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  1. #21
    StanSwitek's Avatar
    StanSwitek is offline Corporal
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garda30055A
    Thats pretty much what I was thinking, for breaching etc yeah great but for taking a bad guy down I figured the 'extreme' result of a short range shot and the possibility of a long range shot hitting other people would have departments and forces changing over in this PC and accountable age we live in.
    One of the advantages of ghetto policing. People know when to hit the dirt & get out of the way, even the kids..

  2. #22
    StanSwitek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garda30055A
    Yes but you know as well as I do that the questions following that shoot will be:

    A, Couldnt they have used less lethal force and maimed him? or
    B, Couldnt they just have shot him in the arm/leg/etc.

    Reality doesnt play a part when its the cops people are talking about, remember?
    Every one in a while some dumb ass askes those questions. However, in the world of cops & robbers, that can ask that lame ass crud all they want. It doesnt fly. You dont go up against a person armed with a lethal weapon with a less lethat weapon unless adequately covered by officers with lethat force and even then only in rare instances.

  3. #23
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    BEK
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    I had an instructor who demonstrated with his shotgun and 00 buck how he can take out a hostage taker, not just once he showed us over and over. he proved to me and others how versitile a shotgun can be. With knowledge of your weapon and ammunition almost any leathel situation could be handled with a shotgun. Not saying that a shotgun is the tool to take into free hostages but hell to take somone out hiding behind another person is kinda kool.


  4. #24
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    kdm0409 is offline ^ Female Deputy
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    Ok, I want to give me opinion now !!! lol

    I would chose a shotgun working in the school. Some may ask why. Columbine and Padukha and other school shootings. I want to be able to be at least closely armed to the shooters that could come into my school. But now that I am in a school I don't have a shotgun in my car, what is the point? If it is in my car then what good is it? Now, the officers that respond to me have shotguns and some have the AR15's. I sure as hell want those guys on my side.

    Personally, as a female officer I like the shotguns. Call me redneck if ya want, but I like them and I like what they can do! Some female officers think they are too brutal and are too forceful, but like so many others have said you can take them and make them into less lethal forces. I have been hit with one of the bean bag rounds, knocked me on my butt and knocked the breath out of me. With my vest on it still left a massive bruise. I didn't think it would be that bad and thought that perps wouldn't acknowledge it. Dumb me for asking!! lol

    Just my opinion but I would love to have a shotgun in my car again!!
    It is better to be tried by 12, than carried by 6.
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  5. #25
    cntryboy0531 is offline THE five-oh
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    I have one. It's versatile, extremely damaging at close range, and it's one hell of an intimidation factor.

    And my policy... "I shoot with my handgun to fight my way to my shotgun."

  6. #26
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    First off, KDM0409, love tha avatar!

    Second, Garda,good question. The shotgun is much more versatile than most people imagine. It can be used with everything from solid slugs,to buckshot, to less than lethal rounds like bean bags. It can also be used as a launching platform for projectiles such as gas. You also have the psycological effect of the slide racking. More than one bad guy has given up when a shotgun was racked.

    As to your too much force question, I dont believe there is such a thing. I have heard cases where a cop was accused of shooting a skell too many times, but never where they used too big a gun. I keep up with these things. It may have happened, but I have never heard of it.

    Look me up when you come stateside, I will let you shoot some interesting stuff.


    Norm. Verified civilian. Take that for what its worth.

  7. #27
    Signal_W Guest
    I take the shotty on armed parties and hold-up's. There is nothing scarier to the average person than racking the shot gun. There is no other sound like it and everyone hits the floor without a word being said.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Signal_W
    I take the shotty on armed parties and hold-up's. There is nothing scarier to the average person than racking the shot gun. There is no other sound like it and everyone hits the floor without a word being said.
    You got that right. Especially in the states atleast. You rack that shotgun and white, black, purple, orange whatever the case maybe. They will hit the ground and start screaming don't shoot I give. There are those that feel the need to try and shoot back but hey for those that do they have whats coming to them on the return fire.

    Norm. Verified civilian. Take that for what its worth.
    I am impressed Norm you have actually understood what we are always telling you . We luv ya Norm.
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  9. #29
    Welpe's Avatar
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    Norm just called himself a civilian...

    Will, at first I read "armed parties" as "parties". I was thinking "Man this guy doesn't mess around!"
    "To the German commander: 'Nuts!' The American Commander" - General Tony McAuliffe, 101st Airborne Division

  10. #30
    121Traffic's Avatar
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    I can echo the sentiments of the shotgun here...although ours aren't EVER loaded with buck anymore. Less-lethal beanbag only. Went to a suicidal party last night, cutting himself on his balcony. Showed up, we all had our guns out, saying drop the knife, come out, etc. Guy says..."I'm finishing my cigarette...then maybe we'll talk." All it took was *SHICKSHICK* BEANBAG READY! XXXX Police Department! Subject, drop the knife or I WILL fire in FIVE, FOUR, THREE, TWO...! Guy throws it over the balcony and gets flat on his stomach. "HOly shit, don't shoot me!" Hell, I even KNEW someone was deploying beanbag (Corporal advised one of us over the radio while enroute), and I even almost proned out whn I heard it beside me!



    I will say that our adminitrators don't let us use anything other than beanbag in the guns for liability reasons, and I kinda agree with em. Our shotguns have reflective yellow tape on the stocks and have LESS-LETHAL written on them. All it takes is one time for some dumbass cop to load up with buck, then oing EOW after an incident, and the next dumbass cop not to check the gun when he gets it next shift. He thinks he's beaning someone when he's actually giving them a good case of leadgut.

    Bottom line...if it's less lethal, then it's ONLY less lethal. Get a seperate shotgun for lethal use.
    "If anything worthwhile comes of this tragedy, it should be the realization by every citizen that often the only thing that stands between them and losing everything they hold dear... is the man wearing a badge." -- Ronald Reagan, in the wake of the deaths of 4 CHP troopers in the Newhall Incident, 1970

    The opinions given in my posts DO NOT reflect the opinions, views, policies, and/or procedures of my employing agency. They are my personal opinions only, thereby releasing my agency of any liability, or involvement in anything posted under the username "121Traffic" on O/R.

  11. #31
    MountainCop Guest
    For anyone in my department to carry any weapon, we have to qualify. So, we have the handgun of choice, the rifle of choice and a shotgun.

    Preferred on the handgun is .45 cal with Federal LE +P hollow point. Minimum is Federal Hydra-Shok

    Rifle: Officer's choice, but I prefer my Bushmaster semi M4 type (5.56 NATO). Damned accurate even with the iron sights.

    Shotgun: 00 buck.

    Note: the sound of a shotgun racking is the most pants-wetting sound I've ever heard

    We do not carry less-lethal firearms. Since our backup in almost all cases is 6 mins away, and most of the time we are running by ourselves, we feel we don't have the luxury of deploying less-lethal in a bad situation.

  12. #32
    kdm0409's Avatar
    kdm0409 is offline ^ Female Deputy
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    We had the shot guns in the cars when I worked for the campus. Most people thought it was cool that we had them. We ended up changing to the ones with no racking sound.. takes all the fun away if you ask me.
    It is better to be tried by 12, than carried by 6.
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  13. #33
    Virginian's Avatar
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    We ended up changing to the ones with no racking sound
    A semi-auto shotgun or what? Never heard of a pump with no sound!

  14. #34
    Ken K is offline Banned
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    I even remember a discussion years ago about going to short double barrel shot guns for psychological effect. It dieds after almost everyone pointed out the value of hearing that lovely racking sound.

    The bad guy has to see the double barrel, you get only two shots, while all he needs is to hear the pump.

  15. #35
    kdm0409's Avatar
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    A semi-auto shotgun or what? Never heard of a pump with no sound!
    Yes a semi-auto.. I didn't say it was a pump with no sound.. just said it had no racking sound.. was testing people.. you passed lol

    They were a lot lighter-weight than the pumps, but damn nothing gets attention like a pump
    It is better to be tried by 12, than carried by 6.
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  16. #36
    Virginian's Avatar
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    I like the simplicity of the pumps too. A lot less moving parts to get messed up. But somehow I managed to mess up my extractor so the shells get stuck in the mag of my Remington

  17. #37
    Einstein's Avatar
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    I love the sound of a shotgun being racked. We even had one with a 30 round drum magazine for house clearing.
    Servamus et Servimus........"To Serve and Protect"

  18. #38
    StanSwitek's Avatar
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    We used to have the Remington 870 wingmaster with the folding stocks & pistol grips. I even shot a robbery suspect with one. When we would break those out, people would piss their pants taking cover...

 

 
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