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  1. #1
    OfficerResource.com's Avatar
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    To Chamber A Round or NOT To Chamber A Round: That is the Question

    Click here to read the article on the homepage of officer resource

    Please feel free to leave honest opinions, both in this thread and on the front page

  2. #2
    Five-0's Avatar
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    That was an excellent read. We are reactive society. Some people, more than likely a lot of people, are going to have to die to facilitate change in the way we operate. If you are responsible for a high priority target a handgun should be a last resort weapon anyway. 7.62 should be minimum ammo for any sort of garrison duty. There is no worry for walking all over the world with a heavier weapon and ammo. Garrison troops and officers should have something that has a long reach, penetration power, and knock down power. When people see them they should be scared to deal with them.

    Meanwhile, fishing in Russia:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkzV5AIK8iM
    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." -- Frederic Bastiat

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    The opinions given in my signatures & threads DO NOT reflect the opinions, views, policies, and/or procedures of my employing agency. They are my personal opinions only, thereby releasing my agency of any liability, or involvement in anything posted under the username "Five-0" on Officerresource.com

  3. #3
    pgg's Avatar
    pgg
    pgg is offline Damnit, I'm hungry again.
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    That was a good read. I have run into old timer officers that have not carried a round in the chamber because thats "what we were taught in the military" When I first started my LE career I carried a 1911 "cocked and locked". I ended up having to go to a different sidearm because the old chief caved when citizen complaints came in about the cocked weapon.

  4. #4
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    That is a fantastic article I agree with each and every point he made. Especially since I'm in the same boat , can't carry a round in the chamber. Bottom line is it's a stupid policy and I hope I'm wrong but IMHO it's gonna get somebody hurt or god forbid killed. Then maybe they'll change their policy. FYI I'm not military but a Civilian police officer for the Army.
    James
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  5. #5
    Jks9199 is online now The Reason People Hate Cops & Causer of War
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    That's just scary to me!

    If you've got a gun and a badge on... You should have a round ready. No halfways; no "if you expect a threat, chamber"... The couple of seconds required to rack the slide and chamber a round might make the difference in living or dying.

    What can be done to get this policy changed?
    Voting against incumbents until we get a Congress that does its job.

    TASER: almost as good as alcohol for teaching white boys to dance

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  6. #6
    Captain America's Avatar
    Captain America is offline Reed and Malloy were my FTOs
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    Excellent article. We still haven't learned 5-0, see Beirut 1983, where approx. 280 Marines, naval personnel and other service members were killed when a homicide bomber drove a truck into the barracks where they were sleeping. The sentries on duty didn't even have loaded weapons to stop the threat as the driver passed them smiling. Another concern I have is the large number of law officers who have been called to duty as active members of the Armed Forces. Just think of the potential conflicts in training they have between the military and police work. I can see lives being loss because a LEO serving as a military sentry forgets he has a weapon that does not have a round chambered and out of reflex draws as he would as a peace officer and tries to deal with the threat with a useless weapon. The lag time that would result as he or she tries to figure out what's wrong could be costly.
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  7. #7
    Hannibal's Avatar
    Hannibal is offline Zombie Killin' Sheepdog
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jks9199 View Post
    That's just scary to me!

    If you've got a gun and a badge on... You should have a round ready. No halfways; no "if you expect a threat, chamber"... The couple of seconds required to rack the slide and chamber a round might make the difference in living or dying.

    What can be done to get this policy changed?

    +1

    "Stupid should hurt."

  8. #8
    AlDeputy's Avatar
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    Having been an MP carrying both the 1911 and he 9mm and being under orders not to chamber round and now being a civilian Deputy Sheriff, I can tell you that not chambering a round is not only dangrous but an example of the dumb things our military leadership does. I will tell you that I and most of the MP's I worked with chambered a round after going duty. We had a saying, "I would rather be tried by 12 then carried by 6" Maybe some day the Military Law Enforcement establishment will move into the 21st Century.
    But you're a deputy, you can't give me a ticket!

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  9. #9
    armsmaster270's Avatar
    armsmaster270 is offline Ret. Sac. P.D. - 270th M.P. Co., Now with D.H.S.
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    I also Was both civilian Police Officer and at the same time National Guard M.P.. We would always go to Camp Roberts or Camp San Luis Obispo to do garrision duty. I have carried both the 1911 and M9 I was not allowed to chamber a round either on the 45 we had to buy our ammo on the economy and bought silvertips we loaded 7 round per mag and most of us carried chambered on half cock so it didn't appear cocked and locked. With practice you can cock a 1911 like a single action Colt as fast as dropping the safety. Most of the M.P.'s were local L.E.'s and followed suit. That's how we worked it at Piper Tech in L.A. during the Olympics and on the streets during Rodney King Riots except during the riots we had cocked and locked M-16's.


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  10. #10
    JLK's Avatar
    JLK
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    i'v always been taught that a weapon without a round in it was a deadmans gun.
    when I landed in panama. we were told to not chamber a round. even had one idiot tell us to leave the chamber flags in.
    about 3 steps from the plane the chamber flag was in the pocket and 5.56 nato replaced it. screw them.


    "A strong man stands up for himself. A stronger man stands up for others."
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    on his wearing his sidearm. "Sheriff, I see you have your pistol. Are you
    expecting trouble?" "No Ma'am. If I were expecting trouble, I would have
    brought my rifle."
    (just stole this one hope you don't mind)


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  11. #11
    keith720's Avatar
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    My feelings are that if you are so worried that you may have an accidental discharge or that your gun may be taken from you, you probably shouldn't be carrying a gun in the first place. As cops, our use of force is reactive, and as such, it needs to be immediate.
    For the morning will come. Brightly will it shine on the brave and true, kindly upon all who suffer for the cause, glorious upon the tombs of heroes. Thus will shine the dawn.

    Winston Churchill

  12. #12
    MacLean's Avatar
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    Ah Frank, this old saw again...

    I can recall being corrected by a Marine about my safety being "off" on an M9.

    I can recall the Army guys being jealous my M9 had a round up the pipe and the safety off.

    No civilian police officer I know carries an empty chamber, and the great discussion about the military police will go on and on and on and on and on...
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


    I was looking for a saint who was a devil of a lover,
    but every girl I found was either one way or the other...



  13. #13
    213th's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maclean View Post
    Ah Frank, this old saw again...

    I can recall being corrected by a Marine about my safety being "off" on an M9.

    I can recall the Army guys being jealous my M9 had a round up the pipe and the safety off.

    No civilian police officer I know carries an empty chamber, and the great discussion about the military police will go on and on and on and on and on...
    Yeah, it's always fun to get the prior service army/marine types in. "You do what with your handguns?!"
    He who has the money, signs the cheques.
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    He who has the power, has the money.

  14. #14
    OffDuty's Avatar
    OffDuty is offline The Shotgun is Family.
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    The only thing I carry that isnt charged is the shotgun, and thats because people need to hear the snick snick when I rack it as I step from the car!
    There are only two kinds of real justice left: street and poetic...


    Canada, huh? Almost made it...

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  15. #15
    lewisipso's Avatar
    lewisipso is offline Injustice/Indifference/In God we trust
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    I had a CLOSE relative recently deployed with an unloaded weapon for sentry duty. My commander would have been told to stick it and I would have suffered my lumps. I decided a long time ago that the only person who would be allowed to tell me how to defend myself or anyone else is me.
    Do not war for peace. If you must war, war for justice. For without justice there is no peace. -me

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  16. #16
    MonsterMash's Avatar
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    There is a definate difference in millitary and law enforcement attitudes on having a loaded weapon. There was a incident shown on the news during Katrina that put a huge spotlight on the differences. If I could find it I'd show you but it went something like this:

    A truckload of officers wearing tactical gear and carrying M4's and MP5's were heading into town to do whatever they were doing. This was after the gunfire and gunfights had started getting bad. The commanding officer of the millitary personnel was standing on the side of the road and saw them. The conversation that took place from there was short and to the point.

    Millitary Guy: "Unload those weapons and put them on safe! This ain't Beruit!"

    Cop: "Fuck you!"

    Couldn't have said it better myself.
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  17. #17
    MacLean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 213th View Post
    Yeah, it's always fun to get the prior service army/marine types in. "You do what with your handguns?!"
    I carry it loaded with the safety off the way Pietro Beretta intended, you fricking grunt/jarhead/squid!

    I got tired of it after a while, and just ignored them.
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


    I was looking for a saint who was a devil of a lover,
    but every girl I found was either one way or the other...



  18. #18
    CT209's Avatar
    CT209 is offline Once..... Forever
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    Hey, I was in the Corps in the 70s. For a short time, the MPs on one base had their hammers "safety-wired" in the down position so the brass could tell if they chambered a round.
    "When a crime is committed, liberals blame society. Conservatives blame the criminal." -Debra Saunders

    Old Scottish Motto- "nemo me impune laccessit". It still holds true today.

  19. #19
    MacLean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CT209 View Post
    Hey, I was in the Corps in the 70s. For a short time, the MPs on one base had their hammers "safety-wired" in the down position so the brass could tell if they chambered a round.
    Holy crap, you're kidding... right?
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


    I was looking for a saint who was a devil of a lover,
    but every girl I found was either one way or the other...



 

 

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