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  1. #1
    FTL_Ian's Avatar
    FTL_Ian is offline Professional Iconoclast
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    Penn and Teller's BULLSHIT!

    One of the best TV shows of all time. Anyone here watch?

    http://video.google.com/videosearch?...eller+bullshit
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  2. #2
    Terminator's Avatar
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    I love it.

  3. #3
    FTL_Ian's Avatar
    FTL_Ian is offline Professional Iconoclast
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    Episode of special interest to LEOs:
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...t+war+on+drugs
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  4. #4
    Pedro56's Avatar
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    Good Show.
    http://www.lawenforcementforums.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic763_2.gif

    "I am the guy that keeps Mister Dead in his pocket." -'Mad' Max Rockatansky

    "An Englewood Ranger is no stranger to Danger.." -Unk

    Good Night Chesty Where Ever You Are.

    A Good Friend will bail you out of jail, but a true friend will be sitting next to you in the cell saying, "That was Awesome."

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  5. #5
    TheOldRhino's Avatar
    TheOldRhino is offline Corporal
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    Yes. I love the show. Penn Jillette is one of my heroes.

    And, Ian: Here's one for your FTLers
    The virtue of spirit has no need for thanks or approval. Only the certain conviction that what has been done is right. -Jor El, as played by Marlon Brando

  6. #6
    StanSwitek's Avatar
    StanSwitek is offline Corporal
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    Quote Originally Posted by FTL_Ian View Post
    Episode of special interest to LEOs:
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...t+war+on+drugs
    There is no "civil right" to do what is wrong or harmful to yourself, your family, or your society. The facts show that legalization is a mistake for America because: Illegal drugs are more addictive and dangerous than the legal drugs alcohol and tobacco, which is verified by thousands of scientific studies. Legalization would result in more crime such as driving while intoxicated; child abuse, including child pornography; random violent crime; and a prosperous black market. Legalization has no economic justification. Taxing illicit drugs would offset only a small fraction of the social costs. Banning illicit drugs is not like alcohol "Prohibition." Drug laws reduce abuse and the medical costs associated with abuse. Legalization would do the opposite. Other nations have learned that liberalizing drug policies only leads to more addicts and unacceptable social consequences. Illicit drugs offer no offsetting health benefits. Rather, marijuana damages most major body systems and provides minimal help for glaucoma victims and only when they are constantly stoned. Cocaine is far more addictive than alcohol, and marijuana is at least 10 times more potent today than a generation ago.

  7. #7
    TheOldRhino's Avatar
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    Show me one study, Stan- just one- that says that marijuana is more harmful than alcohol or tobacco. Take your time. I'll wait.

    And I want some study that has some evidence like video or pictures. Not something from a fundie website that based it's findings on "Because Jesus said so."

    You sound like that skinny studdering guy with a tie they had in that video.
    The virtue of spirit has no need for thanks or approval. Only the certain conviction that what has been done is right. -Jor El, as played by Marlon Brando

  8. #8
    StanSwitek's Avatar
    StanSwitek is offline Corporal
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    I notice libertarians get soooo angry and are so intolerant with points of view that differ from theirs...

  9. #9
    StanSwitek's Avatar
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    I included footnotes for you big shooter. Toke up.

    When cocaine is combined with marijuana, it can be deadly. According to a study in Pharmacology, Biochemistry and Behavior, an increase in heart rate due to cocaine was markedly enhanced if preceded by smoking marijuana.[14] The dual use creates greater risk of overdose and more severe cardiovascular effects from the cocaine. An article in Schizophrenia Research found that up to 60 percent of schizophrenic patients used non-prescription psychoactive drugs.[15]

    By itself, marijuana is a dangerous drug as well. A joint of marijuana is far more carcinogenic than a cigarette. Microbiologist Tom Klein of the University of South Florida reports, "We've tried working with [marijuana smoke], and it's so toxic, you just get it near the immune system and it [the immune system] dies." Klein found that THC [tetrahydrocannabinol -- the active ingredient in marijuana] suppresses some immune system responses and enhances others.[16]

    A study in the Journal of Allergy and Clinical Immunology found that marijuana smoke is often contaminated by the fungus, Aspergillus.[17] Another study in the Journal of the American Medical Association found that cases of allergic sinus infection with the same fungus came from recreational use of contaminated marijuana.[18]

    A study in Drug and Alcohol Dependence found that cannabis [marijuana] users react very slowly in performing motor tasks and suffer disability in personal, social and vocational areas. They also indicate a higher score for neurotic and psychotic behavior.[19]

    A study in American Review of Respiratory Diseases found that marijuana smoke is as irritating as tobacco smoke; when used together, marijuana and tobacco cause the small oxygen-exchanging parts of the lung to shed cells that first become inflamed.[20]

    A 1995 study in The New England Journal of Medicine suggests that illicit drugs such as marijuana and cocaine can interfere with male sperm production.[21] A study in Cancer found that the children of women who smoke marijuana are 11 times more likely to contract leukemia.[22]

    Mothers who smoke marijuana also contribute to low birth weight and developmental problems for their children and increase the risk of abnormalities similar to those caused by fetal alcohol syndrome by as much as 500 percent.[23]

    Kasi Sridhar, a professor at the University of Miami's Sylvester Comprehensive Cancer Research Center, reports finding large numbers of marijuana smokers among younger cancer patients. While only 17 percent of the patients in his study were marijuana smokers, two-thirds of the patients younger than 45 smoked cannabis.[24]

    Since the 1970s there have been more than 10,500 scientific studies which demonstrate the adverse consequences of marijuana use.[25] Many of these studies draw upon data collected when most of the marijuana available in the U.S. was far less potent than that available today. Indeed, drug czar Lee Brown says that marijuana on the streets today is up to 10 times more potent than a generation ago. This fact contributes to its addictive nature.[26]

    14. Marijuana Research Review 1 (Portland: Drug Watch Oregon, October 1994). The original article appears in Pharmacology, Biochemistry and Behavior 48 (1994): 715-721.

    15. Marijuana Research Review, February 1994. The original article is found in Schizophrenia Research 11 (1993): 3-8.

    16. Daniel P. Ray, "Marijuana Use Linked to Cancer," The Miami Herald 8 February 1994.

    17. Marijuana Research Review 1 (Portland: Drug Watch Oregon, July 1994). The original article appears in the Journal of Allergy and Clinical Immunology 71 (1983): 389-393.

    18. Marijuana Research Review, July 1994. The original article appears in the Journal of the American Medical Association 256 (1986): 3249-3253.

    19. Marijuana Research Review, July 1994. The original article appears in Drug and Alcohol Dependence 21 (1988): 147-152.

    20. Marijuana Research Review, July 1994. This article appears in American Review of Respiratory Diseases 135 (1987): 1271-1275.

    21. Stuart S. Howards, "Treatment of Male Infertility," The New England Journal of Medicine 332 (1995): 312-317.

    22. Leslie L. Robison, "Maternal Drug Use and Risk of Childhood Nonlymphoblastic Leukemia Among Offspring," Cancer 63 (1989): 1904-1911.

    23. U.S. Department of Justice, Drug Legalization 43.

    24. Ray, 8 February 1994.

    25. Marijuana Research Review, July 1994.

    26. "National Survey Finds Teen Drug Use Up; 13% of 8th-Graders Have Used Marijuana," St. Louis Post-Dispatch 13 December 1994: A-1.

  10. #10
    John Brown's Avatar
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    Hi, I am new here and also a Libertarian.
    I am not a LEO, just a civilian.
    I came here to have intelligent discussions with LEO's and just get an idea of how they generally feel about things.
    I love Penn and Teller, they are awesome. Did you guys know that Penn has a radio show? You can download it as a MP3 from pennradio.com
    Stan, I don't think libertarians are any more intolerant than anyone else, in fact, I would say that we are one of the most tolerant groups that I can think of.
    Personally I have a big problem with people trying to force their views upon me, but other than that, I don't care what people think.
    What Rhino said about marijuana is 100% true.
    There is no scientific evidence that Marijuana is harmful, and a bunch of evidence that it is beneficial in certain ways.

    Edit: Well, there is very little evidence, I shouldn't have said none. A great book on this subject is Mitch Earlywines book "Understanding Marijuana: A New Look at the Sceintific Evidence"
    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/IS...indesmithcenA/
    Last edited by John Brown; 12-04-06 at 04:29 PM.
    Sheriff john brown always hated me,
    For what, I dont know:
    Every time I plant a seed,
    He said kill it before it grow -
    He said kill them before they grow.

  11. #11
    StanSwitek's Avatar
    StanSwitek is offline Corporal
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    Hi John,

    I posted the best info I had supported by footnoted studies. I guess it up to people to make their own decision. I will not be putting marijuana into my body. Thats my choice. If you chose to do so, it doesnt make me angry. I made the comment about being angry because Rhino and many other libs I have seen seem to get very angry at other people opinions. So much so Rhino neg repped me & sent me a very angry PM all because I quipped "Just what we need, more people on drugs & hookers" or something to that effect. The reaction was very angry & intolerant.

    The author of the book you mention is associated with NORMAL so I tend to discount his claims just like you may anything that the DEA puts out. The author also claims people being arrested for marijuana are bankrupting the court system. Absolutely false since marijuana is an infraction in most states & thus people cannot be arrested only cited for possession. I have also spoken to numerous MD's over the years who feel that the claims of marijuana being benificial are false. This is supported by studies I have posted above.

    Anyway, based on my police experience I just dont see we need more legal intoxicants. Nothing to start a flame war over, just my 2 cents.
    Last edited by StanSwitek; 12-04-06 at 05:02 PM.

  12. #12
    Michelle's Avatar
    Michelle is offline Civilian
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    I have a relative who is contracted with the government to help those who for one, have addiction problems.
    I went to his therapy website and found a link to another website with the following information. I hope it can be of help too.
    <not quoting everything as not to bore anyone>.

    http://familydoctor.org/485.xml

    The following are some of the common physical effects of marijuana:

    * Tremors (shaking)
    * Nausea
    * Headache
    * Coordination becoming worse
    * Breathing problems
    * Increased appetite
    * Reduced blood flow to the brain
    * Changes in the reproductive organs

    Like tobacco, marijuana contains many chemicals that can hurt the lungs and cause cancer. One marijuana cigarette can cause more damage to the lungs than many tobacco cigarettes because marijuana has more tar in it and is usually smoked without filters.
    -
    Last edited by Michelle; 12-04-06 at 05:40 PM. Reason: werd

  13. #13
    esfisher's Avatar
    esfisher is offline Non-Anarchist, Non-Drug Using Libertarian
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    Quote Originally Posted by StanSwitek View Post
    I included footnotes for you big shooter. Toke up.
    Here's a more recent study, from 2004:
    http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v04/n671/a09.html

    Interesting points:
    These findings are consistent with findings on frequency and quantity of use and intensity and duration of intoxication, and they have important public health implications. Claims that cannabis produces addiction or dependence(13-15) lead one to expect that many experienced users would report Pattern 2--escalation of use over time. But this pattern was reported by only 6% in both cities, which means that 94% of respondents had overall career use patterns that did not entail escalation across careers.

    These data suggest that most experienced users organize their use according to their own subcultural etiquette--norms and rules about when, where, why, with whom, and how to use--and less to laws or policies. When experienced users abide by such etiquette, they appear to regulate their cannabis use so as to minimize the risk that it will interfere with normal social functioning. This pattern suggests that if formal drug policies are based on the folk ( informal ) drug policies users themselves already practice, drug policies may achieve greater relevance.

  14. #14
    TheOldRhino's Avatar
    TheOldRhino is offline Corporal
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    Tobacco is the real "gateway drug".
    The virtue of spirit has no need for thanks or approval. Only the certain conviction that what has been done is right. -Jor El, as played by Marlon Brando

  15. #15
    MissMyCaprice's Avatar
    MissMyCaprice is offline Master Officer
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    Rhino, I've been discussing this with cops, RN's and social workers for years:
    Have you ever met an IV drug abuser that did NOT smoke cigarettes?

    I don't think I have. As soon as the cuffs come out, everyone is beggin' for one last cigarette.
    Has anyone else noticed this?

  16. #16
    TheOldRhino's Avatar
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    Short of food additives like caffeine and sugar, I have yet to meet a substance abuser that didn't use tobacco in one form or another.

    So, by the logic of many people, we really need to outlaw tobacco.
    The virtue of spirit has no need for thanks or approval. Only the certain conviction that what has been done is right. -Jor El, as played by Marlon Brando

  17. #17
    esfisher's Avatar
    esfisher is offline Non-Anarchist, Non-Drug Using Libertarian
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhino View Post
    So, by the logic of many people, we really need to outlaw tobacco.
    If we take the popular assumption that pot is a gateway drug, then we also have to admit that the illegality of pot has not prevented it from becoming such (Pot being a gateway drug even though it is illegal).

    Therefor, it can be assumed that the legality of tobacco will have little effect on whether or not it is a gateway drug. In fact, making tobacco illegal might significantly increase marijuana usage, since someone performing the illegal activity of smoking a cigarette will likely see no additional legal danger in smoking a joint.

  18. #18
    FTL_Ian's Avatar
    FTL_Ian is offline Professional Iconoclast
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhino View Post
    So, by the logic of many people, we really need to outlaw tobacco.
    There are actually fools in politics out there pushing for exactly that. That would instantly turn a lot of cops into "criminals"!
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