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Thread: Gun Control

  1. #1
    Elle's Avatar
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    Gun Control

    This is probably gonna open a can of worms. Curious about everyone's opinion, it is long. I have no idea who wrote it.



    We are led to believe that gun control laws are for the benefit of the common people, but what are the real results of gun control? There are those like government educators and the main stream media who would have us believe that ordinary citizens would be safer if they were not allowed to own guns. They would have us believe that a government monopoly on force would make our nation's people more safe and secure. But is gun control really the necessary tool we need to create a less violent society? Would gun control allow us to better live our lives without fear of being victimized by violent criminals? Are everyday citizens really made safer when the ability to defend themselves and their families from human predators is against the law?

    A look at history will show us that gun control does not benefit ordinary citizens. In fact it makes them far more likely to fall victim to violent crime. After a thorough investigation of the history of gun control, any logical-thinking person can only come to one conclusion - gun control advocates are either ignorant or they are evil.

    The only people empowered by gun control laws are governments and criminals. And unfortunately sometimes one is the other. What happens when a rogue government takes control of a nation? History's worst serial killers have been governments that turned predator against segments of their own populations. The inability of innocent victims to defend themselves against their own governments cost the lives of over 170 million of the world's peoples in the 20th century alone.

    In February 1915 a secret plan was made to eliminate Turkey's Armenian population. It was not difficult for the nation's new government to set these plans in motion because there were already gun control laws on the books requiring people to register their guns. With this ready information it was a simple task for the authorities to make house to house searches confiscating the weapons of the country's Armenian Christian minority. Homes were ransacked and people were tortured in order to take their arms. On June 26, 1915 the final part of the plan was put into motion. The government announced that all Armenians would be sent to remote camps. Armed guards rounded them up; most were women, children, the elderly and the handicapped. They were led over rough terrain and into the deserts where many dropped dead from heat and exhaustion. Fewer than 1 in 10 survived the march, only to be butchered in the end by their captors. The total count of the annihilated was 1,500,000 or three-fourths of the Armenian population of Turkey.

    In the early 1930's while the rest of the world was being brainwashed into believing that the Soviet Union was a worker's paradise, in reality millions were being starved to death by their own government. Wanting to confiscate the grain from Ukraine to pay for industrial expansion, Stalin required that the farmers give up their land and move onto collective farms. Because of ten years of gun control laws, the farmers had no way to defend themselves when they were required to give up their land to the government. Millions of the most prosperous farmers were either sent to forced labor camps or were shot outright. With granaries full, some estimates show Stalin starved as many as 10 million people.

    By 1935 the Nationalist government of China forbade the Chinese people to own firearms. This certainly didn't make the Chinese people safer when from 1942-44 four million people died from starvation when the government confiscated their crops. Another four million were tortured and murdered when they didn't want to join the military or were "uncooperative" soldiers. In 1937 hundreds of thousands of the women and children of Nanking were left defenseless against Japanese invaders because of gun control laws forbidding them to defend themselves. They were raped, buried alive, burned alive and forced to watch as their own organs were cut out of them. The worst was yet to come in 1949 when the Communist takeover brought about the murder of another 35 million Chinese. Some historians put the death toll by the Communists as high as 100 million. We can believe Chairman Mao when he told us that guns are the ultimate source of all political power.

    Hitler was elected to power in January 1933. Because of gun control registration laws enacted 5 years earlier, Hitler already knew who owned the guns. Mass seizures of weapons would render the German people helpless. Hitler was to enact another gun control law in 1938. The very day after Kristallnacht, a Nazi-led night of lawlessness and murder against Jews, the Jews were forbidden by law to own a gun, a club, or any sharp-edged weapon. Rendered defenseless, and with census data and National ID Cards identifying who was Jewish, it was easy for the government to arrest the Jews and send them to concentration camps. Over 5 million Jews were slaughtered in these death camps. Many political opponents, pacifists, Slavs, Gypsies and others were also murdered during Hitler's regime. Nearly 21 million people perished under Hitler because they had been rendered defenseless by gun control laws.

    The moment Pol Pot seized power in Cambodia in 1975 he set out to disarm the population. The people were totally unaware and defenseless against what was to come. The entire population of Cambodia was herded onto collective farms. The whole country was turned into one big concentration camp where people had no homes, no possessions and even no families. A kind word to a child could be a crime big enough to sentence someone to death. Pol Pot's vision of a Communist "utopia" called for the "purifying" of the country by eliminating religious leaders, monks, nuns, priests, preachers, the Vietnamese along with other "undesirable" ethnic groups, professionals and intellectuals. Even those who wore eyeglasses were marked for death. Pol Pot's goal was to decrease the population of Cambodia from 7 million to 1 million. Fortunately this brutal murderer was stopped before reaching his goal, but the death toll was still staggering. There were 2,035,000 innocents murdered. Gun control did not benefit the people of Cambodia.

    World political leaders embraced the 1971 rise to power of Idi Amin in Uganda. Before Amin seized power, laws had been enacted that made it illegal for private citizens to own firearms. Amin immediately called for the slaughter of all soldiers whose loyalty he questioned. Over 16,000 men disappeared over the next few months. Amin said that his god told him to throw all the Asians out of the country. Then he said he was told to throw all the Englishmen out. Their lands and businesses were confiscated. Chaos broke out and in the end 300,000 innocents were brutally murdered in Uganda including a Supreme Court Justice who had dared to rule against Amin. Gun control did not bring peace to Uganda.

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    Elle's Avatar
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    Gun control certainly wasn't a help to the defenseless Tutsis of Rwanda in 1994. Unarmed and with their own government advocating violence against them, in just 100 days 800,000 Tutsis were slaughtered. The Minister of Defense who granted permission for gun permits and kept track of the gun registry was also the one who happened to be in charge of the killing campaign. To prevent victims from trying to escape the killings, roadblocks were set up and National ID Cards were checked to identify individuals who were marked for death just for simply being who they were.

    Targeting innocents for elimination is not something from the past, but continues all over the world today in places like Tibet, Bangladesh, Zimbabwe, Sudan, etc. Mix together hatred, government and defenseless citizens and what do you get? Millions of innocents slaughtered. But at least this is happening in far away places to people who are different from us, right? It could never happen here.

    As a nation, the United States has not been immune from targeting innocent people just for being who they are. In the 19th century up to 4 million Blacks were slaves and had no rights. America's early disarmament laws were targeted against only one race in order to keep them helpless. States carried laws that forbade even free Blacks from carrying firearms. Relations were also strained between Indians and Whites in early America. Both sides committed and accused the other of committing heinous crimes. Stripping the Indians of guns certainly didn't make them safer against the better-armed Whites. During the Second World War, 110,000 people, many of Japanese ancestry, were rounded up, disarmed and sent to camps here in America. Two-thirds of them were even American citizens. They had committed no crime, but being an American citizen didn't protect them. Just as in other countries, gun control laws in early America were used to target some minority groups and to render them helpless. But maybe gun control laws are working better in America today?

    On October 16, 1991 at Luby's Cafe in Killeen, Texas, gun control laws had deadly consequences for 23 people who were murdered by a lone gunman. A young doctor was helpless to protect her parents from being murdered when during the killing spree she remembered that her gun was in her car because it was illegal for her to carry it in her purse. Gun control laws also proved fatal on the morning of August 23, 2000 for the Carpenter children who lived in a rural community in California. Even though all five Carpenter children knew how to shoot, California law requires that guns be locked away from them. The children were left defenseless against an intruder armed with a pitchfork. The doors and windows had been barricaded and the phone lines cut. The intruder started stabbing 14- year- old Anna when 9-year old Ashley drew him away. He began stabbing Ashley who died while yelling at her older sisters to go. The girls thought of the gun, but they couldn't get to it since it was locked away. The three oldest girls escaped and ran to beg a neighbor for his rifle. He said no because the government would take it away from him. Authorities were called and arrived five to ten minutes later. But it was too late for 9-year old Ashley who died from 138 pitchfork wounds and 7-year-old John William who died with 46 wounds.

    When people accept being disarmed not only are they giving up their independence, but they become easy targets for criminals using even the simplest of weapons - a club, a pitchfork or even box-cutters. It's amazing how we are still not hearing the truth about gun control even after the murders of 9/11. How can the world not be asking the right questions about a system that allows thousands of people to die because they were rendered defenseless against thugs carrying only box-cutters!

    What Communist dictator Mao Zedong said is true about political power coming through the barrel of a gun. That is why the American Bill of Rights contains the Second Amendment. Political power was to be in the hands of the people - not just government! Our founders knew their history. What made the U.S. different from every other country in the world was that self-defense was a RIGHT, not a privilege, of the people.

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    conalabu is offline Grasshopper
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    Good post.
    And Shepards we shall be,
    for thee, My Lord, for thee,
    Power hath descended forth from Thy hand,
    That our feet may swiftly carry out Thy Command.
    So we shall flow a river forth to Thee
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    In Nomine Patris, Et Filli, Et Spiritus Sancti.

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    SaraJ is offline Banned
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    While I abhor the violence the use of guns brings I also feel the need of them for defence and protection. In my home in Texas we had 3 handguns, 2 rifles and a shotgun. I got my first hand gun when I was 8 years old and taught how to use it correctly. My father always told me, "Have a good reason for pointing a gun at a person but don't be afraid to pull the trigger if you have to." I have no problem with responsible people owning guns. I have big problems with guns in the hands of crazy people. But banning them won't stop crazy people from getting ahold of guns. Here citizens are prohitibed from owning guns but they still find a way to kill each other. So?

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    conalabu is offline Grasshopper
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaraJ View Post
    So?

    So people suck.
    And Shepards we shall be,
    for thee, My Lord, for thee,
    Power hath descended forth from Thy hand,
    That our feet may swiftly carry out Thy Command.
    So we shall flow a river forth to Thee
    And teeming with souls will it ever be.
    In Nomine Patris, Et Filli, Et Spiritus Sancti.

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    1955pirate is offline Rookie
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    I guess I was "pro-gun" before I even knew or had heard of the expression. They were just always there in our home for as long as I can remember. Of course, I grew up in a rural ranching/farming community and I can't recall any of my friends who did not grow up in the same gun enviornment.

    Now, after retiring from 30 years in law enforcement I am still "pro-gun" in the sense that I believe any U.S. citizen who is not disqualified under our present laws, i.e., criminal history, mental instability, etc. should be permitted to own a firearm. I also believe in the issuance of a CWP after thorough background investigation.

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    Elle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaraJ View Post
    While I abhor the violence the use of guns brings I also feel the need of them for defence and protection. In my home in Texas we had 3 handguns, 2 rifles and a shotgun. I got my first hand gun when I was 8 years old and taught how to use it correctly. My father always told me, "Have a good reason for pointing a gun at a person but don't be afraid to pull the trigger if you have to." I have no problem with responsible people owning guns. I have big problems with guns in the hands of crazy people. But banning them won't stop crazy people from getting ahold of guns. Here citizens are prohitibed from owning guns but they still find a way to kill each other. So?
    I don't believe that piece said anything along the lines of "getting rid of guns completely will stop violence", but everyone interprets things differently. No it wouldn't stop violence even if we did ban everyone from having them, people have been killing each other and other things for years before the first gun was invented.

  8. #8
    dadyswat's Avatar
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    Just a little additional

    In Our Opinion

    In fact, many nations with high gun ownership have significantly lower murder and suicide rates.


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    Harvard Journal Study of Worldwide Data Obliterates Notion that Gun Ownership Correlates with Violence Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy Confirms that Reducing Gun Ownership by Law-Abiding Citizens Does Nothing to Reduce Violence Worldwide
    By now, any informed American is familiar with Dr. John R. Lott, Jr.'s famous axiom of "More Guns, Less Crime." In other words, American jurisdictions that allow law-abiding citizens to exercise their Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms are far safer and more crime-free than jurisdictions that enact stringent "gun control" laws.
    Very simply, the ability of law-abiding citizens to possess firearms has helped reduce violent crime in America.
    Now, a Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy study shows that this is not just an American phenomenon. According to the study, worldwide gun ownership rates do not correlate with higher murder or suicide rates. In fact, many nations with high gun ownership have significantly lower murder and suicide rates.
    In their piece entitled Would Banning Firearms Reduce Murder and Suicide? A Review of International and some Domestic Evidence, Don B. Kates and Gary Mauser eviscerate "the mantra that more guns mean more deaths and that fewer guns, therefore, mean fewer deaths." In so doing, the authors provide fascinating historical insight into astronomical murder rates in the Soviet Union during the Cold War, and they dispel the myths that widespread gun ownership is somehow unique to the United States or that America suffers from the developed world's highest murder rate.
    To the contrary, they establish that Soviet murder rates far exceeded American murder rates, and continue to do so today, despite Russia's extremely stringent gun prohibitions. By 2004, they show, the Russian murder rate was nearly four times higher than the American rate.
    More fundamentally, Dr. Kates and Dr. Mauser demonstrate that other developed nations such as Norway, Finland, Germany, France and Denmark maintain high rates of gun ownership, yet possess murder rates lower than other developed nations in which gun ownership is much more restricted.
    For example, handguns are outlawed in Luxembourg, and gun ownership extremely rare, yet its murder rate is nine times greater than in Germany, which has one of the highest gun ownership rates in Europe. As another example, Hungary's murder rate is nearly three times higher than nearby Austria's, but Austria's gun ownership rate is over eight times higher than Hungary's. "Norway," they note, "has far and away Western Europe's highest household gun ownership rate (32%), but also its lowest murder rate. The Netherlands," in contrast, "has the lowest gun ownership rate in Western Europe (1.9%) ... yet the Dutch gun murder rate is higher than the Norwegian."
    Dr. Kates and Dr. Mauser proceed to dispel the mainstream misconception that lower rates of violence in Europe are somehow attributable to gun control laws. Instead, they reveal, "murder in Europe was at an all-time low before the gun controls were introduced." As the authors note, "strict controls did not stem the general trend of ever-growing violent crime throughout the post-WWII industrialized world."
    Citing England, for instance, they reveal that "when it had no firearms restrictions [in the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries], England had little violent crime." By the late 1990s, however, "England moved from stringent controls to a complete ban on all handguns and many types of long guns." As a result, "by the year 2000, violent crime had so increased that England and Wales had Europe's highest violent crime rate, far surpassing even the United States." In America, on the other hand, "despite constant and substantially increasing gun ownership, the United States saw progressive and dramatic reductions in criminal violence in the 1990s."
    Critically, Dr. Kates and Dr. Mauser note that "the fall in the American crime rate is even more impressive when compared with the rest of the world," where 18 of the 25 countries surveyed by the British Home Office suffered violent crime increases during that same period.
    Furthermore, the authors highlight the important point that while the American gun murder rate often exceeds that in other nations, the overall per capita murder rate in other nations (including other means such as strangling, stabbing, beating, etc.) is oftentimes much higher than in America.
    The reason that gun ownership doesn't correlate with murder rates, the authors show, is that violent crime rates are determined instead by underlying cultural factors. "Ordinary people," they note, "simply do not murder." Rather, "the murderers are a small minority of extreme antisocial aberrants who manage to obtain guns whatever the level of gun ownership" in their society.
    Therefore, "banning guns cannot alleviate the socio-cultural and economic factors that are the real determinants of violence and crime rates." According to Dr. Kates and Dr. Mauser, "there is no reason for laws prohibiting gun possession by ordinary, law-abiding, responsible adults because such people virtually never commit murder. If one accepts that such adults are far more likely to be victims of violent crime than to commit it, disarming them becomes not just unproductive but counter-productive."
    John Lott couldn't have stated it better himself.

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    Won't give up my weapons. Any of them. The most "exotic" weapon I have is an Ar-15. However, I use it on patrol. I usually have handguns and or shotguns for home protection.
    I also carry a concealed weapon everywhere I go. I may not have to just protect myself or my family but someone else also.
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    The pros and cons of gun control are many and varied.
    It is far too simplistic to say various genocides have occurred because of strict gun control.
    I for one would vote a big yes to keeping as many firearms as possible out of the hands of most British people.
    We are far too violent a nation to be trusted with things that go bang!
    Our inner cities, and ordinary towns, are already a no go area at night because of the antics of drunken yobs. God only knows what would happen if they had access to firearms.
    As for other countries I leave that up to the people who live there as they probably have a better idea of what works there.
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    SaraJ is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motorwaycop View Post
    Our inner cities, and ordinary towns, are already a no go area at night because of the antics of drunken yobs. God only knows what would happen if they had access to firearms.
    That could describe some of our neighborhoods here. The police even have armored military vehicles for going into them at night cause of the rocks, bottles and baseball bats in use. The curious thing is, the cops here hesitate to use their guns. Even to the point of getting killed. Weird.

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    America, and even Canada, are unique as far as having long histories of firearm ownership. To a lesser extent, Australia. I wish the Brits luck controlling the out-of-control elements of society, but lawbreakers by definition don't obey the law and will probably continue to find ways to indulge themselves at everyone else's expense.

    To me, gun control is a textbook Mozambique Drill.

    The less the government has its mitts in the people's lives the better.
    "Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible actions." ~ George Washington.

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    It is far too simplistic to say various genocides have occurred because of strict gun control.
    This is a true statement, however it would not be too simplistic to say that gun bans have rendered masses defenseless, making various genocides far easier tasks to accomplish. It would not even be much of a reach to say that gun bans make genocides more likely to occur.

    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money."
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    The opinions expressed by this poster are wholly his own, and should never be construed to even remotely be in representation of his employer, its agencies or assigns. In fact, they probably fail to be in alignment with the opinions of any rational human being.

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    markw76's Avatar
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    The Warsaw Ghetto at the outset of German expansion in WW2 proved that, as does every predominantly disarmed, subjugated citizenry suffering at the hands of their leaders. Africa and certain South American countries come to mind.
    "Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible actions." ~ George Washington.

    A Dead Enemy Is A Peaceful Enemy - Blessed Be The Peacemakers.

 

 

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