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Thread: New Cruisers

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    McCrackhd's Avatar
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    New Cruisers

    Seeing as how the CV will be discontinued this or next year, there has been a lot of discussion as to what car will be chosen as our new cruiser. I spoke with our fleet coordinator and he said that we will probably go to the new Caprice. I was just wondering if anyone knew what thier agency planned to change to. And to that effect, has anyone's agency decided to go wtih the Carbon? Our FC really liked it, but with no dealership to send it to when things break, it would have to be sent to Atlanta to be fixed which means that we wouldn't get it back for a few months.

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    How big is your agency Crackhd?

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    No new news here. If a CV can found anywhere we will have the poorest performing vehicle until they no longer exist.
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    There have been a ton of rumors floating around our office about what we are going to next. We have been getting quite a few F150's and Expeditions lately. Guys that have the Expeditions love them and I have a good feeling we will be getting more of them once the Vic's are done. A few guys absolutely do not want an suv/truck, those guys will probably get a Charger or the new Ford (if they get what they want).

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    We're going to be in a tough spot with the CV's going by the wayside.

    Our Chief has been a longtime Ford and CV fan. Years ago we learned the hard way that you just don't want a Fwd V6, so this new Interceptor with "available AWD and Ecoboost" (available = more money, what agency is going to do that?) doesn't look good. He's not a fan of the Charger due to the blindspots, and I'm pretty sure Chevy may be a four letter word in his book. He's a skeptic when it comes to Carbon's setup (honestly, I'm starting to lean that way myself, even after seeing one and talking with Mr. Santana Li and Mr. Stephens personally).

    Rumor has it he's found a dealer with an overstock of 2010 Cv's for our new orders, so who knows.
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    I have one comment. Tahoe.

    'nuff said.

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    Well I've been told my agency will get the new Fords, mainly due to a lack of vision and willingness to change.


    So I've been running around the office shouting "Caprice!!" to anyone who will listen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by countybear View Post
    I have one comment. Tahoe.

    'nuff said.
    My brother has one as a personal vehicle and I was pretty impressed with the stability and traction it offers.
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    I have to agree with ya CB - I've seen a few of the SO's decked out, and man those things can haul some equipment, and still out perform most of what we drive on the street...

    I thought Carbon took better care of the agency than that - guess smoke and mirrors sells, and even if you're trying to get your product out you still gotta fluff yourself up some =/
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    FWIW, the front wheel and all wheel drive systems do not suffer from the weaknesses of times past.

    I still like the new Caprice.
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    Is the Carbon Motors car actually in production? I thought that that they hadn't reached that stage yet... Honestly, it's a great idea, but they've got an uphill sell past "standard" fleet vehicles like Fords & Chevys.

    The new Ford Interceptor is getting some good reviews in the various magazines -- but it's also not in production yet. The tarted up demos/concept cars are great -- but what's really gonna hit the street, and for how much?

    I've heard that my agency will probably be going with the Caprice; we've got a few Impalas and just haven't been wowed by them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jks9199 View Post
    we've got a few Impalas and just haven't been wowed by them.
    kinda hard to get "wowed" by a grocery getter that overheats even in the winter time =/

    something about popping my hood when it sits still for an hour to "let the engine cool off" doesn't really make me think that thing was "made for police work" if ya get my drift...

    but like I've said a thousand times - I'm just a street cop... what do I know =/

    meh, the rest of my comments I'll leave alone - since we all up in the public side and schtuff...
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jks9199 View Post
    Is the Carbon Motors car actually in production? I thought that that they hadn't reached that stage yet... Honestly, it's a great idea, but they've got an uphill sell past "standard" fleet vehicles like Fords & Chevys.

    The new Ford Interceptor is getting some good reviews in the various magazines -- but it's also not in production yet. The tarted up demos/concept cars are great -- but what's really gonna hit the street, and for how much?

    I've heard that my agency will probably be going with the Caprice; we've got a few Impalas and just haven't been wowed by them.
    No, thier expectations are to be producing cars for the 2012 model year. I love the concept, and they seem to have their bases covered, but I'm not sure it's really going to take off initially.

    The main problem I see with this is the initial cost of a car. They don't even have a projected cost yet, and I hate to be part of a rumor mill, but I've heard 35-45k ballpark. they justify this because the car comes complete, turnkey, just add pilot. The purchasing procedure sounds much like that of the Fire Service. Your agency specs the vehicle and tells Carbon what radio frequencies and MDC software get installed in the onboard computer, what graphics scheme to use, etc.

    That's a great idea, but how many agencies, especially smaller ones re-use a most or all of the equipment in a car?

    When the car needs repair, it gets sent to a regional service center unless your agency is large enough and orders enough cars to have your mechanics trained by Carbon, making your garage a service center, and your mechanics qualified to work on the cars.

    Concept is fantastic, and I hope it thrives, but I forsee too many administrators passing on it because of the initial cost and service options compared to what's already on the market.
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  14. #14
    213th's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pudge View Post
    That's a great idea, but how many agencies, especially smaller ones re-use a most or all of the equipment in a car?
    I think you have a really important point here. From what my brother says, Anchorage (a larger dept) even recycles alot of lights and stuff. And from a budget standpoint, why not? Radios, lightbars, computers, it adds up, so why buy a complete set for every new car?
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    I've heard we're going with the Interceptors since our Fleet Manager is also a "Ford Man."

    @Mac, when you're referring to the problems of FWD in the past being rectified, are you talking about motor mounts being broken from curb-hopping, etc?

    That's my real worry with the Interceptor. There hasn't been a FWD patrol car yet IMO that can stand up to the rigors of urban or rural police work like a RWD car can. Sure, they survive for a while, but I think you'd be safe to say they require more maintenence. Never mind the motor performance. To me, it needs to be able take some serious abuse. Cars already have a lot of weight centered above their front wheels by virtue of their front engine design. When you couple that with the fact that you're now placing that weight over your drive wheels, that comes with problems. When you again couple those facts with the reality that you're taking your front wheels (the ones that take the most physical abuse during patrol driving conditions, i.e. curb hopping with braking downforce applied, etc) and are mechanically connecting them to your drive system via transmission gears , I foresee a lot of issues that can dead-line your cars with costly transmission and engine repairs. I don't even want to get into the damage that PIT has the potential to cause!

    Let's not forget that real performance driving is a RWD ball game. Forget about all that Tokyo Drift import shit. (Insert Asian jokes here ) Sure, there are a lot of cool tricks you can make a FWD car do, but none of them are really relevant to police work, and let's be honest...most of us aren't stunt drivers. We are, however, professional drivers in that we have specialized training in it and we do it for the majority of our day. Whether we realize it or not, we perform maneuvers that fall into the "performance" category of driving everyday. It seems second nature now, but when I think about what I can make a cop car do now vs. when I first started, I get a bit of a hard-on. Seriously...the majority of us are put into converted granny grocery-boxes, with nothing more really than an oil coolant upgrade, a stiffer suspension, and some nice tires, and can make them do some incredible stuff that would make the average member of the public poop themselves or wreck out. True, the CVPI takes a lot of user input to do those things, but we do it.

    My point is that we can do those things due to our training and everyday experience in performing those maneuvers in the real world with real cars and pedestrians. Driving a RWD is a whole other ballgame than driving a FWD. I switch every day between my RWD patrol car and my FWD personal car. My personal car is no slouch, but I can honestly outperform it on the track with my cop car. Drop a PD into a fleet of FWD vehicles, and I guarantee you that you will see those skill sets disappear without a LOT of additional training. You won't even be starting fresh...you will have to overcome many lessons ingrained in a cop's mind about RWD dynamics. Some techniques are even downright opposite between the two systems. Not a big deal if you're a FWD department already, but a serious training issue if you're all RWD like my PD's patrol division.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 121Traffic View Post
    I've heard we're going with the Interceptors since our Fleet Manager is also a "Ford Man."

    @Mac, when you're referring to the problems of FWD in the past being rectified, are you talking about motor mounts being broken from curb-hopping, etc?

    That's my real worry with the Interceptor. There hasn't been a FWD patrol car yet IMO that can stand up to the rigors of urban or rural police work like a RWD car can. Sure, they survive for a while, but I think you'd be safe to say they require more maintenence. Never mind the motor performance. To me, it needs to be able take some serious abuse. Cars already have a lot of weight centered above their front wheels by virtue of their front engine design. When you couple that with the fact that you're now placing that weight over your drive wheels, that comes with problems. When you again couple those facts with the reality that you're taking your front wheels (the ones that take the most physical abuse during patrol driving conditions, i.e. curb hopping with braking downforce applied, etc) and are mechanically connecting them to your drive system via transmission gears , I foresee a lot of issues that can dead-line your cars with costly transmission and engine repairs. I don't even want to get into the damage that PIT has the potential to cause!

    Let's not forget that real performance driving is a RWD ball game. Forget about all that Tokyo Drift import shit. (Insert Asian jokes here ) Sure, there are a lot of cool tricks you can make a FWD car do, but none of them are really relevant to police work, and let's be honest...most of us aren't stunt drivers. We are, however, professional drivers in that we have specialized training in it and we do it for the majority of our day. Whether we realize it or not, we perform maneuvers that fall into the "performance" category of driving everyday. It seems second nature now, but when I think about what I can make a cop car do now vs. when I first started, I get a bit of a hard-on. Seriously...the majority of us are put into converted granny grocery-boxes, with nothing more really than an oil coolant upgrade, a stiffer suspension, and some nice tires, and can make them do some incredible stuff that would make the average member of the public poop themselves or wreck out. True, the CVPI takes a lot of user input to do those things, but we do it.

    My point is that we can do those things due to our training and everyday experience in performing those maneuvers in the real world with real cars and pedestrians. Driving a RWD is a whole other ballgame than driving a FWD. I switch every day between my RWD patrol car and my FWD personal car. My personal car is no slouch, but I can honestly outperform it on the track with my cop car. Drop a PD into a fleet of FWD vehicles, and I guarantee you that you will see those skill sets disappear without a LOT of additional training. You won't even be starting fresh...you will have to overcome many lessons ingrained in a cop's mind about RWD dynamics. Some techniques are even downright opposite between the two systems. Not a big deal if you're a FWD department already, but a serious training issue if you're all RWD like my PD's patrol division.
    Out of curiosity, and I know the AWD option will for most depts be cost prohibitive, but how do you think AWD would affect performance?
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  17. #17
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    The AWD option may perform better but it is an option. If I were a betting man I'd say the lower horses and FWD (standard equipment) will be the deal for cost.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 121Traffic View Post
    @Mac, when you're referring to the problems of FWD in the past being rectified, are you talking about motor mounts being broken from curb-hopping, etc?
    That, and torque thrust.

    You should push one of the AWD cars hard and see what you think. It is a game changer if they can keep it working.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 213th View Post
    I think you have a really important point here. From what my brother says, Anchorage (a larger dept) even recycles alot of lights and stuff. And from a budget standpoint, why not? Radios, lightbars, computers, it adds up, so why buy a complete set for every new car?

    I brought this up to Mr. Santana-Li and Mr. Stephens at the event I attended. They contend that the usable life cycle of the car will be equal to or longer than what agencies would generally keep the lights and electronics that we recycle now.

    It was a good point, but I just don't know about the initial cost. I came back from the unveiling, and crunched numbers to explain to my Chief. Factoring in our usage a Carbon car would last 12-14 years as opposed to 8 now with a Crown Vic. BUT...the Chief and I had a candid talk about them when he heard I went and was instantly turned off when I told him what the initial cost estimate and service arrangements were, even with the numbers presented to him.
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  20. #20
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    The reason the fire service can spec out all new vehicles is because they're vehicles last them 20, even 30 years. And that's because they are CONSTANTLY serviced (at least the career departments). The fire department in the city I work has truck checks daily, and vehicle maintenance weekly, or as needed. Of course volunteer departments don't service their trucks as often, but I imagine most do better with their trucks than most departments do with their squad cars.

    The last time my squad got "checked over?" Last month when it got it's oil changed. And by "checked over" I mean it got it's oil changed.
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