Failing to stop a suicide

**Mem** · 01-27-06, 05:19 PM

Originally Posted by Indy

Just out of curiosity, how do you know if the person even did it? It seems like any troll could come along to a site like that, type convincing stuff and then say, "I'm going to do it now. Bye..." And you'd never know whether they actually did or not.

Am I misunderstanding something, like they gave their name and then the next day you saw an article in the paper confirming it?

In this case the death was verified. But no, not always do we know. The person was in the chat room which is a place that tracking can occur by the admins/mods. The person was also in a instant message with another member from what I later found out. As the conversation got more serious the person in the instant message conversation contacted authorities. I am not a computer person so I am not sure how this is done but when the admin posts a death it is only done if it is a verified one. I doubt the site would make such a statement if it was untrue so I take it at face value. In other cases sites/member get what is called time mails. This normally happens on pro sites though. There is a site where a person can put their good bye so to speak in an email with information and that email is timed to arrive after the attempt to prevent intervention. Then via media, other members you may get validation. Cnn did whole thing a few months ago about the pro sites after the death of a young woman that her folks blame on a pro website.

**Retdetsgt** · 01-27-06, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by Mem

In regards to multiple attempts. The attempts are not always public and often are almost a "try" but is still dangerious. It is not uncommon for attempts at overdosing and cutting that are superficial.

Superficial would hardly qualify as attempt suicides in almost any definition. Attempting suicide means trying to kill yourself. Superficial stuff sounds more like anger than anything else. Self mutilation is fairly common in particularly troubled teens and they have no intention of killing themselves.

"Wanting to die" in a teen sense is often far from really wanting to commit suicide. When I talk of previous attempts, I'm talking about attempts with at least a measure of seriousness about them, ones that require medical attention. Scratching a wrist or taking 12 aspirin is not attempt suicide.

**Mem** · 01-27-06, 06:18 PM

I understand your view. However, my thoughts are that making any type of physical attempt to self harm is serious. The fact the mind sought harm vs another coping choice is a sign the person may continue to seek that choice and at a more serious attempt. Teenages and adults discuss how they started out with just cutting, then began taking pills then a few more and continued until they finally made an attempt that required medical attention. Yes it is that medical attempt you refer to but it also shows that suicidal people will accelerate their actions over time and know they are doing that. It is a consious effort thus implies planning. Just one of many perspectives.

**kimby** · 01-27-06, 10:21 PM

Originally Posted by Mem

The thread was prompted by a death on the net but that is only one of many outlets troubled people turn to. Hotlines, therapy, support groups are still the main source but it is amazing to see how many young people turn to the net instead of their parents, friends, doctors. I deal with multiple offline outlets and my perspective is simply based on those experiences as well as the net sources. I am no Dr. Phil but helping others is important to me. Thanks.

Mem, one thing I've noticed is that after a suicide it sometimes comes out that the person has actually been openly talking about wanting to die. Like a friend or family member will say, "He SAID he had been thinking of killing himself, but I never thought he was SERIOUS." I wonder if talking about suicide is so out of context with our everyday lives that we tend to not really hear people when they try to discuss it. I think that if those sites can even help one or two people who are really serious, and who can't get anyone else to listen, then they have to be a good thing.

Indy · 01-27-06, 10:31 PM

I have to say that while I'm not sure entirely what I think of Mem's site...

...sometimes people simply need a place to talk where people will listen to them, and at the very least, pretend to understand and care. Just because a person is not actually going to commit suicide does not mean they do not feel 100% miserable and wish they had the guts to do it. If the site is moderated to do what it can to prevent trolls from chanting "do it, do it" and typing out HOW to do it successfully, I do not see a problem with it. Having no professional experience in that area though, I'd be worried about saying the wrong thing and making the problem worse.

**Virginian** · 01-27-06, 10:32 PM

I just don't trust the millions of kids around the world who would find a forum like that and fill it with lies about how they want to kill themselves just to mess with the emotions of well intentioned people.

Indy · 01-27-06, 10:36 PM

Originally Posted by Virginian

I just don't trust the millions of kids around the world who would find a forum like that and fill it with lies about how they want to kill themselves just to mess with the emotions of well intentioned people.

I do agree with that. I don't have a whole lot of faith in society anymore. But, for every group of kids screwing with them, there may be one real one who really needs someone to talk to.

**Virginian** · 01-27-06, 10:38 PM

Werd

**kimby** · 01-27-06, 10:50 PM

Originally Posted by Indy

I do agree with that. I don't have a whole lot of faith in society anymore. But, for every group of kids screwing with them, there may be one real one who really needs someone to talk to.

I agree. I answer a sexual assault hotline and a lot of our calls are from people who just want to mess with us, some of whom are doing it for their own sexual stimulation. It's hard because the calls are patched to the homes of the on-call counselor throughout the night. None of us really want to wake up to listen to some guy talk about his wild gay rape fantasy and hear him masturbating in the background. But as you said, for everyone who's screwing with us there could be someone else who really needs us, so we don't even give it a second thought.

**Mem** · 01-27-06, 11:28 PM

Originally Posted by kimby

Mem, one thing I've noticed is that after a suicide it sometimes comes out that the person has actually been openly talking about wanting to die. Like a friend or family member will say, "He SAID he had been thinking of killing himself, but I never thought he was SERIOUS." I wonder if talking about suicide is so out of context with our everyday lives that we tend to not really hear people when they try to discuss it. I think that if those sites can even help one or two people who are really serious, and who can't get anyone else to listen, then they have to be a good thing.

Unfortunetly people either stop listening to a person with problems or just don't want to accept such a statement is being made. It is normal, we all get caught up in our own things and no one wants to believe someone would actually think that way. It is difficult to sometimes separate the drama from those truly needing help. True these sites do not have alot of professionals and some none other than peers, but they are not meant to be the doctor, but a place to scream for a moment and be directed to professionals. It is not perfect but in a society where mental health care is not doing well, it is better than nothing for some people.

**Retdetsgt** · 01-28-06, 12:28 AM

Originally Posted by Mem

I understand your view. However, my thoughts are that making any type of physical attempt to self harm is serious. The fact the mind sought harm vs another coping choice is a sign the person may continue to seek that choice and at a more serious attempt. Teenages and adults discuss how they started out with just cutting, then began taking pills then a few more and continued until they finally made an attempt that required medical attention. Yes it is that medical attempt you refer to but it also shows that suicidal people will accelerate their actions over time and know they are doing that. It is a consious effort thus implies planning. Just one of many perspectives.

And what I keep saying is that with the vast majority of successful suicides, there is not the history you just stated. Very few teenagers actually kill themselves with pills or slashed wrists. Which leads me to believe that few of the people that do all that stuff actually succeed. I'm not saying nor implying they don't need help, but I based on the cases I've dealt with, actual suicide is not going to be the end result for those folks.