Are prostitution and drug use victimless crimes?

[Hannibal]

NO!!!! Why cause I say so. (note: I am being a lazy fed as usual and don't feel like explaining myself )

What he said.

[Doc_Holliday]

Rhino

I think we are getting off track. In the if drugs were legal world, then maybe my answer to the question would be different. But I dont deal well with fantasy, although some would argue my desire to be a LEO is a fantasy...but I digress, I am dealing with the world as it now stands; and as it stands now, there are definate victims. I can stipulate that if drugs were legal, there may be "safer" versions. But are we really going to applaud the "safer" form of crack, LSD or heroin?? I also am not convinced that legalization would dry up the black market, at least not entirely. The government would attempt to regulate it and tax it. So if you have a junkie who was use to spending $50 bux from the guy on the corner for a few hits of black market quality stuff, then the government comes out with its "new and improved" version, half the kick and twice the price, something tells me mr corner mans buisness will still thrive. As far as prostitution goes, there is a reason I haven't argued that one with you...I HAVE NO IDEA WHO THE VICTIM IS!!......in some forms, such as sex slaves coming from over seas, there is the victim.....but the women in the bunny ranch...well.....I suppose the victim could be me, for having to watch Cathouse, the series...LMAO

Just to wrap up, my issue deals with the illegality. Thats where I draw the line. I go by the old addage : ours is not to wonder why, ours is just to do and die. If those of a higher pay grade choose to make things legal that currently are not, then we will deal with that then.

One more thing, just to get your opinion, do you think those in jaol for drug crimes would otherwise be upstanding citizens? I know not all druggies are hard core murderers, but how many are otherwise Sunday School teachers?

[Hannibal]

If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

[Doc_Holliday]

nice one ronin, I prefer " if ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we would have Christmas every day of the year"...

[Iron Man]

I copied and pasted this from my response in another thread :

How so? Prostitution the victims are many. Everyone from the property owners who's value of their property goes down when their street is taken over by whores. The John that brings the STD that they catch to another partner, the whore herself/himself, and the government for not receiving income tax revenue.

Drug usage is not a victimless crime either. What about the people that are willing and do kill people while shipping drugs in order not to get caught? What about every LEO that has been killed because some druggie did not want to get caught? I could post MANY from www.omdp.org all are victims of drug usage. I'm sure the armed escorts across the Mexican border in to the US to supply the drug user hurts no one *rolls eyes*. Also again the government is a victim because they are not making income tax revenue from the sale and transport of the narcotics.

[OFK]

Rhino

I think we are getting off track. In the if drugs were legal world, then maybe my answer to the question would be different. But I dont deal well with fantasy, although some would argue my desire to be a LEO is a fantasy...but I digress, I am dealing with the world as it now stands; and as it stands now, there are definate victims. I can stipulate that if drugs were legal, there may be "safer" versions. But are we really going to applaud the "safer" form of crack, LSD or heroin?? I also am not convinced that legalization would dry up the black market, at least not entirely. The government would attempt to regulate it and tax it. So if you have a junkie who was use to spending $50 bux from the guy on the corner for a few hits of black market quality stuff, then the government comes out with its "new and improved" version, half the kick and twice the price, something tells me mr corner mans buisness will still thrive. As far as prostitution goes, there is a reason I haven't argued that one with you...I HAVE NO IDEA WHO THE VICTIM IS!!......in some forms, such as sex slaves coming from over seas, there is the victim.....but the women in the bunny ranch...well.....I suppose the victim could be me, for having to watch Cathouse, the series...LMAO

Just to wrap up, my issue deals with the illegality. Thats where I draw the line. I go by the old addage : ours is not to wonder why, ours is just to do and die. If those of a higher pay grade choose to make things legal that currently are not, then we will deal with that then.

One more thing, just to get your opinion, do you think those in jaol for drug crimes would otherwise be upstanding citizens? I know not all druggies are hard core murderers, but how many are otherwise Sunday School teachers?

If drugs were legal, then what would the illegal immigrants do for cash flow?

[Doc_Holliday]

I suppose they could always become pimps or hoes??? LMAO

[Hannibal]

I suppose they could always become pimps or hoes??? LMAO

But then they would be displacing U.S. workers.

[TheOldRhino]

You can say what you want about my viewpoint, but the fact remains no one has answered my question satisfactorily. In an armed robbery, rape, murder, etc- I can tell you who the victim is. But none of you have, directly stated who the victim is if I sat at home and snorted a line of coke or paid for a prostitute.

If you have trouble wrapping your mind around the concept of legalizing these laws, consider where they are legal like in Nevada where prostitution is legal. If I were to go to Nevada and visit a cathouse, who is the victim?

I copied and pasted this from my response in another thread :

How so? Prostitution the victims are many. Everyone from the property owners who's value of their property goes down when their street is taken over by whores. The John that brings the STD that they catch to another partner, the whore herself/himself, and the government for not receiving income tax revenue.

Again, let's put the scenario in a location where prostitution is legal. You've pointed out who the victims are in loitering, trespassing, and tax evasion. But not in prostitution.

STDs? So if I go out to a club and pick up some slut who give it up freely and gives me and STD, then I can press criminal charges? That's what you're saying.

Drug usage is not a victimless crime either. What about the people that are willing and do kill people while shipping drugs in order not to get caught?

Okay, so we can identify the victim of murder. Very good.

What about every LEO that has been killed because some druggie did not want to get caught?

Again, victim of murder. Personally, I don't give two shits why some dirtbag kills a cop. Regardless of their excuse, if you do it, then you've punched your own ticket.

But again, this arguement is perpetuating itself. We can go in the circle all day.

Yes, it's a crime. I agree. But it's one that has no victim. The only way we can establish the validity of this claim is to delve into the hypothetical. If you can't grasp this, then simply stay out of the arguement until you can, please. Clever snips to my comments are funny, but they aren't constructive. It's an attempt to dodge my questions. I have, and I am willing to, answer every question that is thrown my way in exploring this issue further.

I'm not unreasonable on this. I simply ask that if you want to debate the issue, you be the same.

I could post MANY from www.omdp.org all are victims of drug usage.

No, you can post many victim of murder.

I'm sure the armed escorts across the Mexican border in to the US to supply the drug user hurts no one *rolls eyes*. Also again the government is a victim because they are not making income tax revenue from the sale and transport of the narcotics.

Victims of smuggling and tax evasion. Not drug use or prostitution.

[Lizzy]

I have no problem with the legalization of prostitution if it is controlled by the government. I think that Nevada does a good job with the healthcare regulations.

Let's face it. Prostitution is the world's oldest profession. As long as it is controlled. Why not just let things be.

Lizzy

[HardNoseBull]

First off I think that prostitution should be legal, and run similiar to Holland, or the chicken ranches of Nevada, mandatory blood testing and regulation of the brothel. I think we all know that street walking leads and contribues to crime. They(drugs and prostitution) are married so to speak most street hookers are crack whores, I have met a lot of pimps who deal drugs. From drugs we now have B@E's, Murders, Assaults, etc, we all know what a junkie will do to feed the habit. From prostititution we provide easier targest for serial killers, lets look at how many killers go after hookers just because soceity forgets about them. Also how many hookers are assaulted just because a john can get away with it. There is no argument that will change my mind on this topic, Drugs and illicit sex provide a veritable cornocopia of crimes, non which are victimless. I have worked on the job long enough to know, there are no such things as victimless crimes.

[TXCharlie]

One of the problems of prostitution is emotional - I'm sorry, there is no such thing as purely casual sex for some guys. Pretty soon, they form attachments and then there's problems - Really serious problems, sometimes.

But you have the same sort of problems when guys form attachments with girlfriends who aren't serious about the guys that they date - Most of you girls and a few of you guys know what I'm talking about.

Jealousy and unrequited love are very ugly, dark, even deadly emotional torture for both parties. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think prostitution increases the instance of that, and screws people up in the head sometimes.

[Doc_Holliday]

Rhino

again, it appears that your opinion is based on what, in your opinion, should be and not what is. the question posed by this thread, as I understood it, was are drug use and prostitution currently victimless crimes, and with all the examples listed by others on here, it is apparent that to most they are not. If things were to change, and one or both were legal, then the outcome may be different. thats just my $.02

[Pedro56]

NO!!!! Why cause I say so. (note: I am being a lazy fed as usual and don't feel like explaining myself )

So typical of a fed. J/K, actually I am not, but for you I am.

I don't think they are victimless crimes, they one leads to the other, which leads to other crimes in the area, some are serious some aren't but, I overall think that those 2 crimes stem a lot of other crimes in a neighborhood.

[nitestokker]

I have no problem with anything someone wants to do in the privacy of their own home as long as they are not endangering others or influencing children. I feel that prostitution should be legalized and regulated in order to prevent disease and abuse. It already exists and will continue to exist, we may as well tax it and make some money from it and keep it safe at the same time. I also believe that marijuana should be legalized and taxed. It is not a gateway drug, it is not nearly as dangerous or addictive as alcohol and cops waste too much time on arrests and citations for weed when they could be investigating more serious crimes.

I personally hate the shit. It gives me a headache. But the worst thing I've ever seen a pothead do in my career is steal Doritos from his passed out roomie.

[Ducky]

With the exception of pot, you can die simply from doing too much of either, even by staying home and not going anywhere. You might not die the first time, or even the 50th, but the more you spin that roulette wheel, the higher your chances get of catching a strong case of dead. Fatal overdose, permanant coma, mental impairment, AIDS, Herpes (if you're lucky!) not to mention the nice things like genital warts, syph, gonorrhea, etc. And if someone keels over, their family and friends are left to pick up the pieces - not to mention the poor bastard who actually has the joy of finding the corpse.

[Iron Man]

The major issues is HOW the dope is getting in. Drug traffickers will stop at nothing to protect their shipment and will kill LEOs to protect it.

Also, what about your family? If you have kids or a spouse they will be effected. Someone somewhere down the line is being a victim.

[nitestokker]

The major issues is HOW the dope is getting in. Drug traffickers will stop at nothing to protect their shipment and will kill LEOs to protect it.

Also, what about your family? If you have kids or a spouse they will be effected. Someone somewhere down the line is being a victim.

By that logic, then everyone who drinks alcohol, smokes a cigarette or eats a cheeseburger is creating victims because of their behavior. That is fucking stupid!

My point is simple. You make decisions that determine your own fate and therefore NO ONE is to blame but YOU. (and we may as well make some tax $$ off of you before you kick off)

[Iron Man]

By that logic, then everyone who drinks alcohol, smokes a cigarette or eats a cheeseburger is creating victims because of their behavior. That is fucking stupid!

Jeez thats taking it to an unreasonable extreme. The Mexican military is actually escorting drug shipments in our country. Thats a threat to border patrol agents and US citizens.


But USING narcotics, you are helping the market for it. Frequent users of narcotics almost universally commit other crimes to feed their addictions.

Its the larger picture people have a problem with not the one person that gets high.

While the officers may be victims of murder, its the drug trade that created the situation.

[TheOldRhino]

The major issues is HOW the dope is getting in. Drug traffickers will stop at nothing to protect their shipment and will kill LEOs to protect it.

Okay. Again, you are mentioning other crimes. If they were smuggling cotton candy into the US and killing LEOs- would that make a difference to you somehow? I know it wouldn't make one with me.

Also, what about your family? If you have kids or a spouse they will be effected. Someone somewhere down the line is being a victim.

What about them? Family members are already effected by alocohol in this fashion. So is alcohol abuse a victimful non-crime?

Humor me, for God sakes! "Someone" is the victim is a vague answer. In the scenario I provided- who is the victim?!?!?

Jeez thats taking it to an unreasonable extreme. The Mexican military is actually escorting drug shipments in our country. Thats a threat to border patrol agents and US citizens.

All the more reason to legalize dope.

But USING narcotics, you are helping the market for it. Frequent users of narcotics almost universally commit other crimes to feed their addictions.

Why do I have the feeling I'm talking to myself? These are seperate crimes. People also commit crimes to feed themselves. So should we make food illegal too?

Its the larger picture people have a problem with not the one person that gets high.

Okay, so why is one person getting high illegal? Where is the victim in one person getting high? You points only strengthen my arguement and point out how ridiciulous prohibition is.

I really am bothered by the fact that no one has still answered my question simply. 29 people so far have voted that there is a victim by me snorting a line of coke- but not one has told me who that vicitm is. Is it me? Is it Bea Arthur? Is it the pizza delivery guy? Who, dammit?!?!?

If I want to buy a hooker, who is the victim?

Not one person so far has voted that agrees with me? Are you all so easily led? Are you all so brainwashed by Nancy Reagan?

Hell, even one person said "because I said so". Great answer. I hope you don't vote. This thread alone proves why voting should be restricted.

Think, people! I know you can do it! Tell me who the victim is!