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  1. #1
    countybear's Avatar
    countybear is offline BDRT - Baby Daddy Removal Team
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    Call me a dinosaur...

    Lately I've been nostalgic. I remember just how perfect a medium frame revolver fit my hand. I've had damned good reason for these feelings though; I've been vividly reminded of it by recently wrapping my greedy, powder-stained fingers around a pair of Pachmayrs mounted on a Smith and Wesson 4" model 66. It's not new, but it is new to me. It's not perfect, but it sure as hell feels like it. I'll call it "close enough" to both new and perfect for my taste. I'm very pleased, and that's a monumental understatement.

    I procured the weapon when I saw it impulsively, (like a housewife who can't help but buying a National Enquirer), remembering how my old departmentally-issued Smith 66 felt when I took it out of the box the first time many years ago. The 686 that eventually replaced it was nice, but the 66 was truly special because it was my first 'issued' weapon. It was the ultimate entrustment in my youth-fogged mind. "They gave me this as a tool of my trade... that means they have faith in my ability to use it judiciously, decisively, wisely, and competently."

    To say that I was competent with it is an understatement. I was damned good with it. I loved the feel of it, I believed in the power of it, and I worshipped the reliability of it. I could eject cylinders, retrieve, index, and drop in rounds from a comp II speedloader, and go back to battery in one fluid motion. The weapon was simple, sleek, shiny, and stayed spotlessly clean because I doted over it so. It wasn't mine, but it was entrusted to me, which to me meant more than mere ownership.

    As I continued basking in my satisfaction over this 'new' weapon, I glanced over at my duty rig. I began comtemplating the current "standard issue". I shoot tupperware. Ok... its black and holds half a box of ammo, but its still tupperware to me. It isn't as accurate, it doesn't feel as good in my hand, doesn't bark as loud, and it doesn't pack nearly the same punch, but hey... it goes "bang" pretty consistently. Is it really progress though? Is it safer? Plain and simple... do I really trust the damned thing like I did that Smith? No way; not even close.

    The truth is, although through the late side of the eighties and the early nineties when departments started really going in for semi-autos and parting company with the wheelguns, there were those of us who really didn't feel all that outgunned on the street with a revolver on our side. Of course, we alsodidn't listen to the public grumbling about cops toting something with the suffix "magnum" behind its caliber designation. There were those of us who really thought the only thing we were lacking was a department administration with enough gumption to ignore the silly outcry over the cops being "over-gunned" and getting called a bunch of "Dirty Harry's" because we believed in a real "purpose-driven" law enforcement caliber, like the .41 magnum. The .41 mag had enough cross-sectional density to make it the happy medium between the .44's and the .357, but you add a "4" followed by a "magnum" to a departmentally-approved firearm and you got 500 scantily clad flowerchildren having a love-in and singing the best of Iron Butterfly in the lobby of City Hall. "Outgunned" really meant to us that we don't have a rifle in the trunk, fellas. It didn't mean that I felt like my trusty .357 wasn't enough to delay a badguy long enough for me to get to that trunk.

    Jeff Cooper touted the 1911 for law enforcement use, and although I surely wouldn't have minded that transition given adequate re-training, I was damned-well satisfied with a .357 (carrying .357 rounds in it, not .38's). Fast is good, magazine capacity is good, but accurate is decisive, and hell, I used to carry 30 rounds of .357 ammo on my old rig. Is fifteen more really going to make that huge a difference on the average day?

    Instead though, we plumbed the abyss of the semi-auto craze with hi-cap 9mm's until Remsberg showed us some tweaker took a box of them in his carcass and spit them back out in Riverside, California. Subsequently, we landed 10's and watched them fracture frames under the pressure. Now, we have just about all fallen for the tupperware .40's. I'll give them that as semi's go, its a fairly reliable, safe, and accurate firearm. It beats the hell out of what we've had shoved down our throats in the past.

    At one time, most departments allowed officers to carry their choice of weapon within a given set of parameters. Now, most departments that I am familiar with issue and mandate a specific make and model of sidearm, especially for uniform patrol carry. There are good points and bad points to both paths in my opinion. I have to say though that the paramount consideration for any department must be that its officers are familiar enough to be competent and confident with the firearm they carry, and taking it a step further, they should also be comfortable with it. The comfort aspect is all about personal preference. If I am going to involuntarily react in the manner that I have trained and am practiced, then let me do so with what I am best with. It's my ass on the line, after all. Without opening up a can of worms about adequate firearm training, let me say that those of us who remember scoring consistent 300's on a black and white B-29 with a revolver should have the discretion of continuing to do so. Just sayin'.

    Well, at least on my part-time job I do have just that kind of discretion. And damn it all, I'm-a-gonna do it. I'm re-rigging my duty gear to accomodate a Smith and Wesson model 66 and two double Comp II's. Hell, it should fit perfectly across from the expandable PR-24 I still carry on the kit. Call me a dinosaur, I won't mind. T-Rex's were pretty kick-ass anyway. By the way... anyone who wants to donate basketweave leather gear, a shoulder holster of the K-frame variety, or some old comp II speedloaders to my favorite charity (me)... drop me a line.


    /rant off

    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money."
    - Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America

    Tell me not, Sweet, I am unkind,
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    To war and arms I fly.
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  2. #2
    Cidp24's Avatar
    Cidp24 is offline Tempus Fugit
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    I would still carry my 686 if I could. I was extremely accurate, confident, and happy with it. No semi-auto has ever felt right to me, other than a 1911.
    *************************
    "It wouldn't take much for me to up and run...
    to another life somewhere in the sun."
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    "There's something inherently wrong with having to put on a bullet-proof vest and a gun to go to work."-(An old friend)


    Any statements or opinions given in my postings or profile do not reflect the opinions, views, policies, and/or procedures of my employer or anyone else other than me. They are my personal opinions or statements only, thereby releasing my employer , any other entity, or any other person of any liability or involvement in anything posted under the username "Cidp24" on O/R.

  3. #3
    lewisipso's Avatar
    lewisipso is offline Injustice/Indifference/In God we trust
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    Couldn't afford a Smith when I had to buy my own. However, I couldn't bitch about that Ruger Security Six.
    Do not war for peace. If you must war, war for justice. For without justice there is no peace. -me

    We are who we choose to be.

    R.I.P. Arielle. 08/20/2010-09/16/2012


  4. #4
    ChesCopPodz's Avatar
    ChesCopPodz is offline Wandering son
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    I'm of the rare breed of under 30s who would carry a sixgun in a heartbeat.

    I have a S&W M&P that is mandated on duty. But when it's cold enough for a coat, under the coat is either my 4 inch S&W 619 357, or on days it's giving me the vibe that it wants to go out, a Colt Lawman 357.

    I prefer the HKS speedloaders, and am pretty fast with the 619. Haven't located any speedloaders the right size for the Lawman, which is the only reason i carry the 619 more.

    I'd carry the 619 and HKS loaders on duty in a heartbeat (with a compliment of 2 Bianchi speedstrips in a pocket).

    The 9mm +p+ rounds in my duty gun are attempting to equal the 357. The 9mm+p+ and the 357 Sig are attempts to duplicate the "lightening bolt effect" of the 357 mag and it's legendary history of stopping power. However they can't. On paper, they are all 125 grain projectiles at roughly 1400 fps, but they've found in testing on ballistic gel and animal bodies that the full jacket round in the auto pistol expands slower than the 357 mag, and thus the wound channel is not as wide.

    I'd rather stay with the king, not the ones that attempt to equal it.
    The world would be much cleaner if blind people carried brooms instead of sticks.

    At communion, when the priest says "Body of Christ", I say "Thanks, I've been working out", then I grab the cracker and run back to my seat

    An amateur practices until he gets it right. A professional practices until he cant get it wrong.

    They've got us surrounded? Good. Now we can fire in any direction. Those bastards won't get away this time.

  5. #5
    ChesCopPodz's Avatar
    ChesCopPodz is offline Wandering son
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    Quote Originally Posted by lewisipso View Post
    Couldn't afford a Smith when I had to buy my own. However, I couldn't bitch about that Ruger Security Six.
    The Ruger Service Six is what I started shooting with. My dad was in the same boat as you, wanted a 19, but had a young family to feed and settled for the Ruger. He still has it.
    The world would be much cleaner if blind people carried brooms instead of sticks.

    At communion, when the priest says "Body of Christ", I say "Thanks, I've been working out", then I grab the cracker and run back to my seat

    An amateur practices until he gets it right. A professional practices until he cant get it wrong.

    They've got us surrounded? Good. Now we can fire in any direction. Those bastards won't get away this time.

  6. #6
    lewisipso's Avatar
    lewisipso is offline Injustice/Indifference/In God we trust
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    I was accurate enough to put my small hand over all rounds fired at 25 yards. I miss mine. Had kids to feed as well and had to sell it. Maybe one day I'll try again.
    Do not war for peace. If you must war, war for justice. For without justice there is no peace. -me

    We are who we choose to be.

    R.I.P. Arielle. 08/20/2010-09/16/2012


  7. #7
    Captain America's Avatar
    Captain America is offline Reed and Malloy were my FTOs
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    I own two S&W Model 19s , one of which was my original duty weapon. I would not hesitate to carry it again on the streets. Over the years I have seen people survive , fight and run away with bullet holes in the 10 ring with 9mms, 25 , 380, 38, 40 and yes even .45 caliber. Never seen anybody hit with a 357 round in a vital area do anything but hit the ground and bleed alot. Even those " fortune" enough to be hit in an limb by a .357 knew they had been shot and really were not anxious to hear another loud ' BOOM' anytime soon.
    SI VIS PACEM PARA BELLUM

    "It's a great life. You risk your skin catching killers and the juries turn them loose so they can come back and shoot at you again. If your honest , your poor your whole life. And , In the end , you wind up dying all alone on some dirty street. For what? For nothing. For a tin star."
    -Ex-Sheriff Martin Howe to Will Kane in "High Noon"

    Far from being a handicap to command, compassion is the measure of it. For unless one values the lives of his soldiers and is tormented by their ordeals , he is unfit to command.
    -General Omar Bradley, United States Army

    Renniger-Richards-Griswold-Owens

  8. #8
    Trojan 42's Avatar
    Trojan 42 is offline Retired Ninja
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    My first duty gun was a SW Mod 28. Then a Browning 9mm, then the glock. Which would I take on the streets given the choice? Glock anytime. 6 shots and then needing a reload? No thanks.
    To be born an Englishman, is to be a winner in the Lottery of Life.



    I've Talked the Talk and I've Walked the Walk, now I Sit the Sit!

    It's not until you look at an Ant through a magnifying glass on a sunny day, that you realise just how often they burst into flames for no reason!

  9. #9
    Xiphos's Avatar
    Xiphos is offline I Void Warranties
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    My last agency gave me a Glock and 46 rounds of .40. That's it. Given the choice between that and a revolver I'd take the Glock.

    Now I work for an agency that gives me a rifle. I don't have restrictions on deploying it, and I'm given enough ammo to end WWIII.

    Considering that a handgun is only good for fighting your way to a rifle I was screwed at the first agency. I needed all the ammo I could get my hands on and reload as fast as possible. Now I have access to proper tools needed in a gunfight. I think I wouldn't mind carrying a S&W in .357 or .44. That would do the job on any human in a close up shooting and I could fight my way to my long guns. That would also help with the bears and other large mammals (as well as people) here, at least until I could get to my rifle (people) or my shotty with slugs (larger predatory mammals.)

    Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I would like carrying a big wheel gun here.

    Unfortunately I'm mandated to carry the Glock .40.
    Pleasing nobody, one person at a time.

    That which does not kill me, better start fucking running.

    If I lived every day like it was my last, the body count would be staggering.

    I intend to go in harm's way. -John Paul Jones

    Hunt the wolf, and bring light to the dark places that others fear to go. LT COL Dave Grossman

  10. #10
    Cidp24's Avatar
    Cidp24 is offline Tempus Fugit
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trojan 42 View Post
    My first duty gun was a SW Mod 28. Then a Browning 9mm, then the glock. Which would I take on the streets given the choice? Glock anytime. 6 shots and then needing a reload? No thanks.

    6 (or less) shots in the right place with the right round negates the need for reload.
    *************************
    "It wouldn't take much for me to up and run...
    to another life somewhere in the sun."
    *************************
    "There's something inherently wrong with having to put on a bullet-proof vest and a gun to go to work."-(An old friend)


    Any statements or opinions given in my postings or profile do not reflect the opinions, views, policies, and/or procedures of my employer or anyone else other than me. They are my personal opinions or statements only, thereby releasing my employer , any other entity, or any other person of any liability or involvement in anything posted under the username "Cidp24" on O/R.

  11. #11
    pgg's Avatar
    pgg
    pgg is offline Damnit, I'm hungry again.
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    I've never liked the .40. Recently got approved to carry my old .45 again so it's back in the saddle. I have a 10mm at home that I would feel comfortable carrying also. I have a few wheel guns but use them for just plinking.
    'Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a
    delusional, illogical liberal minority, and rabidly
    promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which
    holds forth the proposition that it is entirely
    possible to pick up a turd by the clean end!'

    A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity. Sigmund Freud

  12. #12
    Trojan 42's Avatar
    Trojan 42 is offline Retired Ninja
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cidp24 View Post
    6 (or less) shots in the right place with the right round negates the need for reload.
    Very true. Unfortunately it's quite hard to get six shots in the right place in a gun fight.
    To be born an Englishman, is to be a winner in the Lottery of Life.



    I've Talked the Talk and I've Walked the Walk, now I Sit the Sit!

    It's not until you look at an Ant through a magnifying glass on a sunny day, that you realise just how often they burst into flames for no reason!

  13. #13
    Five-0's Avatar
    Five-0 is offline Super Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trojan 42 View Post
    Very true. Unfortunately it's quite hard to get six shots in the right place in a gun fight.
    I had never shot wheel guns up until about 2 years ago. The learning curve to hitting a 3x5" index card from 15 yards was much shorter than with a Glock. The wheel guns (Smith and Taurus) just fit my hands so much better.

    Meanwhile, fishing in Russia:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkzV5AIK8iM
    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." -- Frederic Bastiat

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  14. #14
    Broke Hoss's Avatar
    Broke Hoss is offline Corporal
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    I've got 2 mdl 66's; 1 was bought/carried by my dad & the 2nd was my issued gun. Although I carried dad's most, I liked his front sight w/o the insert, I jumped at the chance to buy "my" gun when it was offered.

    Never felt undergunned with the old mdl 66 & I certainly shot it better. I dropped from master to expert when I went with the semi-auto. I still laugh about carrying as many in the gun now as I did total back in the day.

    Did ya'll have inter-departmental PPC shoots? I was part of our pistol team & all the agencies in this part of Texas used to host matches. We shot PPC and had classifications for duty & modified weapons. We won our share, but I remember DPS & BP being hard to beat.
    Blessed are the the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. MATT 5:10

  15. #15
    keith720's Avatar
    keith720 is offline Finely Aged
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    I have a Model 28 that I would have no problem carrying on-duty. I was weaned on a revolver and I'm amazed when I go to training now, and a target pops up and I hear 16 shots go off, usually before the shooter takes the time to evaluate where their shots went!
    For the morning will come. Brightly will it shine on the brave and true, kindly upon all who suffer for the cause, glorious upon the tombs of heroes. Thus will shine the dawn.

    Winston Churchill

  16. #16
    MacLean's Avatar
    MacLean is offline O/R Gun mod
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    I love wheelguns, and carry one daily. I learned on a Model 19 and various Model 10s.

    I'd still choose a Glock in my duty holster. It is every bit as accurate as the revolver, every bit as powerful (given the right caliber selection), and carries at least twice the ammo. The sights are better, too.

    They probably don't fit everyone's hand, which is where the revolver was easy to customize.

    Most people who suggest the Glock isn't as accurate are struggling with the factory trigger.
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


    I was looking for a saint who was a devil of a lover,
    but every girl I found was either one way or the other...



  17. #17
    Bjohnson63's Avatar
    Bjohnson63 is offline King of the Shit Bucket
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    LOL... Call be a young whipper snapper.... But I HATE revolvers! I would carry one on duty only if they made me ride a horse to work. LOL.

  18. #18
    keith720's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjohnson63 View Post
    LOL... Call be a young whipper snapper.... But I HATE revolvers! I would carry one on duty only if they made me ride a horse to work. LOL.
    Kids these days! Give them a real man's gun, and they'd still rather play with plastic!
    For the morning will come. Brightly will it shine on the brave and true, kindly upon all who suffer for the cause, glorious upon the tombs of heroes. Thus will shine the dawn.

    Winston Churchill

  19. #19
    Cidp24's Avatar
    Cidp24 is offline Tempus Fugit
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    Quote Originally Posted by keith720 View Post
    Kids these days! Give them a real man's gun, and they'd still rather play with plastic!
    Hang on now, not only do you get a gun but a box to keep your lunch fresh when you get a Glock. (All you Glock folks settle down, this is a joke )



    Wow, I just now learned the box is no longer Tupperware-like.
    *************************
    "It wouldn't take much for me to up and run...
    to another life somewhere in the sun."
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    "There's something inherently wrong with having to put on a bullet-proof vest and a gun to go to work."-(An old friend)


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  20. #20
    MacLean's Avatar
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    Damn, that's an old Glock
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


    I was looking for a saint who was a devil of a lover,
    but every girl I found was either one way or the other...



 

 
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