Welcome to the APBWeb.
Results 1 to 14 of 14
  1. #1
    lewisipso's Avatar
    lewisipso is offline Injustice/Indifference/In God we trust
    Supporting Member Lvl 3
    Verified LEO
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    02-02-07
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    14,720
    Rep Power
    6936011

    The Evolving Societal and Criminal Mentality

    Mentality
    1. perceptual framework: a habitual way of thinking or interpreting events peculiar to an individual or type of person, especially with reference to the behaviors that it produces
    2. intellectual ability: somebody’s intellectual ability
    I must admit it seems I am not as aware as I use to be. I just noticed a tag line on a fellow posters signature. It was a link to a you tube video concerning gangs in the military. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgwfVJIoBNM Hat tipped to CTRman.
    The video also led into how law enforcement officers are unprepared to deal with such individuals upon their return to civilian life. How violent they are to begin with and on top of that, receiving proper military training. I have often wondered and worried about this same situation and how I would deal with it. I have also wondered how these things are allowed to happen in the first place. I remember the military (National Guard for me) being so very strict I was afraid to sneeze in public without permission. The video began me thinking. Why would such behavior be tolerated? Especially in such a strict atmosphere as the military.
    I had the opportunity to observe quite a few military personnel while visiting my son in Germany last year. He doesn’t necessarily care to associate with them but does since he has to work with them on a daily basis. So they have a social event of some kind every once in a while along with some other associates from his base. While observing these persons it became apparent that most if not all of their lifestyles were of a questionable format. Speech and behavioral patterns really explained volumes. Even the disregard of the proper wearing of the uniform was very apparent. Very aloof attitudes were abound. What was even more surprising to me was the lack of administration and control from command personnel. It was literally as if they did not care. Now I’m sure not all command personnel have that attitude but the amount I saw was surprising. If even the FBI are seeing this as an issue. Why isn’t the military policing itself? I’m sure there is a reasonable explanation but I doubt seriously I would agree with it.
    Observing what I did and watching the video previously mentioned made me delve into further thinking. Is it just me or has most of the world saddled up with a “give a shit” attitude? I mean really, it’s no wonder things have deteriorated to this point. With “traditional” morals and the like being eroded away little by little over numerous years, future generations seem to be ok with “easy street”. Continuous governmental handouts, accepting laziness and poor work ethics etc. There’s also the “Your 8 year old ass better behave or I’m gonna have that cop take you to jail.” I’m seriously considering telling the next one that says that to discipline the little demon child you created yourself. Take his cell phone and Playstation2 away and stop letting him listen to Chamillionaire’s riding dirty. Give the little shit a book if they can comprehend it. Better yet, get down on your knees every night and say a good night prayer. (But that’s a whole other issue isn’t it?) You don’t know it yet Mr and or Mrs Parent but your wild in the street child is the next military commanding officer who is either in or doesn’t care about the gang in the military who will be well trained, go to war, come back with a hard on for a cop and find me. I do solemnly swear to do everything in my power to protect myself and get home to my family at the end of my shift. See you at the funeral.
    I was always taught that hard way may be hard but the easy way is usually mined. It is indeed mined. It’s mined worse than the casual observer could ever comprehend. Once the road to a degraded inappropriate mentality is accessed traveling further on it to the bowels of criminality is nothing more than a destination.
    I learned in domestic violence trainings that domestic violence is a learned behavior. Now since I have to deal with all sorts of persons on a regular basis I consider myself somewhat of a behavioral expert. I have accepted into my everyday routine that everything a person does is a learned behavior of some form. Having a lack of proper or appropriate behavior is, in my opinion, a direct result of “teaching” beginning early in life and then continuing, of an inappropriate way of doing things. This is achieved in one of two ways. Either a person is taught directly via another persons words or actions or indirectly by allowing inappropriate behavior to go unchecked or undisciplined. In my wide world of conspiracy theories does it not make sense that society has arrived where we are today due to exactly what I’m talking about? Pretty soon the inappropriate things that are being done in society will take over and become the appropriate thing to do. And I’m not necessarily talking about criminal actions although it is prevalent in my area that numerous “minor” infractions of the law are being dismissed at an alarming rate. Even some of our more youthful law enforcement officers are conducting themselves in activities not criminal but certainly questionable in nature. Not to say older officers are without fault. Don't misunderstand. I describe this as starting off with a bag of sugar that has a grain of salt added to it. No problem. No difference in taste. However, if you continuously add a grain of salt, over time, it will replace the sugar and you will have a bag of salt. The transition is so gradual over time it is barely noticed and seems to be a process well tolerated.
    I guess the question at hand is, is it even possible to recover from generations of societal degradation? And if so how? Is it the governments responsibility to play the role that parents won’t? I personally don’t see that working in any fashion. The politicians seem to be doing such a bang up job. (insert sarcasm here) Even with the welfare system allegedly being “revamped” some years ago, there hasn’t been much change in that department that I have seen. Even so, it seems that if a system is put into place to “assist” certain demographics in society it cannot teach appropriate behavior. That is the sole responsibility of some parental figure. Not to mention that any system put in place, given time, will eventually be abused by it’s recipients. Hmmm….human nature? Nope, just a degraded societal mentality. God help us all.
    Do not war for peace. If you must war, war for justice. For without justice there is no peace. -me

    We are who we choose to be.

    R.I.P. Arielle. 08/20/2010-09/16/2012


  2. #2
    mack's Avatar
    mack is offline Officer Resource Offical Auctioneer
    Premium Lifetime Member
    Join Date
    05-25-07
    Location
    SE Indiana, I love this weather!
    Posts
    3,388
    Rep Power
    555155
    Excellent Lewis, CTRman showed me the video and others some time ago. The thought scares the crap out of me. I agree with every point you made above, all very well said, rep on the way.

    My dad, I miss him every day.

    Originally Posted by Wolven
    Life is too short to wear unsexy underwear.


    I am a female!!!!! LMAO

    Be who you are and say what you feel.....
    Because those that matter...don't mind...
    And those that mind...don't matter

  3. #3
    Jenna's Avatar
    Jenna is offline sheep
    Premium Lifetime Member
    Join Date
    06-11-06
    Posts
    24,371
    Rep Power
    4817857
    Insightful and thought-provoking rant. You really go beyond the surface to look at root causes.

  4. #4
    gozling's Avatar
    gozling is offline the gene pool could use a little chlorine
    Join Date
    06-28-06
    Location
    O'ahu Hawaii
    Posts
    4,278
    Rep Power
    610543
    I am amazed at how many Marines on base that are under Paul have a criminal record. Paul was amazed as well that they were recruited! Then it is such a surprise to the Bat Cmdr when a 5k flat screen tv goes missing?
    I liked what you wrote a lot and the part that hit me the hardest was how it takes years to create problems with children and then how a parent can just throw their arms up and say, "oh well I tried". The displacement of responsibility scares me in many parts of our society.
    The gradual acceptance is extremely frightening
    http://www.allpoetry.com/Grunts%20Girl

    We dallied under
    Vine maples and sapling alders
    Searched for lady slippers
    But instead
    Found blackberry riots and
    Desiccated branches

    An old skid road
    Brought ghost ferns and
    Hollows filled with
    Skunk cabbage
    While waves wrapped
    Intricate lacings of weeds
    'Round mule spinners

    His cyanotic eyes
    Were hard enough to make
    The sun turn tail and
    Tender enough to attract me
    To his world of illusion

  5. #5
    mack's Avatar
    mack is offline Officer Resource Offical Auctioneer
    Premium Lifetime Member
    Join Date
    05-25-07
    Location
    SE Indiana, I love this weather!
    Posts
    3,388
    Rep Power
    555155
    Working in corrections we had a lot of juvenile offenders come in. DJJ (Dept of Juvenile Justice) usually refused to take them saying they didn't meet the criteria for them to take into custody. We would then call the parents, who more times than not would say "Leave them where they are, we can't do anything with them, I wash my hands of him/her." By law an adult facility cannot hold a juvenile that has not been ajudicated an adult for more than 6 hours. So, we couldn't keep them, we couldn't release them except to an adult, we were stuck. We usually would call the Childrens Shelter and have to take a Deputy off the road to relay them up the Keys. At which time they would escape from the Shelter and cause us even more problems. Still the parents wash their hands and leave the problem to others to deal with after they have screwed the kid up to begin with. It is about time for people to accept the responsibility for their actions. These parents need to be parents from the start, not sit back 12+ years down the road and bitch about their rotten kid and how could the kid do this to them, or how much the kid has embarrassed them in front of their friends and neighbors.

    My dad, I miss him every day.

    Originally Posted by Wolven
    Life is too short to wear unsexy underwear.


    I am a female!!!!! LMAO

    Be who you are and say what you feel.....
    Because those that matter...don't mind...
    And those that mind...don't matter

  6. #6
    MacLean's Avatar
    MacLean is offline O/R Gun mod
    Verified LEO
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    09-05-07
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    11,802
    Rep Power
    4584773
    The military is merely a reflection of society, and because of it's construction it magnifies some issues and hides others.
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


    I was looking for a saint who was a devil of a lover,
    but every girl I found was either one way or the other...



  7. #7
    Xiphos's Avatar
    Xiphos is offline I Void Warranties
    Verified LEO
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    03-09-08
    Location
    Thermopylae
    Posts
    8,378
    Rep Power
    7772239
    Quote Originally Posted by lewisipso View Post
    Why would such behavior be tolerated?
    The military is struggling to recruit and needs cannon fodder. These guys aren't getting selected for their intelligence and leadership ability.
    Pleasing nobody, one person at a time.

    That which does not kill me, better start fucking running.

    If I lived every day like it was my last, the body count would be staggering.

    I intend to go in harm's way. -John Paul Jones

    Hunt the wolf, and bring light to the dark places that others fear to go. LT COL Dave Grossman

  8. #8
    MacLean's Avatar
    MacLean is offline O/R Gun mod
    Verified LEO
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    09-05-07
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    11,802
    Rep Power
    4584773
    Quote Originally Posted by Xiphos View Post
    The military is struggling to recruit and needs cannon fodder. These guys aren't getting selected for their intelligence and leadership ability.
    There is some of that, but not as many as you posit.

    By and large, the US military has little use for "cannon fodder" as the term is used.

    I think it's more likely during war time, agreed, but I don't think that explains the problem.

    Interestingly enough, line combat units are exceeding retention and recruiting goals - which tells me professional soldiering is still a profession.
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


    I was looking for a saint who was a devil of a lover,
    but every girl I found was either one way or the other...



  9. #9
    Willowdared's Avatar
    Willowdared is offline Bendy not Breaky
    Join Date
    04-26-06
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    6,177
    Rep Power
    1401351
    Quote Originally Posted by gozling View Post
    I am amazed at how many Marines on base that are under Paul have a criminal record.
    We've had at least 3 armed robbery series that involved active duty military in this area.
    Molly Weasley makes Chuck Norris eat his vegetables.

    Do not puff, shade, skew, tailor, firm up, stretch, massage,
    or otherwise distort statements of fact.
    FBI Special Agent Coleen Rowley

  10. #10
    Pudge's Avatar
    Pudge is online now Site Admin
    Verified LEO
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    12-04-05
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    10,320
    Rep Power
    8591417
    Great post Lew.

    Unfortunately it's going to take decades upon decades of good, righteous people teaching their own children the correct ways for this to unravel. The government isn't going to help, we (as in LE) can't raise everybody's kids, and the lazy excuses for role models will just have to become outnumbered again as things turn around.
    "Like" us on facebook! https://www.facebook.com/pages/Offic...93147194083228

    Follow members of O/R as they tweet a "Ride a long" on their shifts on the front page of the site and on twitter at the following links:

    www.twitter.com/PoliceRideAlong
    www.twitter.com/lewisipso
    www.twitter.com/ORgopher
    www.twitter.com/SecondChance122
    www.twitter.com/pojmm
    www.twitter.com/ORGIB

    The opinions given in my posts & threads DO NOT reflect the opinions, views, policies, and/or procedures of my employing agency. They are my personal opinions only, thereby releasing my agency of any liability, or involvement in anything posted under the username "Pudge" on Officerresource.com

  11. #11
    CTR man's Avatar
    CTR man is offline Officer First Class
    Supporting Member Lvl 3
    Join Date
    05-20-06
    Location
    Ceres, CA
    Posts
    4,965
    Rep Power
    1169036
    Who would have thought that youtube video that I chose to put in my signature would spark a post such as this. Thanks, Lewisipso for picking up on it and making this post. The first 1/3 of the video happened right here in my hometown. This is one of the reasons I put it there. Not only because my local LE was involved, but to bring these points to attention. Has the military become lax in their recruiting proceedures to let these type of individuals enlist? This event turned my whole town upside down.

    As Lewis said, " Why isn't the military policing itself." From what I have seen, I think the military knows that there is a problem, but either they are downplaying it because they want more to enlist to fight this war or they don't know or have forgotten how to handle it. My solution to this problem is not to let gangbangers or individuals with gang ties into the military period. No waivers.

    Society has eroded to the point where people are all too quick to blame the school systems and LE on why their kids turned out so bad. If people would start being parents to their kids instead of just being their friends, maybe things would be different. Way too many parents are literally letting their kids get away with bloody murder and do the things that they, as kids were not allowed to say or do. Some are even trying to relive their lives through their kids. Too many parents are even afraid to physically discipline their kids in public in fear that they will be arrested for child abuse. This crap of "I am going to let my kid have this toy or do this thing because I wasn't allowed to do it." has got to stop.

    LE has every right to do whatever they have to do to ensure that they are able to be with their families after work is over. If that means killing some Johnny Thuglet that is a threat to society then so be it. That's what happened with Andres Raya. SWAT eventually got to him. It's too bad that Howie Stevenson had to give is life to protect the rest of the citizens in my town. Go and read some of the reflections on Howie's ODMP page. Or any other officer who was taken by gunfire. Stephan Gray, Earl Scott, or how about Daniel Faulkner for that matter. What's his name Mumia should have been fried a long time ago. As should Tao Rivera and Columbus Allen respectively. These officers are sorely missed by their families and coworkers. It's a crying shame. Literally.

    Is it the governments responsibility to play the role that parents won’t? I think a similar example was learned with the natural disasters that we have had, just substitute the word parents with individuals. The Swamp Mafia knows all too well knows what happened with Katrina. As with the natural disasters, people steping in to help each other out; so it is with the gangs. The only way in my opinon that we are ever going to get out of this gang problem is to start and keep being involved in our childrens lives and quit taking the easy way out.

    Words to live by. "I never said it would be easy, I only said it would be worth it.


    Choose The Right. When you're doing whats right, then you have nothing to worry about.

    Not a LEO

    In memory of Sgt. Howard K. Stevenson 1965 - 2005. Ceres Police Dept.
    In memory of Robert N. Panos 1955 - 2008 Ceres Police Dept.









  12. #12
    213th's Avatar
    213th is offline Solipsist
    Join Date
    12-19-05
    Location
    64.3 N 149.1 W
    Posts
    3,672
    Rep Power
    1712095
    The military in part needs to bring back "wall-to-wall counseling"
    He who has the money, signs the cheques.
    He who signs the cheques, makes the rules.
    He who makes the rules, has the power.
    He who has the power, has the money.

  13. #13
    ex401mp's Avatar
    ex401mp is offline Was betrachten Sie?
    Verified LEO
    Join Date
    06-04-07
    Location
    Sw Florida
    Posts
    1,824
    Rep Power
    645327
    Quote Originally Posted by 213th View Post
    The military in part needs to bring back "wall-to-wall counseling"
    + 100000000 That worked for me when I was an NCO.
    The problem with the gangs and such in the military is that the chain of command sweeps it under the rug. None of them want to have this stuffmentioned because it affects their promotions and such. Gangs in the military is not new. As an Army MP back in the mid 80's to mid 90's, we had to deal with them all the time. I am not sure how they are dealt with nowadays, but back then we had a policy for them that we called beat and release (to the unit commander). We did not tolerate their thuggish mentality and we were expected to handle it, and strongly encourage a behavior change it when we came across it (especially at Fort Hood, Texas). Sure sucks to see thugs running around in my Army now. I guess wartime breeds this kind of stuff also, especially with all the long deployments. I could half understand if the draft was still going on, but these people are volunteers and were not forced into the military, so I cant understand such a lack of discipline that is rampant now in all the branches.
    Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American G.I.
    One died for your soul, the other for your freedom. ~ Anon

    si hic carrus commovet non quaerete

    RIP Scott L. Roth- Pfc 1st Platoon,401st MP Co, KIA 12/20/89- Operation Just Cause- Not forgotten.
    ALWAYS FIRST!!!

  14. #14
    gozling's Avatar
    gozling is offline the gene pool could use a little chlorine
    Join Date
    06-28-06
    Location
    O'ahu Hawaii
    Posts
    4,278
    Rep Power
    610543
    Quote Originally Posted by ex401mp View Post
    + 100000000 That worked for me when I was an NCO.
    The problem with the gangs and such in the military is that the chain of command sweeps it under the rug. None of them want to have this stuffmentioned because it affects their promotions and such. Gangs in the military is not new. As an Army MP back in the mid 80's to mid 90's, we had to deal with them all the time. I am not sure how they are dealt with nowadays, but back then we had a policy for them that we called beat and release (to the unit commander). We did not tolerate their thuggish mentality and we were expected to handle it, and strongly encourage a behavior change it when we came across it (especially at Fort Hood, Texas). Sure sucks to see thugs running around in my Army now. I guess wartime breeds this kind of stuff also, especially with all the long deployments. I could half understand if the draft was still going on, but these people are volunteers and were not forced into the military, so I cant understand such a lack of discipline that is rampant now in all the branches.
    I agree and disagree.
    I know that from what the hubby has had to deal with in regards to disciplinary issues has been really serious the past couple of months. Since this is in the public forum I am not going to post the specifics but he and his command staff have very strict with punishments and most have been discharged in the bad way (i forget exactly the wordage for it)... many spend time in the military jail too before they head home. It seemed that its about 10% of his group who have this problem.
    Some of them did things so they would not have to be deployed back
    Some of them did things because that is their nature.
    The ones who did not want to be deployed back usually ended up staying but got harsh punishments.
    I cannot speak for other branches of the military nor other areas of the Marine Corps.
    http://www.allpoetry.com/Grunts%20Girl

    We dallied under
    Vine maples and sapling alders
    Searched for lady slippers
    But instead
    Found blackberry riots and
    Desiccated branches

    An old skid road
    Brought ghost ferns and
    Hollows filled with
    Skunk cabbage
    While waves wrapped
    Intricate lacings of weeds
    'Round mule spinners

    His cyanotic eyes
    Were hard enough to make
    The sun turn tail and
    Tender enough to attract me
    To his world of illusion

 

 

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •