "If children are hit, they'll stop what they're doing right away. But they will not stop in the future," Gershoff says. "When people say that spanking works, they're probably spanking and doing something else. They get the child's attention by spanking, and then they talk to the child about what he or she did wrong. Hitting, unfortunately, is one way to get a child's attention, but there are lots of other ways." Speaking in a stern tone of voice or touching a child on the arm are nonviolent alternatives for getting a child's attention. Of her own children, 4 and 2, Gershoff says, "One of the things I'm always trying to teach them is to not hit each other. Why in the world would I hit them if that's the message I'm trying to teach?"



    Time-Out Tips
    Many parents turn to spanking when a time-out goes awry. Pete Stavinoha, MD, pediatric neuropsychologist at Children's Medical Center of Dallas, offers these tips for getting the most from time-outs:



    1. Before a Time-Out
    Praise your child for good behavior.
    Role-play a time-out (when your child isn't in trouble), so he'll know what to expect.


    2. During a Time-Out
    Be firm and in control, not overly emotional.
    Don't give your child any attention -- positive or negative.
    If your child refuses to stay in time-out, try holding her in the time-out until she's calm, without cuddling.
    The time-out should end whenever your child is calm and ready to make the situation right again. A general guideline: one minute per year of her age.


    3. After a Time-Out
    Don't rehash the infraction.
    Have your child pay restitution, such as apologizing or completing a task that he should have finished before. Then give him a clean slate.


    Natalie Lorenzi, a mother of three, lives in Trieste, Italy.



    Originally published in American Baby magazine, December 2006.



    The information on this Web site is designed for educational purposes only. It is not intended to be a substitute for informed medical advice or care. You should not use this information to diagnose or treat any health problems or illnesses without consulting your pediatrician or family doctor. Please consult a doctor with any questions or concerns you might have regarding your or your child's condition.


    A whole new market for Taser; don’t you think?

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  2. #2
    Motorwaycop's Avatar
    Motorwaycop is offline Retired Plod
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    Thought this was going to be about something else!

    Damn, its just about kids!
    the sole advantage of power is that you can do more good.
    ( Baltasar Gracian )

  3. #3
    Ducky's Avatar
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    Pain compliance is a last resort, but it does work.



    AKA - Gimme a taser! My kid's damn near as big as I am! But while I'm teaching her martial arts, she does know that at any given time, I can kick her ass.
    \\
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtN1YnoL46Q


  4. #4
    Piggybank Cop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motorwaycop View Post
    Thought this was going to be about something else!

    Damn, its just about kids!
    You dirty old man!






    My kind of guy.

    We are the thin blue line
    between you
    and all the money in the world.

    And no you can't have any.

  5. #5
    ninjamom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motorwaycop View Post
    Thought this was going to be about something else!
    Glad I wasn't the only one!




    "Old age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill." - My Dad

    Nine out of ten voices in my head say, "Pull the trigger."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjamom View Post
    Glad I wasn't the only one!

    You most definitely were not the only one.
    phoenixrose
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    armygrnt502's Avatar
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    Indeed...I was getting all happy to read this one.

    Hell yeah I spank my kids...worked wonders on me. Does the same for them. Do I think it hurts them? No more than it hurt me when I got one or my parents and so forth.

    Pain stays with the memory longer than pleasure.
    "Sometimes people need a little help. Sometimes people need to be forgiven. And sometimes they need to go to jail."


  8. #8
    Vendetta's Avatar
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    When I was young we didnt get spankings................we got "eyes roll back in your head" beat downs...........for you that have experienced one.......


    YOU KNOW WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT
    "And don't go home, and don't go to eat, and don't play with yourself. It wouldn't look nice on my highway", Buford T. Justice

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  9. #9
    Ducky's Avatar
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    My dad always told us he was "going to jerk a knot in your tail!" What worried us was we knew we didn't have tails, but we also knew that Dad was a man of his word. It was going to hurt.
    \\
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    armygrnt502's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vendetta View Post
    When I was young we didnt get spankings................we got "eyes roll back in your head" beat downs...........for you that have experienced one.......


    YOU KNOW WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT
    Indeed..I remember that if I backtalked my old man I was soon looking up at him on the floor with starry eyes and a stinging cheek.

    I remember the eyes in the back of your head syndrome.
    "Sometimes people need a little help. Sometimes people need to be forgiven. And sometimes they need to go to jail."


  11. #11
    BEB
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ducky View Post
    My dad always told us he was "going to jerk a knot in your tail!" What worried us was we knew we didn't have tails, but we also knew that Dad was a man of his word. It was going to hurt.
    Fear is a great motivator. I didn't get spanked much, that I recall anyway, but sure knew I didn't want to get spanked.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1sgkelly View Post
    A whole new market for Taser; don’t you think?

    Funny you should mention that.

    Man zaps wife's grandma in dispute at North Bonneville home

    THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

    NORTH BONNEVILLE, Wash. -- A man who used a stun gun on his 79 year-old grandmother-in-law after an argument over how to discipline his toddler son was arrested for investigation of domestic violence assault.

    Aaron de Bruyn, 26, was cited with fourth-degree domestic violence assault Wednesday and was released from the Skamania County Jail Thursday afternoon, said Calvin Owens, police chief in this town about 30 miles up the Columbia River from Portland, Ore.

    The argument began Wednesday morning when his 7-month-old son tried to reach behind the family's entertainment system to grab the electrical wires, de Bruyn told The Columbian newspaper of Vancouver.

    Fearing the boy would shock himself, he told the boy "no" a couple of times and gave the child a swat on his diapered bottom.

    De Bruyn said his grandmother-in-law, Rosemary Garlock, told him that was child abuse and threatened to have the child taken away. He said he then told Garlock to leave and she refused.

    After an argument that lasted several minutes, he pulled out his Taser stun gun and told her he would use it on her if she didn't leave within 60 seconds. He counted down, and when she didn't leave, he shocked her on her right shoulder as she sat on the living room couch.

    "She yelped, because getting Tased hurts," de Bruyn said. "She started screaming at the top of her lungs to call 911."

    Garlock did not need medical attention.

    De Bruyn said he had the 50,000-volt Taser X26 energy weapon in case he was confronted with a burglar in his house. He said he was the one who called authorities, saying he had a relative in his house who would not leave.

    De Bruyn's stun gun was confisicated.

    "If I had to do it over again, I wouldn't," he said of the incident. "It's pretty intimidating, everything that's been going on. I've never been in jail or in court, never been in trouble with the law."
    "I'm not a coward,
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    I would pass"
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    BEB
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    I heard about that one on the radio. Must be a tough old bird if she could yell out "call 911" while being tased.

    While being in support of civilian ownership of everything short of nuclear weapons (maybe small ones) I'm still amazed the average guy is smart enough to tie his own shoelaces.

    And even though I think Jefferson was a pollyanna for the most part, I still agree with "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."

    The other choice is no choice at all, comrade.

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    BabyGirl is offline Rookie
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    I was never spanked, I was smacked around when my mother was pissed at my so called dad who never did anything to stop it. It never scared me, it just pissed me off and I still won't have anything to do with either of them now. I don't give a crap about either of them.

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    Firm believer in the spankings. I know I am 4 times the size of my kids, I know how to restrain myself, I don't go over board and they listen. The next time they fuck up or are about to fuck up, they think twice about it.
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    Growing up I was spanked using the graduated method by my Dad.

    First he used his bare hand on my behind, when it got to the point of me laughing every time he hit me, I graduated.

    Next came the leather belt. Again when I got a bit older and would laugh at that I again graduated.

    Next came a wet wooden spoon to the butt. I was spanked twice using that and never laughed, and never got spanked again. That hurts like hell, and I didnt want to know what came next!!!
    "An Unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." Jeff Cooper


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  17. #17
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    Whatever... Spank em now...or Bail em out later
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