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  1. #1
    Five-0's Avatar
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    Justice and Revenge

    This topic got me to thinking after reading about this story:

    Blinded woman to put acid in attacker's eyes - World news - Mideast/N. Africa - msnbc.com

    I think that revenge can sometimes be the same as justice, but it often is not due to emotions and other personal demons. However, you then start getting into the Cruel and Unusual punishment arena. That is what starts my thoughts to wondering along these lines. I've always been puzzled by people that cite Cruel and Unusual. The conjunction "and" seems to lose its meaning. I don't find it at all unusual to punish an offender in the same manner that they punished their victim. The offenders methods are always cruel, but to do the same to them as they did to their victim makes it more usual to me. That is the very meaning of deterrent in my opinion.

    I ask this because more than once I've had to use force on someone to get them into custody only to later have to carry on a conversation with them to complete paperwork, get them treatment, or to transport them. Taking the fight out of someone is not a very personal interaction to me like it was before I got into law enforcement. My satisfaction comes from bringing them to justice. Now with cameras and other recording devices, this means bringing their true nature to light for the world to see.

    I posted this on the public side to get the most varied perspectives as possible. Then again, this might be proof I need more down time. Off days have been few and far between and I've been thinking about work way to much lately.
    Also see here: http://www.seatstaysup.com/forums/sh...d=1#post427177

    Trying to delve deeper than the initial thoughts that always come to mind in reference to vengeance and punishment.

    Meanwhile, fishing in Russia:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkzV5AIK8iM
    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." -- Frederic Bastiat

    "Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter." Ernest Hemingway

    The opinions given in my signatures & threads DO NOT reflect the opinions, views, policies, and/or procedures of my employing agency. They are my personal opinions only, thereby releasing my agency of any liability, or involvement in anything posted under the username "Five-0" on Officerresource.com

  2. #2
    Jenna's Avatar
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    Gandhi was said to have said that an eye for an eye ends in making everybody blind. Any punishment used on guilty people is also likely to be used on innocent people, given that no system of determining guilt and innocence is foolproof. Penalties that prevent an offender from re-offending and/or serve as a deterrent to others may be necessary, but revenge for its own sake is unlikely to lead to anything good.

  3. #3
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    Having a punishment in place for crime is enough of a deterrent for most people. But for those who will not be stopped by the threat of whatever that punishment might be, then there needs to be a sentence handed out to get rid of the threat and put an end to innocent people's suffering. That to me seems like justice.

    Having said that though, there are some people who I'd like to see die a thousand times over for their crimes.
    http://www.odmp.org/officer/16551-de...l-eron-shannon

    Police Officers put themselves at risk for strangers every day. Some do not make it home to their families. Next time you think of saying something negative about the police, remember...YOU are one of the strangers.

  4. #4
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    Even with the infallibility of the Iranian justice system being beyond question, (even if this case is open and shut, when did we start believing Iranian government officials) why were they necessary to carry out this sentence? Why not let blood feuds be handled between tribes, between families?

    The whole point of state justice, as I got from my civics, was to mete justice with a blind eye. Certainly no pun intended for this situation. It is the very dispassionate nature of the system from which it makes claim to authority. Its nature is to bring and end to low laws, not enable them. To punish the guilty without favor to their station. (which I hope this IMH head finds to be true in Rikers Island) To protect the innocent. And to punish in an honorable way which ceases harm to those involved and community once the guilty has paid.

    Already the taxpayers of Spain have been punished as she has enjoyed their health care system. She doesn't want the "blood money"? Noble words as she spends freely from the pockets of others - yet she wants justice from an earlier time. I don't blame the victim for thinking this way - how else would any of us think in her place? How easy it is to want the suffering of the victims to land squarely on the evildoer. Eye for an eye, rape for a rape, cut the hand off a thief. These are the confused fantasy justice resolutions of teens we've all had, and laws were based on no more than this in a time before reasonable men lived to adulthood. These haven't been recognized as law since a time when teens were heads of the tribes. So it is with apologies I must say sorry to this lady; you were cute and this asshole ruined your life, these things are true and so too I believe is this : your justified anger doesn't get to rewrite long argued laws others have spent centuries working on to find the best justice. Absence of perfect law doesn't excuse tribal law being employed in its stead.

    Except, that is, in Tehran.

  5. #5
    Five-0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odd View Post
    Except, that is, in Tehran.
    How about in say Abbottabad, Pakistan? Is the victim in this story dispensing justice?

    http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/loc...,3070975.story

    Meanwhile, fishing in Russia:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkzV5AIK8iM
    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." -- Frederic Bastiat

    "Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter." Ernest Hemingway

    The opinions given in my signatures & threads DO NOT reflect the opinions, views, policies, and/or procedures of my employing agency. They are my personal opinions only, thereby releasing my agency of any liability, or involvement in anything posted under the username "Five-0" on Officerresource.com

  6. #6
    McCrackhd's Avatar
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    I am one that feels that if you steal, you should lose a hand. Noone would ever steal more than twice! If you murder someone in heinous fashion, you should die in the same fashion. I.e.: If you stab someone to death, you are stabbed to death, same for drowning. If you rape or molest a child, you are to be castrated and never let out of prison. We should bring back firing squads and hangings. Gladiator games would be appropriate for some. Floggings would also be good in some instances.


    To be fair, I have had these thoughts for many years, not only since becoming a police officer.
    YOUR ATTENTION, DO I F@#%ING HAVE IT?


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  7. #7
    Odd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Five-0 View Post
    How about in say Abbottabad, Pakistan? Is the victim in this story dispensing justice?

    Man beats up carjacker: Police: Victim beats up would-be carjacker, drives away - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com
    Abbotabad : Operation was handled with the utmost professionalism.

    Carjacking case : Funny victim selection fail. Self defense is the right of any individual, justice was started right there and there's no revenge involved. Now the intended carjacker pays society for his actions. Revenge is lacking unless he tries to start that cycle, and justice will be further served if he gets his ass pounded into the pavement again.

 

 

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