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  1. #1
    Kate's Avatar
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    Bigger Is Better?

    Video 1

    Shamelessly stolen from one of my fave bloggers, Captain America @ First In


    US uses bullets ill-suited for new ways of war

    Source


    WASHINGTON - As Sgt. Joe Higgins patrolled the streets of Saba al-Bor, a tough town north of Baghdad, he was armed with bullets that had a lot more firepower than those of his 4th Infantry Division buddies.

    As an Army sniper, Higgins was one of the select few toting an M14. The long-barreled rifle, an imposing weapon built for wars long past, spits out bullets larger and more deadly than the rounds that fit into the M4 carbines and M16 rifles that most soldiers carry.

    "Having a heavy cartridge in an urban environment like that was definitely a good choice," says Higgins, who did two tours in Iraq and left the service last year. "It just has more stopping power."


    Strange as it sounds, nearly seven years into the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, bullets are a controversial subject for the U.S.

    The smaller, steel-penetrating M855 rounds continue to be a weak spot in the American arsenal. They are not lethal enough to bring down an enemy decisively, and that puts troops at risk, according to Associated Press interviews.

    Designed decades ago to puncture a Soviet soldier's helmet hundreds of yards away, the M855 rounds are being used for very different targets in Iraq and Afghanistan. Much of today's fighting takes place in close quarters; narrow streets, stairways and rooftops are today's battlefield. Legions of armor-clad Russians marching through the Fulda Gap in Germany have given way to insurgents and terrorists who hit and run.

    Fired at short range, the M855 round is prone to pass through a body like a needle through fabric. That does not mean being shot is a pain-free experience. But unless the bullet strikes a vital organ or the spine, the adrenaline-fueled enemy may have the strength to keep on fighting and even live to fight another day.


    Video 2

  2. #2
    Mike Dimone is offline Officer First Class
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    Kate's the best.....

  3. #3
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    This is a very old fight, indeed.
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


    I was looking for a saint who was a devil of a lover,
    but every girl I found was either one way or the other...



  4. #4
    Kate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Dimone View Post
    Kate's the best.....
    Thanks, Mike!

  5. #5
    Kate's Avatar
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    How do I get YouTube videos to work here?

  6. #6
    MacLean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katey View Post
    How do I get YouTube videos to work here?
    You don't - we have our own video uploader

    If you would be so kind as to provide your video to Reca for review, he will put it up if appropriate.
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


    I was looking for a saint who was a devil of a lover,
    but every girl I found was either one way or the other...



  7. #7
    Kate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maclean View Post
    You don't - we have our own video uploader

    If you would be so kind as to provide your video to Reca for review, he will put it up if appropriate.
    I've already PM'd him about fixing the title of the thread. I'm afraid if I PM him for help one more time, he might go insane!

  8. #8
    Kate's Avatar
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    maclean,

    Is it possible for you to fix the title of the thread for me? I don't know who all the mods are yet, but I did just notice you are one.

  9. #9
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    Too late, he's already insane.
    Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American G.I.
    One died for your soul, the other for your freedom. ~ Anon

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  10. #10
    Kate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maclean View Post
    I can also fix the thread title for you, as I am on now.
    Damn, you're quick!

  11. #11
    MacLean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katey View Post
    Damn, you're quick!
    Don't let that word get out.
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


    I was looking for a saint who was a devil of a lover,
    but every girl I found was either one way or the other...



  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katey View Post
    maclean,

    Is it possible for you to fix the title of the thread for me? I don't know who all the mods are yet, but I did just notice you are one.
    When it says site moderator next to their name...it might be a pretty good bet that they might be a mod

    And if you ask me....bigger is better. I do not care for the current configuration of 5.56 and 9mm nato. I'd rather upgrade to atleast a .308/40 combo.
    He who has the money, signs the cheques.
    He who signs the cheques, makes the rules.
    He who makes the rules, has the power.
    He who has the power, has the money.

  13. #13
    Kate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maclean View Post
    Don't let that word get out.
    I won't tell a soul.

  14. #14
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    I think there's a good case for the 6.5 Grendel and the 6.8 SPC. Still small and light enough to carry a lot of but big enough to do some serious damage.
    Pleasing nobody, one person at a time.

    That which does not kill me, better start fucking running.

    If I lived every day like it was my last, the body count would be staggering.

    I intend to go in harm's way. -John Paul Jones

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  15. #15
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    If you drop back to the 55 grain M109 (I think that's the designation) it tumbels once it hits. Huge wound channel with 6 inch penatration. I carry these or the TAP in 20 rounders for anti personel and m855 for barrier. It's all about the right ammo.

  16. #16
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    I'll have you know that Maclean is both quick... and easy.

    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money."
    - Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America

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    The opinions expressed by this poster are wholly his own, and should never be construed to even remotely be in representation of his employer, its agencies or assigns. In fact, they probably fail to be in alignment with the opinions of any rational human being.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by countybear View Post
    I'll have you know that Maclean is both quick... and easy.
    Don't you just hate it when someone's balls are hidden so well, they can't seem to find it themselves ~ RSA

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  18. #18
    MacLean's Avatar
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    Thppppt to both of ya's!

    On the topic of the OP, this is an argument that has been going on since Vietnam.

    The US Military isn't likely to change chamberings any time soon, so that rules out the otherwise demonstrated success of the SPC and Grendel offerings.

    The .223/556 round is perfectly mission capable - it is the BULLET itself that causes the issue here.

    Since we are not fighting uniformed, declared combatants in the 'Stan or in Iraq when dealing with Iranian insurgents, we are also not bound to the perceived ban on expanding ammunition.

    Such a finding has already been made by Army JAG in regards to hollow point sniper ammunition.

    It would be very easy to move to a 60 to 77 grain hollowpoint projectile for the M-16 series of weapons. The 77 grain Mark 252 comes to mind.

    Soldiers are always going to bitch.

    In that article, they decry lack of stopping power and then go on to decry lack of penetration on barriers. Alas, physics has to catch up with us at some point.

    Even the venerable 7.62 is going to fair better on one category than the other, depending on bullet design.
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


    I was looking for a saint who was a devil of a lover,
    but every girl I found was either one way or the other...



 

 

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