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  1. #1
    Cst.SB's Avatar
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    I dare you to watch this

    Ok folks.. I dare you to watch this, to get a better understanding of the ME.. I dare ya!

    Please watch

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...02461706761547

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cst.SB View Post
    Ok folks.. I dare you to watch this, to get a better understanding of the ME.. I dare ya!

    Please watch

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...02461706761547


    Damn,I will have to wait until I get home.

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    conalabu is offline Grasshopper
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    Great video. Solutions?
    And Shepards we shall be,
    for thee, My Lord, for thee,
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    That our feet may swiftly carry out Thy Command.
    So we shall flow a river forth to Thee
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  4. #4
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    I thought this was about the medical examiner!

    I'll have to watch later, when I can plug in.

    Watch Frontline tonight on PBS - it's about AlQueada in America
    Molly Weasley makes Chuck Norris eat his vegetables.

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  5. #5
    Cst.SB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by conalabu View Post
    Great video. Solutions?
    Honestly, I don't think there are any. We are so blind to what has been motivating Jihadism for so long that the problem is so far out of control.

    As for solutions for Canada and the US.. Better immigration policies, better screening, more intelligence, transparency from mosques (ie sermons in engish, etc), removal of head and face scarves.

    Failing that, it's back to where you came from.

  6. #6
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    Jenna... have a look this..

  7. #7
    Jenna's Avatar
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    OK, I watched it. Most Western European countries were similarly messed up at various points in their history (including half a century ago), but they're peaceful and kumbaya-singing-in-the-EU now.

    The solution lies in diplomacy to get Israelis and Palestinians to avoid violent conflict whenever possible (yes, I know that's easier said than done), and in the meantime to help Palestinians (and other similarly impoverished groups in the Middle East) attain greater economic prosperity and make links to the global economy. Most religious and ethnic conflicts are class conflicts in disguise. Ultimately, if all groups in the Middle East become as prosperous as Western Europeans, they'll have too much to lose and too little to gain from conflict, and settle down.
    Last edited by Jenna; 10-11-06 at 08:33 AM.

  8. #8
    Cst.SB's Avatar
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    Jenna,

    Thank you for watching. Now, that you've seen a glimpse into the ME.. Take this into account.. Since the dawn of Islam, there has been violent expansion going on.

    Islam spread through the ME, and across North Africa and into Europe. Spain was an Islamic nation for nearly 700 years until the french got tired of fighting off the raids and the first Cursade began. This continued on until the mid 1600s (1647?) when the Ottomens attempted to sack Vienna. (which is part of the reason why most Eurpopean countries were messed up!)

    This has nothing to do with poverty, it has to do with religion and what the Qu'ran instructs. The Saudis have one of the best standards of living in the world, yet it is illegal to openly worship anything but Islam, they fund global terrorism, and practice Whabbist version of Islam.

    Now did you watch this..

  9. #9
    cwtlady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenna View Post
    OK, I watched it. Most Western European countries were similarly messed up at various points in their history (including half a century ago), but they're peaceful and kumbaya-singing-in-the-EU now.

    The solution lies in diplomacy to get Israelis and Palestinians to avoid violent conflict whenever possible (yes, I know that's easier said than done), and in the meantime to help Palestinians (and other similarly impoverished groups in the Middle East) attain greater economic prosperity and make links to the global economy. Most religious and ethnic conflicts are class conflicts in disguise. Ultimately, if all groups in the Middle East become as prosperous as Western Europeans, they'll have too much to lose and too little to gain from conflict, and settle down.
    Sorry Jenna, I have to strongly disagree with you. They're impoverished, need more economic prosperity and need links to the global economy and it's a class problem? Correct me if I'm wrong but you seem to be saying that if they just had more money, they'd be okay?

    It's not about class. It's not about being in the right economic group. It's about looking at the world around you and deciding that your children and your neighbor's children dying every day is enough already. I guess they're just not tired of all the death yet. When will it be enough? And do you think that having a nice home, furniture, cars is going to be what is finally going to cause them to say "okay I've had enough of the death now, I'll get along with my neighbor"? Do you think that having a belly full of food is going to cause them to go to their neighbors and say "I have plenty let me share what I have with you"? If they weren't in the sharing mood before when they had food, no matter what the amount, their certainly not going to be in the sharing mood simply because they have more of it.

    Let me tell you I know people who are well off that have homes that look like pig pens. And they have the hearts to match. When they get their wealth they don't share with others, they hord it and it doesn't make them better people because they have more. If I were to lose my home and we for some reason had to go on welfare that wouldn't make me a bad person. I wouldn't resort to crime because it's just not in my heart to do so.

    The solution to this sickening mess is going to come, in part, from the Islamic community. They have to want to be so sickened by the death and their living conditions that they will do anything for peace. Why can't they lay down their guns and look to their neighbors to see what can be done to improve life for them? Why can't they look into the faces of their own children and say enough already? Why? Because this religion of theirs is a religion of hate and intolerance. That's evident by the news reports, by their fruits you will know them.

    The solution lies with them whether they are extremists or moderates. They both have to be so sick and tired of living this way and being thought of this way by the world that it causes them to change themselves. We cannot change them, they have to change from within. We will always have nations that are a thorn-in-the-flesh so to speak. Some are bigger thorns than others.

    They already have too much to lose (children, peace, happiness) and still that does not stop them. And as for having too little to gain from conflict, have you thought of the power they would be giving up? And do you think money will help them get over the power they would lose?

    I respectfully disagree with you. I hope you can see the points I was trying to make. Hopefully I didn't come across as being angry with you. I angry with the attitude that if we were just nicer to them they wouldn't feel the need to commit violent acts. That attitude drives me nuts.

    Have a good day.
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  10. #10
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    Isthatlegal, most people (including most Arabs and Muslims) don't fight because they're evil, but because they're desperate and have nothing to lose that they wouldn't be in danger of losing anyway. Their children, peace, and happiness are either already gone or at risk of being destroyed due to poverty and its accompanying insecurity. There are always a few evil psychopaths in every country who just like killing for its own sake and will use social inequalities as an excuse to kill, but they are a tiny minority who can easily be defeated by the majority if the majority feels it has too much to lose from political instability. Wealthier people are not better people than poorer people, but wealthier people have more to lose from war and more to gain from peace.

    Cst.SB, Most groups worldwide have been violently expanding, or trying to, throughout most of history. Wars were the norm and not the exception. This new age of globalization actually promises the best hope we've ever had for world peace (if we don't nuke or globally warm ourselves into extinction first). Saudi Arabia is a great example of how prosperity leads to peace--they haven't started any wars, their government officially opposes and is hated by Al Qaeda, and they are a US ally because they have too much to lose from war and instability. Sure they promote fundamentalist Islam within their own borders, but that's their own business. Their government is not starting wars with other countries (which is more than we can say for the US). Sure there are terrorists living in their country, but there are also terrorists living in the US and Western Europe as well--terrorists are criminals without borders, and can only be stopped by law enforcement and global cooperation. If all the groups in the Middle East had as much to lose from war as most Saudis do, their governments would all hesitate to take military action just as the Saudi government does.

  11. #11
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    LOL! Oh boy...

  12. #12
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    Jenna,
    I respecfully disagree with you. I think if you look at history most fighting and wars were because someone wanted more power and to dominate, or because they were pushing their beliefs and/or religions on others. I don't think it's about poverty as much as you think. Now that may be the case with-in countries but not country against country.

    Also when it comes to the ME most of this fighting isn't per say country on country. It's fundamentalist group against another religion or another fundamentalist group. They may be supported by a country or leader but its not that countries Army.

    This is nothing more than being taught that their religion is the only religio0n and believers of all other religions must be wiped from the face of the earth if they won't convert. They are taught this from day one so it is what they honestly believe. If you are taught by your parents, church, schools, friends, society, etc. one thing then that is what you will believe no matter what. I don't care if it is thought to be wrong to the rest of the world you know it to be right. And your taught that if you die while killing ones that don't believe then you will go to heaven and be with GOD, then that is what you will do.

    This to me has nothing to do with poverty or who has what, its about religion and what they are taught to believe. We aren't going to change their mind-set. They must change, and they must change the way they teach their children. Unfortunatly this process takes atleast one generation. So chances are we wont see it in our lifetime. But maybe there is hope for our children if things start to change now, if not then maybe for our grandchildren.

    Im currently working with several Officers from Muslim countries, and most of them are passive. But they still think all women should cover their faces, not work, etc. They still have extremally strong beliefs, just not at the point where Ive seen them get violent. They say there is two different types of Muslims who "read" the teachings of the K'oran differently. The extremest and the non-extremest.

    We don't need to go and whipe out a country to fight this "war", but we do need to fight fire with fire against the extremest. They have been fighting this war for hundreds of years, do you honestly believe that by being nice to them and bringing them out of their so called poverty that they will stop the violence? I don't think so, not when their religion says not to.

    I too hope this didn't sound like I was mad because I'm not. I just wanted to put my view of the situation out there.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenna View Post
    Isthatlegal, most people (including most Arabs and Muslims) don't fight because they're evil, but because they're desperate and have nothing to lose that they wouldn't be in danger of losing anyway. Their children, peace, and happiness are either already gone or at risk of being destroyed due to poverty and its accompanying insecurity. There are always a few evil psychopaths in every country who just like killing for its own sake and will use social inequalities as an excuse to kill, but they are a tiny minority who can easily be defeated by the majority if the majority feels it has too much to lose from political instability. Wealthier people are not better people than poorer people, but wealthier people have more to lose from war and more to gain from peace.
    Yes, people fight because they are evil/bad and they do it because they are desperate and have nothing to lose or so they think. Their possessions are not gone due to poverty and insecurity, they're gone because those types didn't care to keep them. They found something more important to them than their children, peace and happiness. These things have been replaced with lust for power, insane thinking and just plain evil thinking.

    Wealthier people have more to gain from peace? Not if they're extremists. They have more to gain from war. War is what these people are living for and the followers of these people are living for the religion that put the extremists in power in the first place. The moderates are going along with this religion and it's founder. If war is not what the moderates want then they need to break away from the extremists and say to the world unequivocally that they in no way shape or form have any ties to these extreme views and completely oppose them. If peace is important to them then this needs to be done constantly and openly. Do we see that? Nope.

    Saudi Arabia should be the most vocal opponent of extreme Islamic views. I don't see that as being the case. Being "offically" opposed to something and then promoting it within their very own borders is like talking out of both sides of your face. It doesn't work and sooner or later one is going to win out over the other.

    It will be interesting to see what happens with Saudi Arabia in this war.
    Last edited by cwtlady; 10-11-06 at 04:01 PM.
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    Agreed and we here in the US must be "Tolerant" and to what is really going on. From the time these children are born, they are brainwashed and molded into a mini martyr and everyone else is evil and the enemy. Families are rewarded with loot when their children strap on-strap off...It is in the culture, there is no changing that. They live, breath and spew hate. It's so far out there that most either don't want to see it, or just refuse to accept it. They are here, there are approximately 1400 Mosques in the US. There are several hundred Islamic schools in the US.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenna View Post
    Cst.SB, Most groups worldwide have been violently expanding, or trying to, throughout most of history. Wars were the norm and not the exception. This new age of globalization actually promises the best hope we've ever had for world peace (if we don't nuke or globally warm ourselves into extinction first). Saudi Arabia is a great example of how prosperity leads to peace--they haven't started any wars, their government officially opposes and is hated by Al Qaeda, and they are a US ally because they have too much to lose from war and instability. Sure they promote fundamentalist Islam within their own borders, but that's their own business. Their government is not starting wars with other countries (which is more than we can say for the US). Sure there are terrorists living in their country, but there are also terrorists living in the US and Western Europe as well--terrorists are criminals without borders, and can only be stopped by law enforcement and global cooperation. If all the groups in the Middle East had as much to lose from war as most Saudis do, their governments would all hesitate to take military action just as the Saudi government does.
    Jenna, I'm really trying here!!! And I have been accused (Nick, you bastard) recently of painting an entire religion with the terrorist paint brush, which is certainly not the case. Human beings are dynamic and ever changing and there are no absolutes when talking about a billion people.

    However, you couldn't be further from the truth about the Saudis. They have some of the worst human rights violations in the world. They sponsor wars and terrorism globally. The Saudis have sponsored terrorism in the Balkans, chechenia, Iraq, Afghanistan, PA, Sudan, Philipines, etc, and the Saudis have funded inpart Islamic terrorist groups from Islamic Jihad to Al Qaeda.

    Where there is Islamic terrorism you will find a Saudi dollar.

    Jenna, what you have to understand is that this has very little to the US invasion into Iraq, and/or poverty, and everything to do with a global conquest that began 1400 years ago.

    Does this mean that the nice Muslim guy living next door to you is a terrorist? No, it does not. But should you raise an eyebrow when the local mosque wants have the call to pray ringing out numerous times a day as in this US city. Or when the Counsel for American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) says that it wants to replace the US Constitution with Sharia Law, you might want to stand up and take notice to what's happening all over the world.
    Last edited by Cst.SB; 10-11-06 at 09:51 PM.

  16. #16
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    Jenna, take this in the spirit that it's meant, but if Islam is that great, what's stopping you from joining? Is it the fact that if you're a woman, you're property with no rights/will of your own, or is it the base degredation that would be forced on you?

    Those are just a couple of the reasons that I have problems with Islam. In this day and age there's no excuse for treating someone like that. And when the religion mandates that fully half the population live as slaves to the other half simply because of gender, then I can guarantee you they won't have a problem treating others of different beliefs worse. You or I, or ANY woman, would be stoned to death for just showing our faces in public under Sharia law. That's not the kind of thing I can support, but they're willing to kill anyone who disagrees with them. Are you prepared to disagree, or would you knuckle under and become one of them? Better think about it now, because you may need to have a ready answer later.
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