Immigration 101 for Dummies.

**Big Sexy** · 10-28-08, 02:21 PM

Mind you, BIG is not an immigration attorney, nor does he claim to be an immigration expert. He has however, utilized and applied immigration law, both the administrative side and criminal side, for the last soon to be 14 years. If there are others on the board, who may answer these questions just as accurately, if not more accurately than BIG and BIG will gladly bow to their expertise.

BIG received a PM from an esteemed member, who posed a few immigration related questions to BIG. These questions were brought about due to the lawsuits concerning Senator Obama's citizenship. BIG figured he'd post the questions publicly, instead of PM, accompanied by the appropriate answers here for all of the OR public to see.

My grasp at u.s. citizenship is you are born here than you are a citizen.

Yes, unless you are the child of someone who is in possession of an "A" visa, which is an Ambassador. U.S. citizenship is obtained utilizing the law of "Jus Soli" (Right of Soil). The Constitution makes citizens of all persons born in the United States, provided they are subject to U.S. jurisdiction at the time of their birth - that is, they are not the children of foreign diplomats and like persons who, having diplomatic immunity, are not subject to U.S. jurisdiction while they are in the country for diplomatic purposes.

An illegal give birth here and that kid is a citizen and parent stays.

The child is a USC, (see above Jus Soli), but that doesn't automatically transfer into the parent gaining any status, which would allow them to remain here. You cannot deport a USC, but you can deport the parent/s.

Marry a citizen and stay in the country.

No. One would still have to apply for either an immigrant visa to enter the U.S., or an adjustment of status of whatever status they are, if already present in the U.S. Once again, marrying a USC doesn't authomatically bestow any special status on the non-USC. They DO NOT become USC's by virtue of marriage to a USC, that's only in the movies. They can become lawfully admitted permanenet residents, (LAPRs), but if married for under two years they'd be conditional LAPRs. If they fail to apply to have the conditions removed or commit a deportable offense, they will put into deportation proceedings, held by an Immigration Judge (IJ).

Come here through embassy or consulate and go through the motions and get citizenship.

No one obtains their citizenship through a U.S. Consulate or Embassy. Either a foreign born USC, think of military kids born outside the U.S., registers at the Consulate/Embassy or a foreign national applies for an immigrant or non-immigrant visa via the Consulate/Embassy.

A u.s. citizen gives birth lets say in mexico, then the kid wouldn't be a citizen of mexico?

That would depend on the laws of Mexico. The child would however derive citizenship via the USC parent/s and would be a USC. It is known as the law of "Jus Sanginues" (Right of Blood) by which nationality or citizenship is not determined by place of birth, but by having an ancestor who is a national or citizen of the state.

The formality of going to a consulate or embassy doesn't have to be reached to have the kid be a us citizen?

Not to BIGs understanding. If a child derives citizenship, then the child derives it. From what BIG has been taught, the Consulates/Embassy or a none factor. if one can prove they are the child of a USC and that USC acknowledges that child as theirs, then the child would derive citizenship.

The argument against obama is his school records show he's a citizen of indonesia, wouldn't he have to go through the embassy or consulate or immigration when he gets back to the u.s. and get u.s. citizenship?

BIG doesn't know Indonesia's laws concerning citizenship. Whether they recognize dual citizenship, as does Canada, Ireland, Israel and Great Britain, to name a few, but the U.S. does not. Regardless, whether Indonesia does or doesn't, did or didn't, it's irrelevant to whether he would derive citizenship from his USC parent, as far as U.S. immigration law is concerned.

Born in hawaii doesn't add up according to Berg and it is true that one of obama's parents is a u.s. citizen but he doesn't want to reveal the actual certificate.

If he was born in Hawaii, then he's a USC. If he wasn't, he still derived U.S. citizenship. In either scenario, he'd be a USC. Honestly, the only controversies BIG has ever heard about Senator McCain not being a USC, due to his being born in the Panama Canal Zone or Senator Obama not being a USC is here on the forums. have never heard any "controversy" mentioned by any of the other media outlets. Senator McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone when it was a U.S. territory, which would make him a U.S. National but not a US citizen. Think America Samoa. They're U.S. Nationals, but not U.S. citizens, hence unable to vote or run for the presidency.

But since both of Senator McCains parents are/were USC's he derived it, regardless of what territory he was born. be it Panama, China or Indonesia.

Help me understand u.s. citizenship rules if I'm off.

In a nutshell, you've been given the simplified version of immigration law. Hopefully things are now as clear as mud.

**dadyswat** · 10-28-08, 02:41 PM

There are a couple of law suites over this and one was just thrown out but I'm not sure why. The Govenor of Hawaii has sealed records and won't release them unless Obama requests them which he won't and the media ignors it.

**Twan007** · 10-28-08, 03:24 PM

thanks big...

i think i was better off not knowing all of that, because now i'm more confused than before =/

clear as mud is about right

**Ryan** · 10-28-08, 03:38 PM

RYAN appreciates the information and the time it took you to post that. Very informative

**Jenna** · 10-28-08, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by Ryan

RYAN appreciates the information and the time it took you to post that. Very informative

The third person talk is spreading!

Thanks for the clarification, Big Sexy. Too bad it might disappoint all those who hope to get both Obama and McCain disqualified on a technicality at the last minute! Although that would be amusing....

**Buttercup** · 10-28-08, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by Jenna

The third person talk is spreading!

Perhaps, but there is only one Big.

**Xiphos** · 10-28-08, 04:27 PM

My parents are citizens and were in Japan working and living when I was born. My birth certificate was issued by the State Department. I am not a dual citizen with Japan. US only.

**countybear** · 10-28-08, 06:22 PM

I don't see where the turmoil really is, in that Obama's mother was a citizen of the US, regardless of who his father was, he still inherits that birthright. So, why has he refused to allow a release of that original birth certificate? What could we be missing here?

**adroitcuffs** · 10-28-08, 08:46 PM

Originally Posted by countybear

I don't see where the turmoil really is, in that Obama's mother was a citizen of the US, regardless of who his father was, he still inherits that birthright. So, why has he refused to allow a release of that original birth certificate? What could we be missing here?

Curiouser and curiouser....

**Jenna** · 10-28-08, 08:54 PM

Originally Posted by countybear

I don't see where the turmoil really is, in that Obama's mother was a citizen of the US, regardless of who his father was, he still inherits that birthright. So, why has he refused to allow a release of that original birth certificate? What could we be missing here?

Obama was born on another planet!

YouTube - Obama: Born On Krypton