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12-04-10, 09:51 PM #1
Got all of our new optics issued on our patrol rifles - finally!
It took almost a year from submitting the budget request to getting the last group through the class, but all of our Colt AR15A3 patrol rifles (80 of them) now wear Aimpoint C3 optics in Larue mounts with Magpul BUIS.
This was a big undertaking for our handful of firearms instructors, since no OT was authorized for the training, and the cost of the entire system came out of our annual firearms training/ammo budget. Since no OT was authorized for the mandatory training, we had to take a handfull of people out the range at a time and put them through the class while on shift. Flexibility was the name of the game. It took two months to get everyone done, and I trained our last group last night during the shift overlap between evenings and nights. Oh yeah - and since our training office was dismantled and put back into patrol a due to budget cuts and layoffs, this was all done by officers working their shift - both students and trainers.
I wrote the proposal for this. Several people wanted EOtechs, but after reading on several different forums and from a couple of guys at school about all the woes and broken sights (mainly after L3 took over the company), I didn't think they were durable enough for general patrol use. I went with Aimpoint for their legendary reliability, and picked the C3 since it had all of the features of the M3, but basically wasn't waterproof as deep. We don't dive much (ever), so I didn't see it as an issue. With the limited budget we had, it gave us everything we needed for the right price. The M3, M4 and Microdot were just out of our price range. We got a great deal ordering as many C3s as we did.
The Larue mount was a no-brainer - they are very well established for both their durability and their excellent ability to return to zero. Although we are obviously not recommending they take the optic off, it's a great feature to have (nice to have something and not need it vs need it and not have it). Mark cut us a great deal on the mounts also - he really did us right, and I was glad he did. Without his willingness to help our department out, we would have been stuck with a lesser mount. When our firearms coordinator called, he said 'we have x to spend on y number of mounts. is there any way you can do that?' No hesitation - done deal. We ordered the optics, mounts and BUIS all on the same day. The Larue mounts came in before anything else. My patrol car now wears a bumper sticker that says "God Bless our troops - especially our snipers" . . . . and will until someone tells me to take it off (yeah - it's a pool car, too).
During the transition for our tac team - some insisted on keeping their EOs.
The old and the new - that's an old Comp M on the commando, maybe 10 years old. Still works, but battery life sucks comparatively. Also, the GG&G mount - great for its time, is much heavier and bulkier - not to mention much more expensive, even now.
During the training for my shift and the tac team, I dropped the rifle onto the mounted optic several times, took the optic off with the QD mount, and would throw it across the range past the person I had go down there to "catch" it (deliberately). I'd have someone throw it back to me (and miss of course), letting it go bouncing across the gravel and dirt. I'd pick it up, mount it, and shoot to the same POA/POI at the 50 (where we zero) every time I did it. I think it made believers out of everyone who went to the class, and it did surprisingly little damage to the finish of the sight.
We did allow people who had personally owned EOtechs to keep them if they wanted. None of them wanted to let me repeat the demo with their sight. A couple decided to switch to the aimpoint after the demo. Frankly, I don't blame them, since if it were my gear and not the PD's I likely wouldn't be so quick to do this demo.
We recommend that users just leave the sight on all the time, and show them how to check their zero using their BUIS. Everyone seemed to shoot well during all of the drills, and were pleased at how easy it was to shoot when we turned all the range lights off and had them shoot in no light w/ their weapons mounted lights only.
Good shooters still shot well, and some iffy shooters really seemed to turn the corner. Of course, there are those that suck no matter how much you try - but nobody failed to pass the Q course, and scores overall were noticeably higher than usual. No requals had to be fired, which is rare.
One of our medics during transition training. This little bastard can shoot, too.
Support side shooting was much better, as the aiming process is much simplified. I'm going to start pushing this more in the future for my crew (I try to do some sort of FA training during overlap once per month in addition to the department training).
I'm thrilled that the admin allowed us to do buy these setups and get us into this century capability-wise. I think this optic is going to help our men and women shoot much more proficiently in awkward positions, under higher time stress, and in any light conditions. In other words, I think this could be the difference in the outcome of armed engagements, and every single officer at my department now has the same equipment available to them.
So, basically, even though it was a heck of a project to undertake, I'm very glad it's done and fielded. Now I'm just going to cross my fingers we don't need to use them anytime soon.Idiot
12-04-10, 10:05 PM #2
Congratulations! Hope you only have to use them during practice.
12-04-10, 11:06 PM #3
Nice work!I'm your huckleberry...
Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!
You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.
I was looking for a saint who was a devil of a lover,
but every girl I found was either one way or the other...
12-05-10, 04:21 PM #4
Very nice indeed.Do not war for peace. If you must war, war for justice. For without justice there is no peace. -me
We are who we choose to be.
R.I.P. Arielle. 08/20/2010-09/16/2012
12-05-10, 07:01 PM #5
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and like it, never really care for anything else.
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Disclaimer: The opinions given in my signatures DO NOT reflect the opinions, views, policies, and/or procedures of my employing agency. They are MY PERSONAL OPINIONS and I accept sole responsibility as such.
12-11-10, 03:13 AM #6
We just got EOTechs for all of our rifles... and finally lights."When a crime is committed, liberals blame society. Conservatives blame the criminal." -Debra Saunders
Old Scottish Motto- "nemo me impune laccessit". It still holds true today.
12-11-10, 03:15 AM #7
We just got EOTechs for all of our rifles... and finally lights.
Funny, the Chief wasn't going to do it because it'd cost too much. I'll show him the "sights for 80 rifles" purchase. We have 5. Kind of put the price for ours into perspective."When a crime is committed, liberals blame society. Conservatives blame the criminal." -Debra Saunders
Old Scottish Motto- "nemo me impune laccessit". It still holds true today.
12-11-10, 04:29 AM #8Officer First ClassVerified LEO
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Must be nice!
We have shotguns. They are supposed to be loaded, and sometimes they even work. That's giving them a bit too much credit actually. In the ghetto....
I'm jealous by the way, I really do wish I worked for an agency that had the money, administration, and priorities to do anything remotely similar to this. They are giving us an additional $150 to spend on equipment and uniforms this year. Which means $350 total for the year, which will cover about 1/3 of what it costs to actually be prepared for work. Must not complain, must be glad to have a job....
12-11-10, 09:31 PM #9
Dang, dude. Are you given the option of carrying personal rifles?Idiot
12-11-10, 10:12 PM #10
They ended up getting military surplus AR's (converted them to the M4 configuration), but the only people they are issued to are the road deputies.
I tried to get at least a couple issued to my airport security section, but that meant that all of my deputies would have to go through the rifle course (and qualify with them regularly), so naturally that didn't fly.
I have my own Bushy M4, but I can't even have it in my department car since the rifle is personally owned.
Amazing thing is that our duty sidearms are all personally owned, but we can't have the rifles.
Don't understand the reasoning for one and not the other, but oh well, just hope I never need it.
.The Swamp Mafia -"Heaven doesn't want us,and Hell's afraid we'll take over!!".
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