Minimum Wage

[Caveman]

Well I read that they are raising it in Oregon...again. Here they raise it every year thanks to a 2002 ballot measure. Oregon I think has the highest minimum wage if not real close.

Now don't get me wrong I am not against people making a decent living, heck I like most of us started at minimum wage ($3.85 an hour) But I never expected to make a living flipping burgers or washing cars either.

Here is the catch 22 regarding this morons statements in the article below.

1) How many of Oregon's 143,000 minimum wage earners are under the age of 18 and also how many of those jobs are in the service industry???

2) Regarding the "rapidly rising cost of living facing Oregon workers." statement..
Heres my answer to that. STOP F'N RAISING THE MINIMUM WAGE 5.37 PERCENT EVERY YEAR ASSHOLE!!! That raises the cost of living.
Heck, most of us would love to get that kind of raise every year.

SALEM, Ore. (AP) _ Labor Commissioner Brad Avakian says Oregon's minimum wage will rise by 45 cents to $8.40 an hour beginning Jan. 1.
Avakian says Oregon's 143,000 minimum-wage earners make up 7.5 percent of the state work force.
The wage is indexed to the cost of living as measured by the August federal Consumer Price Index. The increase is 5.37 percent, reflecting what Avakian describes as the "rapidly rising cost of living facing Oregon workers."
Under the terms of a 2002 ballot measure, the state adjusts the minimum wage each September, with the new wage getting rounded to the nearest 5 cents.

[Vendetta]

I am lucky to get a 3.5% raise every year. When I worked for the state I remember some years that we got like a 6 cents on the hour raise. WTF!?!?!?!? I think it should all be in perspective.

I got my education, chose my career, and should be rewarded for staying with said career.

[Jenna]

I think there should be a minimum wage, and it should be high enough to ensure that someone who works 40 hours a week can afford health care, food, childcare, and housing in a safe neighborhood, and get significantly more income than someone subsisting on public assistance. It's a good way to encourage people at the bottom of the ladder to get jobs instead of relying on public assistance and/or criminal activities for subsistence. Many people (those with significant mental and/or physical disabilities, for instance) may never have the intellectual, physical, and/or psychological ability to ever get jobs that pay more than minimum wage, and they need to be able to survive like anyone else.

Minimum wage increases might cause some inflation, but not a lot, since they don't constitute a large proportion of the economy. And the money that minimum wage workers spend with their greater incomes can help stimulate the economy, pay more taxes, and reduce the need for the government to spend money on public assistance. Not to mention the benefits to society when low-skilled people have an incentive to spend their time and effort on legitimate jobs rather than become drug dealers, burglars, and prostitutes.

[Caveman]

I think there should be a minimum wage, and it should be high enough to ensure that someone who works 40 hours a week can afford housing, healthcare, food, and childcare.

^^^^^^
Socialism.

But I wont hold that against you

[Jenna]

^^^^^^
Socialism.

But I wont hold that against you

[Rhino]

Minimum wage hurts everyone. It hurts businesses, especially small ones, because it is forcing them to pay their employees a certain amount. It hurts employees because it removes competitive pricing.

I also think the raise in minimum wage this year and our currenty economic status as a country are no coincidence. The liberals are so quick to blame Bush, but most of these problems didn't start until we had a Democratic Congress.

[Xiphos]

I think there should be a minimum wage, and it should be high enough to ensure that someone who works 40 hours a week can afford health care, food, childcare, and housing in a safe neighborhood, and get significantly more income than someone subsisting on public assistance.

WHAT????? Most families in this country need two incomes for that kind of standard of living.

[Jenna]

WHAT????? Most families in this country need two incomes for that kind of standard of living.

And that's the problem.

A lot of families only have one parent and multiple children. Yes it's ideal if people never have children out of wedlock and married people with children all stay alive and happily married at least until their children grow up, but realistically that's not what happens a lot of the time. So wouldn't you prefer to have those single parents get legitimate jobs rather than depend on welfare and/or criminal activities to support themselves and their children?

[Xiphos]

The point of minimum wage is for teenagers working at movie theaters and busing tables to realize that minimum wage jobs suck and they're going to go out get real jobs.

[Xiphos]

Fine, let's say that the minimum wage for everyone is $20 dollars an hour so they can afford all those great benefits. The people and businesses that have to pay for that are going to have to raise their prices to cover it. A Blockbuster movie rental is going to cost $30. Everything else in society is going to go up. Daycare centers that have to pay that minimum wage to their employees will have to triple their prices making their services unaffordable to the lowest wage earners again. We'll just solve that by making minimum wage $30 an hour. This cycle will never end.

Minimum wage jobs are supposed to suck so that you'll go out and get a better paying job.

[Willowdared]

Minimum wage jobs are supposed to suck so that you'll go out and get a better paying job.

Except that there are plenty of small agencies that pay their officers minimum wage.

[mack]

I made decent money working in the FL Keys, but the cost of living was so high I couldn't afford to live there anymore as a single person. I owned my own home, but the taxes and the higher costs of groceries, gas, and basic necessities drove me out of there, I literally was going broke trying to survive on my own. Raising the minimum wage would just make prices go even higher, it doesn't solve the problem, just masks the problem for the short term, til prices reflect the cost to the employer. There should be a minimum wage but it should be a reasonable minimum wage, as the minimum goes up so does the wage of people who have specialized training in their vocation. The system needs to be stablized so there is no need to raise the minimum and people who earn minimum wage have a desire to better themselves.

[Rhino]

So wouldn't you prefer to have those single parents get legitimate jobs rather than depend on welfare and/or criminal activities to support themselves and their children?

Jenna, if those dumbasses out there put in half the effort into legitimate jobs that they put into perpetuating these crimes, they'd be moderately successful.

[pgg]

I think there should be a minimum wage, and it should be high enough to ensure that someone who works 40 hours a week can afford health care, food, childcare, and housing in a safe neighborhood, and get significantly more income than someone subsisting on public assistance. It's a good way to encourage people at the bottom of the ladder to get jobs instead of relying on public assistance and/or criminal activities for subsistence. Many people (those with significant mental and/or physical disabilities, for instance) may never have the intellectual, physical, and/or psychological ability to ever get jobs that pay more than minimum wage, and they need to be able to survive like anyone else.

Minimum wage increases might cause some inflation, but not a lot, since they don't constitute a large proportion of the economy. And the money that minimum wage workers spend with their greater incomes can help stimulate the economy, pay more taxes, and reduce the need for the government to spend money on public assistance. Not to mention the benefits to society when low-skilled people have an incentive to spend their time and effort on legitimate jobs rather than become drug dealers, burglars, and prostitutes.

There is a town here in No CA that made a "living wage" requirement. The town then wondered why businesses left and unemployment tripled in the city. The leaders and residents of the town are self described socialists.

[Jenna]

Jenna, if those dumbasses out there put in half the effort into legitimate jobs that they put into perpetuating these crimes, they'd be moderately successful.

My point exactly--if minimum wage jobs paid more, those dumbasses would have an incentive to put their effort toward those jobs rather than toward crime.

A higher minimum wage would also be an incentive to stay out of prison. Right now prison provides more comfortable material living conditions than a minimum wage job.

Minimum wage jobs are supposed to suck so that you'll go out and get a better paying job.

Even even without the low pay, working conditions for most minimum wage jobs are unpleasant enough to encourage minimum wage workers to get better jobs if they can. How many people here would trade their current job for a job as a burger flipper if burger flipping paid the same as their current job?

Fine, let's say that the minimum wage for everyone is $20 dollars an hour so they can afford all those great benefits. The people and businesses that have to pay for that are going to have to raise their prices to cover it. A Blockbuster movie rental is going to cost $30. Everything else in society is going to go up. Daycare centers that have to pay that minimum wage to their employees will have to triple their prices making their services unaffordable to the lowest wage earners again. We'll just solve that by making minimum wage $30 an hour. This cycle will never end.

It's true that minimum wage increases usually lead to wage increases for those whose pay grades are a bit higher than minimum wage as well, but I see that as a benefit for society. A lot of the most difficult and important professions--such as law enforcement--are just a few pay grades above minimum wage, and would be helped by pay increases. Most LEOs would also get wage increases when minimum wage increases. Those who have six-digit incomes from top-level jobs and/or interest, dividends, and capital gains from amassed wealth, however, wouldn't necessarily get income increases. Nor do they need income increases since their use of minimum wage services is a limited part of their expenditure and they have enough money to absorb the higher costs caused by minimum wage.

Minimum wage need not cause an infinite cycle of wage increases. At a certain point the wage increases will stop. Let's say the daycare worker gets $30 an hour for taking care of 3 kids and has to pay $10 an hour for having his/her own kid be one of the 3 kids taken care of by another daycare worker. That daycare worker still gets $20 an hour to spend on food, housing, healthcare, etc., so no more minimum wage increases are needed.

Minimum wage workers will also have incentives to have fewer children than those living on public assistance, since each additional child is going to cost more of their hard-earned money--the opposite of when they are depending on public assistance, which gives them more money for each additional child.

[Xiphos]

Except that there are plenty of small agencies that pay their officers minimum wage.

Take the training and experience and go somewhere else. One of the biggest mistakes people make is they refuse to move to areas of the country that provide better opportunity for them. If you can't live off your wage and you refuse to go somewhere else then you need a different job.

A higher minimum wage would also be an incentive to stay out of prison. Right now prison provides more comfortable material living conditions than a minimum wage job.

Raising the minimum wage raises the cost of living. If the minimum wage is $30 that standard of living will be identical to the standard at $4 minimum wage. Rather than increase the minimum wage and raise the cost of living we would be far better off stimulating the economy to provide better jobs that offer career paths on livable wages. The economy would skyrocket at a conservative estimate of 10% with major tax reform like the Fair Tax. That would provide more jobs and more livable wages than increasing the minimum wage, which only increases the cost of living.

Most LEOs would also get wage increases when minimum wage increases. Those who have six-digit incomes from top-level jobs and/or interest, dividends, and capital gains from amassed wealth, however, wouldn't necessarily get income increases. Nor do they need income increases since their use of minimum wage services is a limited part of their expenditure and they have enough money to absorb the higher costs caused by minimum wage.

What you are failing to see is that the cost of living will increase. My salary increase is useless if the cost of living goes up with it. When the supermarket has to pay teenagers who bag groceries and fetch carts the "livable wage" and benefits that progressives call for then the costs of the groceries increase for everyone. Soon that "livable wage" is no longer livable because everything is more expensive to pay for it. How about we stimulate the economy so that more grocery stores are built and there are more career paths to supervision and management? That will give more people more access to those better jobs.

[Jenna]

Take the training and experience and go somewhere else. One of the biggest mistakes people make is they refuse to move to areas of the country that provide better opportunity for them. If you can't live off your wage and you refuse to go somewhere else then you need a different job.

If everyone does that, then the town that pays LEOs minimum wage will only have unqualified and/or inexperienced LEOs. That's dangerous for the town. The town needs to put LEOs on a higher pay grade and/or increase its minimum wage to prevent that from happening.

What you are failing to see is that the cost of living will increase. My salary increase is useless if the cost of living goes up with it. When the supermarket has to pay teenagers who bag groceries and fetch carts the "livable wage" and benefits that progressives call for then the costs of the groceries increase for everyone. Soon that "livable wage" is no longer livable because everything is more expensive to pay for it. How about we stimulate the economy so that more grocery stores are built and there are more career paths to supervision and management? That will give more people more access to those better jobs.

Costs of living would go up, and wages would have to be further increased to keep up with them, but not infinitely--at a certain point they will level off so that the wage increases do translate to an increased standard of living even if costs of living are higher. The greater spending of those who got wage increases would stimulate the economy and create more demand for more grocery stores, and thus more managerial as well as minimum wage jobs.

[mack]

[quote=Jenna;385678]If everyone does that, then the town that pays LEOs minimum wage will only have unqualified and/or inexperienced LEOs. That's dangerous for the town. The town needs to put LEOs on a higher pay grade and/or increase its minimum wage to prevent that from happening.quote]


Great in theory, Jenna, but as most everyone on here will attest to Law Enforcement is one of the lowest paying jobs out there. Most officers don't do it because they will get rich. In fact, most officers have to work overtime just to pay bills which leads to overtired, overworked officers which makes reaction times slower.

[Rhino]

My point exactly--if minimum wage jobs paid more, those dumbasses would have an incentive to put their effort toward those jobs rather than toward crime.

No, you missed my point. If they put that energy into even a minimum wage job, they'd make more money. Just ask your "undocumented immigrants" that hang out in front of Home Depot at 6am every morning.

But these criminals don't want to work that long or get up that early.

If you only put 40 hours a week into a job, you deserve to be poor. Wealth and success are reserved for the hard-working people who are willing to earn it.

A higher minimum wage would also be an incentive to stay out of prison. Right now prison provides more comfortable material living conditions than a minimum wage job.

Really? If that were true, then the criminals would be coming to us, not running from us.

[Xiphos]

If everyone does that, then the town that pays LEOs minimum wage will only have unqualified and/or inexperienced LEOs. That's dangerous for the town. The town needs to put LEOs on a higher pay grade and/or increase its minimum wage to prevent that from happening.

I'm all for paying cops more but when you raise the minimum wage you raise the cost of living thereby making the new minimum wage useless again.

Costs of living would go up, and wages would have to be further increased to keep up with them, but not infinitely--at a certain point they will level off so that the wage increases do translate to an increased standard of living even if costs of living are higher. The greater spending of those who got wage increases would stimulate the economy and create more demand for more grocery stores, and thus more managerial as well as minimum wage jobs.

At what magical and arbitrary point will this happen? If you run a movie rental store and you have to pay your teenagers $7 an hour how many movies do you need to rent to make a profit? If you have to pay them $15 an hour how many more and at what rental price do you need now to make a profit? If you have to pay them $100 an hour how many movies at what costs do you need to make a profit? At $250 an hour? At $500 an hour? It's indefinite. If you have to pay your employees $500 an hour you'll have to rent your movies at $250 a rental.

The cost of living is not static. As the cost of doing business goes up (i.e. higher gas prices, higher taxes, higher wages) your goods and services will have to get more expensive to pay for your increased costs.

If you want more people to have better paying jobs stimulate the economy and create more better paying jobs. Increasing the minimum wage is simplistic and is only going to hurt businesses and therefore hurt consumers and therefore hurt workers.