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  1. #1
    keith720's Avatar
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    Training Yesterday

    I went to some great training yesterday. It was use of force decision making and included a lot of shooting. The one thing I noticed was the different shooting practices. I'm pretty "Old School," and started so long ago, that I only had 6 shots to take care of a problem. I now carry a Glock 22 with 16 rounds, but when I was presented with a shoot situation, I usually resolved it with 2 or 3 rounds. The newer guys, on the other hand, usually unloaded 12 to 15 rounds to take care of the problem. I'm not saying which is right or which is wrong, just making an observation.
    For the morning will come. Brightly will it shine on the brave and true, kindly upon all who suffer for the cause, glorious upon the tombs of heroes. Thus will shine the dawn.

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  2. #2
    Standard Dave's Avatar
    Standard Dave is offline Constable
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    You can often tell when someone joined or did a particular course by the way they do it.

    Some of our driving instructors claim they can tell who else in the department trained an officer by the way they drive.
    "all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing" Edmund Burke.
    "the world is a dangerous place place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who do not do anything about it" Albert Einstein

  3. #3
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    keith,
    I usually unload my fist.
    What can I say that was the only thing I had when I started. But wait that's still about all I have?
    I do actually forget to go to my CS spray and baton as it's simply not been a habit thing for me as opposed to those newer to the job.
    the sole advantage of power is that you can do more good.
    ( Baltasar Gracian )

  4. #4
    jmur5074's Avatar
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    Well, I don't know what kind of course you went through, or what kind of initial training you had, but when I went through my initial firearms training (2004), I was told to shoot until the bad guy hit the dirt.
    No one has greater love than this, to lay down ones life for ones friends - John 15:13

    "The Wicked Flee When No Man Pursueth: But The Righteous Are Bold As A Lion".

    We lucky few, we band of brothers. For he who today sheds his blood with me shall be my brother.

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    The opinions, beliefs, and ideas expressed in this post are mine, and mine alone. They are NOT the opinions, beliefs, ideas, or policies of my Agency, Police Chief, City Council, or any member of my department.

  5. #5
    TXPO710's Avatar
    TXPO710 is offline Dumb ole' Cowboy
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmur5074 View Post
    I was told to shoot until the bad guy hit the dirt.
    Same here, but ever notice that if your hitting center mass, those paper targets just won't go down? Seriously though, I've noticed a lot of the "spray and pray" at training I've gone through. I shoot a 1911 and I genrally hit but I've seen the guys with glocks fireing away and not. Maybe it's the gun???

  6. #6
    MacLean's Avatar
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    It ain't the gun, it's the shooters and how they were trained.

    Remember a MAJORITY of new recruits now come to the academy without ever having any formal firearms training.

    My counterpart and I are almost guaranteed to be spending extra time with each new recruit now during their academy.

    The firearms staff down there sends them to us to get them up to snuff so they can pass their final if they do poorly on the midterm.

    These newer shooters have never been through an "old school" shooting program, and have never been taught the values of the old wheelgunners. Ammunition management is wishful thinking these days.

    Now, with all that said - the advent of the shoot down drill has become in favor again. Some of what you are seeing may actually be good - if they were taught the shootdown drill or second sight concepts.
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


    I was looking for a saint who was a devil of a lover,
    but every girl I found was either one way or the other...



  7. #7
    keith720's Avatar
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    I'm not saying one way is better than the other. My "targets " were "killed" with one or 2 shots, as were most of the other officers "targets", yet they kept firing. I agree with McClean that it's the way I was taught.
    I don't see the reasoning for pumping an extra 5 or 6 shots into a target once it's "dead."
    For the morning will come. Brightly will it shine on the brave and true, kindly upon all who suffer for the cause, glorious upon the tombs of heroes. Thus will shine the dawn.

    Winston Churchill

  8. #8
    Pedro56's Avatar
    Pedro56 is offline Englewood Ranger/Infidel Extraordinaire
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    Quote Originally Posted by keith720 View Post
    I'm not saying one way is better than the other. My "targets " were "killed" with one or 2 shots, as were most of the other officers "targets", yet they kept firing. I agree with McClean that it's the way I was taught.
    I don't see the reasoning for pumping an extra 5 or 6 shots into a target once it's "dead."

    Just to make sure it is dead. I have seen the hypes get up from some pretty amazing stuff. What if you forgot your silver bullets that night?
    http://www.lawenforcementforums.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic763_2.gif

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  9. #9
    MacLean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keith720 View Post
    I don't see the reasoning for pumping an extra 5 or 6 shots into a target once it's "dead."
    The current line of thought is that you are shooting to stop, not to kill.

    The target may indeed be "dead" after your two or three rounds, but maybe his brain and trigger finger hasn't received notice yet.

    There are some novel ways to train for this, but the best is with Sims. Cops have to know that one or two rounds may indeed kill the target, but that a dead target can kill you on the way out.
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


    I was looking for a saint who was a devil of a lover,
    but every girl I found was either one way or the other...



 

 

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