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  1. #1
    Ryan's Avatar
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    Speeders Fight Back

    Did anyone see this last night? It was hilarious!!! Do people really try to get out of tickets like that?

    For those who didn't catch it, let's see who can guess the verdicts.

    The first person was a high school kid who claimed that he was unfairly targeted because his car is so nice. Also said he was unfairly targeted because he had a mohawk at the time. It was an early '90s honda with some white wheels on it. His main defense was that he was a straight A student and therefore couldn't have been speeding.

    Second was a woman caught doing 90 in a 70. Claimed she was just going with the flow of traffic, and her defense was that if she had to get a ticket, the police should have more cars on the road and stop every person speeding. Since they didn't, she shouldn't have to pay her ticket.

    Third was a guy caught doing 91 in a 70. He was on vacation at the time, so he drove 11 hours back to fight the ticket. His defense was that his car was unfairly singled out because it was red. He brought statistics showing that bright red cars are picked out more often and receive a more emotional response than any other color. (His car is DARK maroon, almost brown)

    Fourth was a guy who faced 7 different tickets. 1 for unsafe start (peeling out), 1 for speeding, 1 for window tint, 1 for no drivers side mirror, 1 for modified exhaust, and 2 other equipment violations I can't recall. His defense was that the officers (oh yeah, these were from 2 different stops 11 days apart) "had a vindictive against me". Claimed that they must get a "hard-on" seeing his pimped out car. Once again it was a piece of junk. Half primer, half white, wheels with no hubcaps, peeling tint, and a rigged exhaust. Both officers testified that he was Agressive and Hostile.

    Finally an elderly man who was ticketed for 90 in a 70. He admitted that he sets his cruise at 78 but said he was fighting the amount on the ticket, not that he was speeding. He presented evidence showing that he traveled 10 miles in 14 minutes based on the time on the ticket and a toll booth record.


    So what do you think?












    1. Guilty
    2. Guilty
    3. Guilty
    4. Guilty on all counts (3 points, $755 fine)
    5. Innocent!

    I thought at the time that he presented a solid case. Now that I think about it, wouldn't the time on the ticket be after the officer has stopped, made contact, and begun writing the citation? So he actually covered those 10 miles much faster. LEO's can you help me out?
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  2. #2
    jmur5074's Avatar
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    The time that I put on the ticket, is the time I initiate the stop, not the time I'm writing the ticket. When I call out the traffic stop, dispatch makes a call for service, which records the time of the stop.


    I didn't see the show, but it sounds like something I'd be interested in. What channel/time is it on?
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan View Post

    I thought at the time that he presented a solid case. Now that I think about it, wouldn't the time on the ticket be after the officer has stopped, made contact, and begun writing the citation? So he actually covered those 10 miles much faster. LEO's can you help me out?
    I missed the show. Wish I would have caught it.

    As for the ticket time, I know here for example, we record the approximate time of violation. For that, we utilize the time we actually called out the stop which is generally no more than 10-30 seconds after we notice the violation. If it is more, we notate it in our notes.

    As far as the tollbooth thing, I still don't think that helps the guy's case. Let's do the math. 14 miles in 10 minutes, 1.4 miles per minute. This translates to 84 miles per hour, which makes the guy's 78 mph cruise claim a bunch of shit in the first place. Also, there's nothing in the summons to suggest that he was going 90 all the way through the 14 miles...He could have been doing 78 for a while with traffic, followed by 90 when he wasn't paying attention, etc. 84 miles per hour over would more or less be his AVERAGE speed over 14 miles, not his constant speed. I'm surprised the judge made the verdict he did.

    ETA: Oops on my math. 10 miles, 14 minutes is an average speed of 42 mph. Still bunk on his cruise control theory. Again, Just because he had an average speed of 42 doesn't mean that he couldn't ahve been doing as high as 90 at some point.
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  4. #4
    Ryan's Avatar
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    I hadn't done the math on my own yet, but he said it averaged 71 MPH. I agree though, he could have averaged 70 going 40 half of the time, and 100 the other half.

    It is on TruTV Thursdays at 8:30 and again at 11:30 I believe
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by 121Traffic View Post
    I'm surprised the judge made the verdict he did.
    I'm not.
    Most of our circuit court judges are decent however we have 1 or 2 that can be dipsticks from time to time. One of them will throw out lidar cites if the distance was over 1000ft.
    For some reason he thinks the speed of light is less accurate over that distance.
    Maybe this one just felt sorry for the old man....

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    Ryan's Avatar
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    Maybe. The whole things seems a little set-up. Almost every defendant had a posterboard of their "case" and they looked like elementary school projects. I just can't imagine people really doing that, it seemed like the producers wanted more to the show
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
    Maybe. The whole things seems a little set-up. Almost every defendant had a posterboard of their "case" and they looked like elementary school projects. I just can't imagine people really doing that, it seemed like the producers wanted more to the show
    Ive seen the show one time. Its more about ratings then about reality justice.
    I wouldn't doubt it if the show encourages them to go to court and fight the ticket. In exchange the producers probably help them prepare their crap defense and pay their fine if found guilty.
    I don't know why some departments agree to host theses guys.

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  8. #8
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    The time I write on the ticket is the time of the offense. I would have guessed guilty for all of the cases. I've never surprised anymore when people plead not guilty and put up an inane defense. One of the most common "defenses" is the person admits speeding but not as much as I wrote on the ticket (ex: ticket for 80/55 and they claim they were only going 65/55) or they claim that they did do the violation but think I couldn't have seen it. One woman claimed that she didn't see me parked on the shoulder, therefore I couldn't have seen her!? I haven't lost any trials yet, and some defendants actually seem shocked when the judge finds them guilty after admitting during sworn testimony that they violated the law.
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  9. #9
    Ryan's Avatar
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    I was curious about that as well, the guy admitted to speeding on a regular basis including that day. He was arguing that he was not going the rate on the ticket. Is it an all or none for the judge, or can they still find them guilty for a lesser speed/fine?
    "The inherent vice of Capitalism is the unequal sharing of its blessings; the inherent vice of Socialism is the equal sharing of its miseries." -Winston Churchill

  10. #10
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    Am I mistaken about that last case where the guy was found not-guilty? I thought that the reason the judge threw it out was because the cop "estimated" the speed at 90, and did not have it on any kind of radar/laser/etc., and he did not pace the car at 90 either. If that's the case, then it actually makes sense that he was found not guilty, except for one thing......the guy admitted in court, under oath, that he was speeding. Not at the speed the cop said, but at a speed that was illegal. He should have been found guilty just for that admission. Our judge here is a "loophole" judge like that though. But then again, if the cop couldn't show how fast the car was going, he should have never written the ticket in the first place. Maybe he figures if he writes a lot of sketchy tickets, that many will just pay them anyway.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndianaFuzz View Post
    Am I mistaken about that last case where the guy was found not-guilty? I thought that the reason the judge threw it out was because the cop "estimated" the speed at 90, and did not have it on any kind of radar/laser/etc., and he did not pace the car at 90 either. If that's the case, then it actually makes sense that he was found not guilty, except for one thing......the guy admitted in court, under oath, that he was speeding. Not at the speed the cop said, but at a speed that was illegal. He should have been found guilty just for that admission. Our judge here is a "loophole" judge like that though. But then again, if the cop couldn't show how fast the car was going, he should have never written the ticket in the first place. Maybe he figures if he writes a lot of sketchy tickets, that many will just pay them anyway.

    I've written visual estimate speeding tickets before with no problem. We are required to be trained in visual tracking and are expected to be able to visually estimate a vehicles speed +/- 3 mph.
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  12. #12
    CTR man's Avatar
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    Just out of curiosity Ryan, in which states did these violations occur? I bet they were all in Southern CA, which would explain everything. Grrr

    I have watched the show in the past. The Shows name is Speeders, Right? Unfortunately I am without TV service at the moment. I used to watch Court TV / Tru TV all the time.


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  13. #13
    Ryan's Avatar
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    Most of the cases that are in the "Fight Back" series are in Florida. That is where the court is located. The judge's little quip's after each case are nauseatingly bad, and the people are ridiculous, but I still watch. lol
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  14. #14
    IndianaFuzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
    Most of the cases that are in the "Fight Back" series are in Florida. That is where the court is located. The judge's little quip's after each case are nauseatingly bad, and the people are ridiculous, but I still watch. lol
    Yes. they are in the Miami area, or at least the ones on the episode mentioned. I haven't seen any other episodes yet.

    And in reference to the latter part of your post.....yes, I think that as a cop, I am naturally drawn to the stupidity of mankind. I can tell myself how stupid something or someone is, but I still have to check it out. Maybe I like seeing stupid people because it reminds me how smart I am. hehe

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    CTR man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndianaFuzz View Post
    Yes. they are in the Miami area, or at least the ones on the episode mentioned. I haven't seen any other episodes yet.

    And in reference to the latter part of your post.....yes, I think that as a cop, I am naturally drawn to the stupidity of mankind. I can tell myself how stupid something or someone is, but I still have to check it out. Maybe I like seeing stupid people because it reminds me how smart I am. hehe


    Naw, maybe for some, for others its a case of seeing just how stupid, stupid people can be. Its educational and entertaining at the same time.


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    I also estimated quite a few times and never lost a case.


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    I missed that one. But I did see the one where the lady was doing her defense in a song. She brought her guitar and everything. I couldn't help but laugh and the cop in the courtroom was trying so hard not to lose it.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
    I was curious about that as well, the guy admitted to speeding on a regular basis including that day. He was arguing that he was not going the rate on the ticket. Is it an all or none for the judge, or can they still find them guilty for a lesser speed/fine?
    Depends on the court and judge (civil adjudicator). In NY there are different fines for different speeds. Albany sets what the fine are for each offense but I think a lot is left up to the descretion of the Judge. In some of the smaller towns there is more wheeling and dealing and pleaing down. (Fines, points on licenses are all at stake)

  19. #19
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    In our city court in Ohio. We had a judge throw out a stop sign ticket just because he did not think a sign needed to be at the intersection where the ticket was written.

 

 

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