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  1. #1
    Piggybank Cop's Avatar
    Piggybank Cop is offline Nobody important.
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    Civilian asked to see my "carry permit"

    Highjacked from http://forums.1911forum.com

    What if any feelings do you guys have for/about the CCW civilians?


    Civilian asked to see my "carry permit"

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    What, is this forums opinion and what would be the correct way to handle this situation:

    After all of these years - this has never happened to me:

    I was setting in a coffee shop, this morning reading the paper and enjoying a cup of coffee. (just for clarification, I had on shorts, flip flops and a Tommy Bahama shirt) Dressed pretty darn nice for a 75 degree morning in the south.

    There were several people doing the same thing and afew standing at the counter ordering, to go. This shop is somewhat remote - not connected to a mall. The owner is a personal friend of mine who lives 2 doors down the street from me.

    As I sat there reading I guess I had my elbows on the table holding the paper and suppose my 1911 was printing, somewhat, through my shirt. (I carry at 4 o'clock). I am always aware of any situation where I might print and try to avoid the possibility. Anyway,

    A rather large guy who I think was setting with several other guys at a near by table, (short hair, high and tight, - Marine Corp kinda guy, ex Marine myself) walked up and said, excuse me but are you a Law Enforcement Officer ?

    I turned and said - excuse me. He again said, are you a Law Enforcement Officer ? I said no - why do you ask ? He said I think I can see the imprint of your gun and if your are not in Law Enforcement I would like to see your "carry permit".

    My comment was: Are you in Law Enforcement ? He said no but I would still like to see your "carry permit".

    I kinda looked up and smiled (to me it was really no big deal) and said, sir, I am carrying a concealed weapon and have done so for almost 40 years now. And I assure you, I am authorized to carry this weapon.

    I don't know if he was showing off for his buddies or if he was just being an ass. But by now several people in the coffee shop was listening to what was going on.

    He again said, I would like to see your "carry permit". I said, sir, with all due respect - you are not authorized to request that information.

    He, very abruptly said: well then I'll call the police. I said, sir, that's fine with me but I assure you that I am authorized to carry. By this time the customers, in the coffee shop, was paying no attention to our discussion, whatsoever. The guy turned and returned to his table where his buddies were waiting. I could hear several whispers but really couldn't make them out.

    To my knowledge, no calls were ever made and nothing else happened.

    I finished my coffee and paper ( about 10 minutes), got up and left.

    I didn't want to be a butt about this situation but there are alot of situations where one would carry a gun and not be an LEO.

    What would you have done ????
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  2. #2
    bufford408's Avatar
    bufford408 is offline Just green and furry all over
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    Would have done the same thing I think. I'm A private person and don't normally tell people what I do for a living.( not that the cop car in the driveway doesn't say enough)

  3. #3
    jmur5074's Avatar
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    If I was the guy with the carry permit, I'd have done the same thing he did.

    If I was a cop responding to the dude's complaint, I'd have probably told him to pound sand and get a life.
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  4. #4
    Julie's Avatar
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    I agree , i would done same thing ! If anyone needs to read my personal info on a card , it wont be some jerk with an attitude .

  5. #5
    mxwelch's Avatar
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    I'd told him to get stuffed. Unless he was LEO he had no right to request it. I'd asked him just where did his authority come from? That guy was probably the one enforcing the no glass rule at the hotel pool with a firearm.

  6. #6
    Roses's Avatar
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    I'm not a LEO and I'm sitting in an establishment. I'm carrying a gun and it under my clothes but the outline of my gun is there. A person walks up to me wants to know what my intent is for carrying a gun in this establishment.

    Well, maybe because I'm practicing my right to carry a gun.
    Maybe I'm casing the joint.
    Maybe I'm waiting on other perps to rob them.
    Maybe I'm there to take the life of a frequent patron.
    Maybe I'm a PI and am following a patron.
    Maybe I'm waiting on someone across the street.
    Maybe I'm drinking coffee before I do commit an illegal act in another area.
    Maybe I'm waiting on a buyer to sell my gun.
    Maybe it makes me feel good to carry my gun.
    Maybe I'm protecting a witness.
    Maybe someone called me to meet them there to borrow a couple of hundred dollars and not to tell anyone that they need the money.
    Maybe I'm waiting on someone to get off the bus that has been followed by another passenger. There scared that the person is gonna do something. But hasn't done anything that the police will respond to as of yet.

    We are damned if we ask and damned if we don't ask.

    Perps carry guns too.

    If anything how would someone get into a discussion with a person who is believed to be carrying a gun without having that person draw down on them? Your trying to see if this person has an intention of committing a crime, has committed a crime or is just carrying a gun because he has a permit to carry one. You wanna try to figure out if this person indeed has a permit or wondering if you should call the police because their is a potential chance a crime maybe committed soon.

    Would it be better to just call the police?

    Maybe we need to instruct people of how to handle this type of situation. If there is no list maybe create a list of guidelines of what to do if you suspect someone is carrying a gun and then broadcast it so people can know what to do when such an incident occurs.

    More handouts!
    Last edited by Roses; 06-27-06 at 09:46 AM.
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  7. #7
    Dudleydoright's Avatar
    Dudleydoright is offline Officer First Class
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    Even before concealed carry became popular and legal for the general public concealing your weapon has been a problem. Makes folks nervous. We know who we are but they don't. Don't know if this was the situation but most of us have been there at one time or another.

  8. #8
    Norm357's Avatar
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    I would have told the dude to go fuck himself and went back to my coffee and paper.

  9. #9
    Detective7653's Avatar
    Detective7653 is offline Police Detective
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    When I first became a cop I was carrying a .38 S&W on my hip covered by a t-shirt. I was in a auto parts store and a guy walked up behind me and made a comment something like this, "I could just take that gun from your waist band and shot you with it"

    My reply to him was "You could try but I would really hate to have to kill you today because you tried to take my off duty weapon,.” Then my buddy who was with me who is also a cop walked up behind him and his commit was something like this

    “Yeah I guarantee you would be laying the floor because if my partner didn't shot you before you got his gun I guarantee I would have."

    The guy just looked at us and said I was only kidding and walked away. So it does happen. Has only happened once to me in the ten years I have been a cop. But it did make me more aware how much my gun profiles in certain clothing. It is definitely something everyone who carries should think about.

  10. #10
    aj261's Avatar
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    The same thing. Im also like a lot of other cops you normally don't disscuss or tell the avarage joe what I do for a living. Its not that Im not proud of what I do its just for my saftey and my families saftey. Its sad that we have to be that way.

  11. #11
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    I dont know what to say. First of all I know you were in a coffee place but still, that guy must have been one dumb bunny. To go up to someone and knowing that you had a weapon on your person and start asking you questions. Hell I was in a hardees the other day and a guy was had a gun on, covered by his shirt but I still noticed it. Did I go up to him off duty and demand to see his ID, hell no. I profiled him as a cop, ooooo i said a bad word and just kept my eye out just in case. All I can tell ya is it prolly will be rare that the situation will happen again.


  12. #12
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    I can understand the guy's concern, but it was foolish of him to confront someone with a gun, especially if he's suspicious of the person's intentions... unless he was packing himself. I'm not sure how I would have handled the situation, but my first concern would have been what was the factor that gave him the balls to confront someone with a gun? Diminished mental capacity? his own gun readily accessible? I would assume that he had the means to defeat me (at least in his own mind) and try to find away to make sure I had a tactical advantage before continuing the conversation--maybe offer to discuss the matter out of ear-shot of the other customers, identify myself as a LEO and then grill him about what he's thinking approaching someone who's obviously armed and check him for weapons.

    One thing: if he's a legitimately concerned citizen with huge balls, I would view that type as an asset more than a jack-ass. I personally believe that if there were more stand-up types in society our job would be a lot easier.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roses
    If anything how would someone get into a discussion with a person who is believed to be carrying a gun without having that person draw down on them? Your trying to see if this person has an intention of committing a crime, has committed a crime or is just carrying a gun because he has a permit to carry one.
    As a civilian, I personally don't think we should be asking, since it really isn't any of our business. This is just one of the many problems with the world today... we stick our noses into everyone's business. If an individual is carrying a weapon, it's due to one of three reasons - they are a LEO, a civilian with proper authorization (CCW), or a criminal.

    How do we know? We don't. Is it our business to ask? No. What should we do? It's really very simple. If and only if you are suspicious of something, leave the establishment immediately and call the police. Why do I say this? Because if the individual in question is a LEO, or a civilian with a CCW, he will be going about doing is business... just like you and me. If on the other hand, he is a criminal looking for trouble, he will not be sitting in a coffee shop, reading the paper, and enjoying a cup of coffee. Worse still, if he is a criminal, and you confront him, you most surely will die. Even if you don't die are you willing to take the chance? I'm not. Most criminals have nothing to lose and won't give you a second thought. You, on the other hand, have everything to lose. The right thing to do would be to just mind our own business and call the police (she says very nicely).
    Last edited by Crimebytes2; 06-27-06 at 11:35 AM.

  14. #14
    TNRRCop is offline Rookie
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    I think the situation was handled very well. If the asking party is not a LEO or owner/manager of the establishment, then it's none of their business.

  15. #15
    Roses's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimebytes2
    As a civilian, I personally don't think we should be asking, since it really isn't any of our business. This is just one of the many problems with the world today... we stick our noses into everyone's business. If an individual is carrying a weapon, it's due to one of three reasons - they are a LEO, a civilian with proper authorization (CCW), or a criminal.

    How do we know? We don't. Is it our business to ask? No. What should we do? It's really very simple. If and only if you are suspicious of something, leave the establishment immediately and call the police. Why do I say this? Because if the individual in question is a LEO, or a civilian with a CCW, he will be going about doing is business... just like you and me. If on the other hand, he is a criminal looking for trouble, he will not be sitting in a coffee shop, reading the paper, and enjoying a cup of coffee. Worse still, if he is a criminal, and you confront him, you most surely will die. Even if you don't die are you willing to take the chance? I'm not. Most criminals have nothing to lose and won't give you a second thought. You, on the other hand, have everything to lose. The right thing to do would be to just mind our own business and call the police (she says very nicely).
    Just adding to the discussion and throwing in some other comments.
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    can get along without it,
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    he can be made rich by it.

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    and is the countersign of friendship.

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    or stolen, for it is something that is of no
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  16. #16
    Iron Man's Avatar
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    My gun prints pretty badly being that is is a Glock 22. I would not do anything different then the guy here did I don't think. Most likely I would say I was not a cop (just because I don't like anyone knowing what I do).

    Why would you confront a guy that you know has a gun? Dumbass...
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThisGlock40
    Why would you confront a guy that you know has a gun? Dumbass...
    Exactly! It's as if you're asking for trouble.

  18. #18
    bufford408's Avatar
    bufford408 is offline Just green and furry all over
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThisGlock40
    My gun prints pretty badly being that is is a Glock 22.

    We carry Glock 21 45 cal. Try concealin that dude.

  19. #19
    Hannibal's Avatar
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    No shit it has a print. A 1911 is pretty damn hard to conceal, especially in the summer months. I think the guy carrying is a tard for not realizing this to begin with, but that's just my view of it.

    As for the mope asking him about the gun, I'd have told him I worked in waste management, and to fuhgettaboudit. That way you are not lying, we deal with trash every day, right? No one needs to know what I do, until I want them to know.

    This is the kind of guy that a thug is going to make a victim some day. If he was that concerned about it, he should have called the po-po to check it out.

    "Stupid should hurt."

  20. #20
    Crimebytes2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roses
    Just adding to the discussion and throwing in some other comments.
    Me, too!

 

 
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