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Thread: Bigger Is Better?
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05-29-08, 06:10 PM #1
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Bigger Is Better?
Video 1
Shamelessly stolen from one of my fave bloggers, Captain America @ First In
US uses bullets ill-suited for new ways of war
Source
WASHINGTON - As Sgt. Joe Higgins patrolled the streets of Saba al-Bor, a tough town north of Baghdad, he was armed with bullets that had a lot more firepower than those of his 4th Infantry Division buddies.
As an Army sniper, Higgins was one of the select few toting an M14. The long-barreled rifle, an imposing weapon built for wars long past, spits out bullets larger and more deadly than the rounds that fit into the M4 carbines and M16 rifles that most soldiers carry.
"Having a heavy cartridge in an urban environment like that was definitely a good choice," says Higgins, who did two tours in Iraq and left the service last year. "It just has more stopping power."
Strange as it sounds, nearly seven years into the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, bullets are a controversial subject for the U.S.
The smaller, steel-penetrating M855 rounds continue to be a weak spot in the American arsenal. They are not lethal enough to bring down an enemy decisively, and that puts troops at risk, according to Associated Press interviews.
Designed decades ago to puncture a Soviet soldier's helmet hundreds of yards away, the M855 rounds are being used for very different targets in Iraq and Afghanistan. Much of today's fighting takes place in close quarters; narrow streets, stairways and rooftops are today's battlefield. Legions of armor-clad Russians marching through the Fulda Gap in Germany have given way to insurgents and terrorists who hit and run.
Fired at short range, the M855 round is prone to pass through a body like a needle through fabric. That does not mean being shot is a pain-free experience. But unless the bullet strikes a vital organ or the spine, the adrenaline-fueled enemy may have the strength to keep on fighting and even live to fight another day.
Video 2
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05-29-08, 06:23 PM #2
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Kate's the best.....
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05-29-08, 06:23 PM #3
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This is a very old fight, indeed.
I'm your huckleberry...
Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!
You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.
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05-29-08, 06:26 PM #4
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Thanks, Mike!
Originally Posted by Mike Dimone
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05-29-08, 06:27 PM #5
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How do I get YouTube videos to work here?
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05-29-08, 06:32 PM #6
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You don't - we have our own video uploader Originally Posted by Katey
How do I get YouTube videos to work here?
If you would be so kind as to provide your video to Reca for review, he will put it up if appropriate.I'm your huckleberry...
Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!
You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.
I was looking for a saint who was a devil of a lover,
but every girl I found was either one way or the other...
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05-29-08, 06:39 PM #7
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I've already PM'd him about fixing the title of the thread. I'm afraid if I PM him for help one more time, he might go insane! Originally Posted by maclean
You don't - we have our own video uploader
If you would be so kind as to provide your video to Reca for review, he will put it up if appropriate.
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05-29-08, 06:41 PM #8
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maclean,
Is it possible for you to fix the title of the thread for me? I don't know who all the mods are yet, but I did just notice you are one.
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05-29-08, 06:41 PM #9
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Too late, he's already insane.
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05-29-08, 06:42 PM #10
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Damn, you're quick! Originally Posted by maclean
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05-29-08, 06:43 PM #11
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Don't let that word get out. Originally Posted by Katey
Damn, you're quick!
I'm your huckleberry...
Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!
You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.
I was looking for a saint who was a devil of a lover,
but every girl I found was either one way or the other...
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05-29-08, 06:43 PM #12
It's empty and cold without you here
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When it says site moderator next to their name...it might be a pretty good bet that they might be a mod Originally Posted by Katey
maclean,
Is it possible for you to fix the title of the thread for me? I don't know who all the mods are yet, but I did just notice you are one.
And if you ask me....bigger is better. I do not care for the current configuration of 5.56 and 9mm nato. I'd rather upgrade to atleast a .308/40 combo.
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05-29-08, 06:44 PM #13
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I won't tell a soul. Originally Posted by maclean
Don't let that word get out.
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05-29-08, 08:47 PM #14
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I think there's a good case for the 6.5 Grendel and the 6.8 SPC. Still small and light enough to carry a lot of but big enough to do some serious damage.
That which does not kill me, better start fucking running.
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05-29-08, 09:21 PM #15
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If you drop back to the 55 grain M109 (I think that's the designation) it tumbels once it hits. Huge wound channel with 6 inch penatration. I carry these or the TAP in 20 rounders for anti personel and m855 for barrier. It's all about the right ammo.
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05-29-08, 09:30 PM #16
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I'll have you know that Maclean is both quick... and easy.
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05-29-08, 09:32 PM #17
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Originally Posted by countybear
I'll have you know that Maclean is both quick... and easy.
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05-29-08, 09:39 PM #18
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Thppppt to both of ya's!
On the topic of the OP, this is an argument that has been going on since Vietnam.
The US Military isn't likely to change chamberings any time soon, so that rules out the otherwise demonstrated success of the SPC and Grendel offerings.
The .223/556 round is perfectly mission capable - it is the BULLET itself that causes the issue here.
Since we are not fighting uniformed, declared combatants in the 'Stan or in Iraq when dealing with Iranian insurgents, we are also not bound to the perceived ban on expanding ammunition.
Such a finding has already been made by Army JAG in regards to hollow point sniper ammunition.
It would be very easy to move to a 60 to 77 grain hollowpoint projectile for the M-16 series of weapons. The 77 grain Mark 252 comes to mind.
Soldiers are always going to bitch.
In that article, they decry lack of stopping power and then go on to decry lack of penetration on barriers. Alas, physics has to catch up with us at some point.
Even the venerable 7.62 is going to fair better on one category than the other, depending on bullet design.I'm your huckleberry...
Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!
You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.
I was looking for a saint who was a devil of a lover,
but every girl I found was either one way or the other...
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