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  1. #1
    nitestokker's Avatar
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    Question What do you think about the war in Iraq?

    When this thing first kicked off, I have to be honest, I did not care about the reasoning for it. I just wanted someone to finish what we could not finish in Desert Storm. I just wanted to see Saddam DEAD!

    As it drug on, my confidence in the US Government began to come into question and now I have to honestly say that I think we are now in a position similar to Viet Nam. By that I mean we did not approach this thing with the right mentality of total surprise and overwhelming force. Anyone who studies history knows that is the only way to win, whether it be a war between countries or a common street fight.

    Cut and run is going to create all-out regional civil war. Staying is going to create civil war in the US. I am at a loss and am truly scared for the future of my children.

    I voted for Bush twice and am a life-long, gun-toting, red-blooded, patriotic Republican. However, I am frankly frightened at ALL politicians now and where they are taking us.

    I digress: The question is "Do you approve/disapprove of the war in Iraq?" (and why?) and "What do we do now?" (and why?)

    Give me your thoughts please.

  2. #2
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    I thought it was ill conceived in the first place. Saddam should have been the goal for the first gulf war and dealt with at that time. The second war was a direct lie to us in the UK by Tony Blair. He stated on national TV that he had seen proof that WMD's existed and could be deployed within 45 minutes. Now I see that the US has now lost more troops than people that were killed in the Sept 11th attack which triggered the response in the first place.

    Tony Blair is still lying to us about Afghanistan too. They are saying that we have ONE injured soldier for each UK soldier killed. LIE, we have at least TEN wounded for each fatality. (inside information from my Army son).

    My solution? Napalm the poppy fields and bring ALL our (and your) troops home immediately. Civil war in Iraq? Don't care. NATO and the UN don't give a toss, why should we be any different?
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  3. #3
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    I'm at the point where I don't know what the believe and I don't think anyone who hasn't been over there and gotten some trigger time doesn't have a clue, either.

    The left wants us to believe that it's another Vietnam, which I don't think it is. The right wants us to believe we're over there doing humanitarian work.

    I tend to lean a little to the right. I mean I think it's good we got over there and took an evil tyrant out of power. And I think now that we've gotten the ball rolling we need to stay over there and see it through. Right now we have our finger in a proverbial dyke and if we just leave now, then they whole thing will fall apart.

    But I'm no expert. And I think the only opinion that really matters are those of the dead.

    But what do I know?
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    ^ What Rhino said!

  5. #5
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    I think Sadaam should have been taken out the first time. Again, when he kept refusing the UN inspectors access to weapons sites.

    My biggest issue with Iraq, is that it has siphoned off resources that should be in Afghanistan. The troops there were already stretched thin, and had their deployment extended while waiting for replacements when we went into Iraq. Now, the Taliban is resurfacing, and getting set up to move on Pakistan - we know Pakistan has WMD's. The government knew there were no WMD's in Iraq, but there was a real concern there was plenty of materials for dirty bombs.

    I also think civvies like Rumsfield and Cheney have no business running a war - they are more concerned with getting their nests feathered by contractors then keeping our troops safe.
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    Better to fight over there, than here.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhino View Post
    I'm at the point where I don't know what the believe and I don't think anyone who hasn't been over there and gotten some trigger time doesn't have a clue, either.

    The left wants us to believe that it's another Vietnam, which I don't think it is. The right wants us to believe we're over there doing humanitarian work.

    I tend to lean a little to the right. I mean I think it's good we got over there and took an evil tyrant out of power. And I think now that we've gotten the ball rolling we need to stay over there and see it through. Right now we have our finger in a proverbial dyke and if we just leave now, then they whole thing will fall apart.

    But I'm no expert. And I think the only opinion that really matters are those of the dead.

    But what do I know?


    Using the military to do humanitarian work is like using a riot baton on someone to get them to like the police. The military should be used to break shit and kill people. That has been the way war was fought since the beginning of mankind. The military should not be used as a police force. Call me simple minded, but they should have their bases outside the cities. Anyone that approaches them should be killed. The purpose of the military should be to keep non-Iraqis out. Let the tribal leaders stand up and yell about how evil the infidels are. Once they identify themselves, you guessed it, let the military return them to room temprature. After a few examples are made the dumbasses might just start getting the point. The only people in Iraq that seem to give a damn about moving forward are the Kurds in the north. Give them their own country, and the help they need to get it started. The other backward fools want to live in the stone age that is their problem. In my opinion, the only people that are against a success in Iraq are the people that want to see the U.S. weakened: China, France, Russia, and all the communist/socialist peace activist. Sorry for the rant, but America's concern with political correctness/what does the world think attitude will be her downfall. Arrogance is the downfall of every great power thoughout history. America's arrogance is that some in power think that they can make everyone like us.

    Meanwhile, fishing in Russia:

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  8. #8
    Andrewtx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDawg View Post

    I also think civvies like Rumsfield and Cheney have no business running a war - they are more concerned with getting their nests feathered by contractors then keeping our troops safe.


    That's a pretty remarkable and presumptuous thing to say. It's easy to lodge criticism at those who carry tremendous responsibility when we carry none of it ourselves. But what's your basis for accusing two people of being so callous and cold-hearted? On what basis do you presume to know what they think about when they go to bed at night? You don't suppose it pains them to know that they were involved with sending men to war when they return home wounded or don't return at all?

    I realize it's easy to accuse people or some pretty terrible qualities when you know you'll never have to accuse it to their face, especially when they're endlessly portrayed as inhuman by the media. But without having met them, something tells me you're wrong. Something tells me their eyes swell with tears just like anyone elses when they see kids and wives whose fathers and husbands won't be returning home.

    I don't mean to jump on you Pdawg, I don't mean this personally. But I hear things like this all the time and frankly I'm just tired of it.


    Civilian control of the military is also an American and constitutional tradition. It's as old as George Washington.

  9. #9
    CopsRCool302 Guest
    I think the partys is over, it's time to come home. let the red cross do the rest!

    That's my 2 cents

  10. #10
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    It's time to arm our friends over there to the teeth with small arms, and bring the ground troops home. Iraq is now a civil war.

    We can make sure the right side wins the civil war just by training the friendly Iraqis & supplying them with weapons, plus continuing to give them heavy air support - But we should not not give them any sophisticated weapons that can be used against us later: No planes, and no missiles, especially.

    I think going in with ground troops before we were prepared with the proper equipment (body armor, armored vehicles, etc) was the most serious mistake, followed by the fact that we did not take POW's - We just let the fuckers go, and drove on. There should have been a mop-up operation going in behind to take massive numbers of prisoners.

    I blame Rumsfeld and the Generals 100% for allowing that, mainly Tommy Franks, but this is armchair quarterbacking at this point. I doubt that any of us would have done much better on balance.
    Last edited by TXCharlie; 10-09-06 at 10:09 AM.

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  11. #11
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    Well, I think that it is going splendidly. You think of the amount of time we have been in country and the number of casualties is low, theirs are high. Marines, Sailors, Soldiers all signed a contract to fight for our country and it just so happens that the pres says we fight there so that is were the fight has to be. We went over there and started something, and we did a good deed will took out a dictator, a cruel and ruthless one no doubt. We can't just leave them high and dry. We take the time to train them, teach them our tactics and maybe even learn a thing or 2 from them. One cannot forsee or predict when they will be ready to walk on their own over there only time will tell.
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  12. #12
    TXCharlie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro56 View Post
    Well, I think that it is going splendidly. You think of the amount of time we have been in country and the number of casualties is low, theirs are high.
    You have a very valid point there...

    To put the number of soldiers killed into perspective, the number of murders in Dallas per year are about equal to the number of Texas soilders killed in Iraq since the war started (approximately 250 I believe).

    Still, that's too many to loose if some of the deaths could have been prevented by better equipment - As many logistics people as the Pentagon has planning for the "next big war", there's absolutely no excuse for equipment shortages, especially the nickle & dime stuff like body and vehicle armor.
    Last edited by TXCharlie; 10-09-06 at 12:56 PM.

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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm357 View Post
    Better to fight over there, than here.
    BINGO!!! For all of you doubters, we have not had an attack in this country since 9/11. Do you really think that's coincidence? The biggest problem with the war is that we aren't fighting it like a war. We are letting the P.C. crowd determine the rules of engagement, and we're more worried about "winning the hearts and minds" of the people than we are in defeating the Muslim fundamentalists. My thoughts are win the war, then win their minds. As it is, we appear weak, and if the Libs. get their way and we pull out, expect retaliation from the Muslims on our country, in our country.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrewtx View Post
    That's a pretty remarkable and presumptuous thing to say. It's easy to lodge criticism at those who carry tremendous responsibility when we carry none of it ourselves. But what's your basis for accusing two people of being so callous and cold-hearted? On what basis do you presume to know what they think about when they go to bed at night? You don't suppose it pains them to know that they were involved with sending men to war when they return home wounded or don't return at all?

    I realize it's easy to accuse people or some pretty terrible qualities when you know you'll never have to accuse it to their face, especially when they're endlessly portrayed as inhuman by the media. But without having met them, something tells me you're wrong. Something tells me their eyes swell with tears just like anyone elses when they see kids and wives whose fathers and husbands won't be returning home.

    I don't mean to jump on you Pdawg, I don't mean this personally. But I hear things like this all the time and frankly I'm just tired of it.


    Civilian control of the military is also an American and constitutional tradition. It's as old as George Washington.
    Excellent post. +2345678
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by nitestokker View Post
    I voted for Bush twice and am a life-long, gun-toting, red-blooded, patriotic Republican. However, I am frankly frightened at ALL politicians now and where they are taking us.

    I digress: The question is "Do you approve/disapprove of the war in Iraq?" (and why?) and "What do we do now?" (and why?)
    I generally tend to vote Republican as well. And I did vote for Bush too (part of that reason was because I did not like John Kerry at all...frankly, his undecided-ness scared the living daylights out of me)
    But one thing we really can't say is how any other president would have reacted to the attacks of 9/11. Probably in much the same way Bush did. The people wanted to get their "revenge" so to speak. At first people wanted to fight for our freedom. But I think some people really didn't think too hard about it. A war on terrorism has to take time, we need to be able to outwit the enemy. People wanted a quick solution, and they thought fighting would be quick and painless for the US. I think now that Saddam is out of there, i think we should leave it up to the people to decide what they want to do with their own country. However, Keith brought up the point that we haven't had an attack since 9/11 on our home turf...i see the pattern. And i also agree with him when he said that if we don't fight it there then we could be looking at fighting it here with more attacks... But in all reality, I don't really know for sure how I feel on the whole thing really. I have mixed feelings I guess.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrewtx View Post
    That's a pretty remarkable and presumptuous thing to say. It's easy to lodge criticism at those who carry tremendous responsibility when we carry none of it ourselves. But what's your basis for accusing two people of being so callous and cold-hearted? On what basis do you presume to know what they think about when they go to bed at night? You don't suppose it pains them to know that they were involved with sending men to war when they return home wounded or don't return at all?

    I realize it's easy to accuse people or some pretty terrible qualities when you know you'll never have to accuse it to their face, especially when they're endlessly portrayed as inhuman by the media. But without having met them, something tells me you're wrong. Something tells me their eyes swell with tears just like anyone elses when they see kids and wives whose fathers and husbands won't be returning home.

    I don't mean to jump on you Pdawg, I don't mean this personally. But I hear things like this all the time and frankly I'm just tired of it.


    Civilian control of the military is also an American and constitutional tradition. It's as old as George Washington.
    AndrewTx - Sorry, but they are both politicians. Cheney is on the board of Haliburton, which I see as a conflict of interest. Rumsfield has forced out experience military advisors from the Pentagon over the course of his tenure because they dared to disagree with him. While I won't deny their humanity - I'm not sure I said they were monsters either.

    Maybe I am biased. My mother spent 30+ years in civil service, working for the Navy. I've watched her cry in frustration over dealing with private contractors who are driven by the bottom line and their profit margins, not by servicemen's safety. I have a friend of 30+ years who worked for a now defunct military contractor. They timed their layoffs/closure to make the most money for the executives for the company. They closed down to avoid converting to include peacetime manufacture per a law enacted by Reagan. You have no idea how much worthless crap the military ends up having to buy due to back-door deals. Or the shoddy housing they end up living in because of sweetheart deals.

    While there have certainly been civilians as Secretary of Defense over the course of our history - I think the tradition was more towards those of a military background. George Washington was a General, after all.

    I personally feel that only those who have military experience should be running a war.
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  17. #17
    keith720's Avatar
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    For those of you who think Bush/Cheney started this war over oil, let's look at Al Gore and the "Oxidental Petroleum" deal. It seems that Mr. "Presidential Wannabe" Gore has large stock in a company named "Oxidental Petroleum." For those who don't know, this is the same company that had EXCLUSIVE bidding rights to all of the oil in the federal reserve and bought a large quantity of the oil at a price well below market. Had this been Bush/Cheney, the Liberals would be carrying pitchforks and torches outside of the Whitehouse. I'm sick of the political posturing of the left. Let's do this Iraq situation right, and get it over with.
    For the morning will come. Brightly will it shine on the brave and true, kindly upon all who suffer for the cause, glorious upon the tombs of heroes. Thus will shine the dawn.

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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDawg View Post
    I personally feel that only those who have military experience should be running a war.
    +1

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm357 View Post
    Better to fight over there, than here.

    For now yes, but they are already here, so it's just a matter of time. And not JUST Bin Ladens cronies, wannabees etc. Members of the Hezbollah clan have worked their way here at least since the 1980's. You hear about credit card fraud, and various other "typical" scams and that is exactly the tactics that these people use to raise money.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by OFK View Post
    For now yes, but they are already here, so it's just a matter of time. And not JUST Bin Ladens cronies, wannabees etc. Members of the Hezbollah clan have worked their way here at least since the 1980's. You hear about credit card fraud, and various other "typical" scams and that is exactly the tactics that these people use to raise money.
    And Americans will cross that bridge when we come to it. Honestly, al queda, hezbollah,or whomever, the last thing they want is a land war on our soil.
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