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  1. #141
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    BigDawg is offline K-9 Officer
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    So if the father selling drugs to provide a better life for his family is ok, then I guess when he breaks into your house WHILE YOUR GONE and taking ALL your shit is ok too. Great let us know where you live and we will send some over for you. Bet if he stole your car while it was parked would be ok also, so let us know what you drive. Remember shit for brains you said it was ok. Hey what if he sells the drugs to your kids and other kids, is that ok too???

    Another thing I have NEVER pulled my gun unless my life or the life of an innocent third person was in danger. So me coming to enforce the fine imposed by a judge and you refusing, no I wouldnt pull my gun to get you to comply. I would either spray you or Tase you into complying. But rest assured I wouldnt pull my gun.


    Now finally if your not happy with the laws then elect someone else. Politicians make the laws, LE enforce the laws. Next if you dont like the policy of your Police Dept. talk to the Chief and the city council, not the Police officer on the street.

    Next dont make accusations, or comments your not willing to back up. Several have agreed, myself included, to meet you as you asked. Also I will put my driving skills up against you any day any where. Just be careful what you ask for, and you might want to know who you are challenging befre you do it. Do some homework before you answer.
    "An Unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." Jeff Cooper


    Some people are meant to be the police......Some people are meant to call the police!!!

    "Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it."
    -Ronald Reagan


    " I believe that forgiving them (Terrorist) is God's function. OUR job is to arrange the meeting."
    General Norman Schwartzkopf

    Not all Muslims are Terrorists, but all Terrorists are Muslim.
    (author unknown)


    The statements posted by BigDawg DO NOT reflect the opinions, views, policies, or procedures of the author's employing agency. These statements are the personal opinions of BigDawg only, thereby releasing my agency of any liability, or involvement in anything posted under the user name of BigDawg. The opinions expressed by BigDawg are protected by the 1st Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. BigDawg’s messages are intended to invoke thought and discussion among the "Officer Resources" forum community and may not necessarily reflect the opinion of the author. BigDawg’s posts and any attachments are intended for an adult audience (18+) and may contain strong language, sexual content, nudity, violence, and may be graphic in nature. Some material may be considered offensive; reader discretion is advised. Please note that many of BigDawg’s posts are intended for entertainment value only. BigDawg’s posts are not intended to be used where prohibited by law. Furthermore, BigDawg's posts, and any attachments, may contain information covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, and is confidential and proprietary in nature. If you are not the intended recipient, please be advised that you are legally prohibited from retaining, using, copying, distributing, or otherwise disclosing this information in any manner.

  2. #142
    gozling's Avatar
    gozling is offline the gene pool could use a little chlorine
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFighter2 View Post
    If you don't give me your wallet I will shoot you. Listen dumb ass, it's not that I am shooting you, it's that you are making me shoot you by not giving me your wallet, so it's your fault. It's not that hard to follow, the use of the gun is up to you.

    This is what you are telling me correct. Nothing you can say can change the fact that if I refuse to let you TAKE my property or my self you will kill me.
    you are the biggest trip ive ever been on man!
    buh bye
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  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ducky View Post
    If guns are that bad and only used as a tool of force, why are you constantly bragging about being a CWP holder? By using your logic above, only 'thugs' need to carry.
    The INITIATION of force is always wrong. The use of force in self defense of life, or property (which is a product of your life) is always OK. Nothing I have said here has contradicted this ideal. I carry a gun to defend myself or my property or my loved ones from the INITIATION of force. I have NEVER used my gun to initiate force against another, to control him or take his property or otherwise. I have also never said that guns are bad or used only for force. I said that guns are used by police to initiate force on a regular basis and that they are always the threat at the end of the line if you refuse to give the police your life (jail) or you property (fines, asset forfeiture etc.) If you don't understand that there is no hope for you.

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFighter2 View Post
    He has no legal obligation to cooperate with the police
    If school management asks the kid to leave because he doesn't have any college ID with him, then he is required to leave.

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFighter2 View Post
    Refusing to help is his right and it is the job of the police at that point to carry him out of there. They decided to torture him into submission. Very, very wrong.
    The taser allows the police to inflict severe pain without inflicting injury. The kid had a choice to leave on his own two feet or to stay and receive extreme pain.

  5. #145
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    You have protested every thing that has been post. How can order be kept without punishment? You are against everything as far as I can see. What is it you do believe in? You say you are not going to pay a speeding ticket, you strongly protest military and police, and punishment at all. I am so confussed, and I am wondering if you could clear anything up for us? I am getting the feeling you just love to protest every possible thing that can be protested.
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  6. #146
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    So if the father selling drugs to provide a better life for his family is ok, then I guess when he breaks into your house WHILE YOUR GONE and taking ALL your shit is ok too. Great let us know where you live and we will send some over for you. Bet if he stole your car while it was parked would be ok also, so let us know what you drive.
    You must understand that stealing property has a victim, the owner of the property. Breaking into a house is a crime with a victim, the owner of the house. Selling a product to a person who is buying it by their own free will at a price they deem acceptable is an action without a victim. Please tell me you can at least understand that.

    Hey what if he sells the drugs to your kids and other kids, is that ok too???
    If the sale of drugs was legal my kids would have to buy it from a store, which would check IDs and make that purchase a lot more difficult to make. As of now if my kids were to buy drugs from a drug dealer is would mostly be a failure on my part to teach them not to use drugs and watch them carefully enough to know if they were. It wouldn't say much for the moral integrity of the drug dealer. There are legal danger out there for my hypothetical kids as well, such as cigarettes and alcohol, but because they are legal and regulated it is less of a worry to me.

    Another thing I have NEVER pulled my gun unless my life or the life of an innocent third person was in danger. So me coming to enforce the fine imposed by a judge and you refusing, no I wouldnt pull my gun to get you to comply. I would either spray you or Tase you into complying. But rest assured I wouldnt pull my gun.
    If the spray or the tase didn't work? If I still defended my property and my life from the theft? The gun. The gun is always at the end of the line. Even if it were not, you are still USING FORCE to steal my property or my life.

    Now finally if your not happy with the laws then elect someone else. Politicians make the laws, LE enforce the laws. Next if you dont like the policy of your Police Dept. talk to the Chief and the city council, not the Police officer on the street.
    Elect who? The democrats or republicans? They are just different ways to have the same big government police state. No matter which one you elect you get the same outcome. I do vote libertarian, but the republicans and the democrats have passed laws that prevent them from being on the ballot and participating in debate. Sounds fair huh?

    Next dont make accusations, or comments your not willing to back up. Several have agreed, myself included, to meet you as you asked. Also I will put my driving skills up against you any day any where. Just be careful what you ask for, and you might want to know who you are challenging befre you do it. Do some homework before you answer.
    If you are in New England and you can think of a way to assure me you aren't going to show up with your boys in blue and some new bracelets, and you can come up with a controlled race then you are on. I am up for competition as long as there is sportsmanship and no foul play.

  7. #147
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    So you believe that police should be disband and everyone should carry their own gun and take care of their own property and persons right? No one to enforce law and order. Wild west style correct?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimebytes2 View Post
    I'm curious about something. Now that we know how you truly feel about LEO's, tell us how you feel about those who support LEO's. And, please, whatever you do, don't disappoint me. It would be to your advantage NOT to disappoint ole' CB2! Go for it. Now's your chance to tell me how you really feel! I'm waiting...
    Those who support police are probably close to a cop who is actually a good guy (one in a million shot) or need to do their homework and see that those who support out laws are only hurting this country and helping to create more unnecessary laws.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LAW DOG View Post
    So you believe that police should be disband and everyone should carry their own gun and take care of their own property and persons right? No one to enforce law and order. Wild west style correct?
    Wrong. I believe cops should protect citizen from the initiation of force. I believe government should be minimal and that it's ONLY purpose would be to protect citizens from the initiation of force and to punish those who initiate it.

  10. #150
    BigDawg's Avatar
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    I will be in New England in a few weeks for x-mas. And trust me even though you have no respect for my profession I always play fair. I dont like cheaters one reason Im in this profession, criminals are cheaters in the game of life. I dont steal property and life, I follow the orders of a judge when it comes to that. If a judge orders you to pay a fine or to be locked up then I enforce it. Cant you see that its NOT the police taking your property. There is very very little that we do that were not following "orders." If the orders are from a judge, r the laws of the state or federal government then we are following orders. And frankly a law is a law, I dont make them, and I might not agree with them, but I have to follow them and enforce them its my job.

    A banker might have a set of standards to give a loan. Someone comes in that is a good person but doesnt come to those standards and he has to say no, its his job. He didnt make the standards and might not like them, but his job is to enforce them and live by them.

    If we didnt have police at all, how do you think is would be like in society today? If people just used vigilante justice. Is this what you want?? Im not saying police dont make mistakes, were human of course we do. And Im not saying our judicial system is perfect, no its not. But buddy its one of the best systems Ive seen out there, and frankly its the only one we have. So we as a society have to live with it until we can come up with something better.
    "An Unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." Jeff Cooper


    Some people are meant to be the police......Some people are meant to call the police!!!

    "Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it."
    -Ronald Reagan


    " I believe that forgiving them (Terrorist) is God's function. OUR job is to arrange the meeting."
    General Norman Schwartzkopf

    Not all Muslims are Terrorists, but all Terrorists are Muslim.
    (author unknown)


    The statements posted by BigDawg DO NOT reflect the opinions, views, policies, or procedures of the author's employing agency. These statements are the personal opinions of BigDawg only, thereby releasing my agency of any liability, or involvement in anything posted under the user name of BigDawg. The opinions expressed by BigDawg are protected by the 1st Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. BigDawg’s messages are intended to invoke thought and discussion among the "Officer Resources" forum community and may not necessarily reflect the opinion of the author. BigDawg’s posts and any attachments are intended for an adult audience (18+) and may contain strong language, sexual content, nudity, violence, and may be graphic in nature. Some material may be considered offensive; reader discretion is advised. Please note that many of BigDawg’s posts are intended for entertainment value only. BigDawg’s posts are not intended to be used where prohibited by law. Furthermore, BigDawg's posts, and any attachments, may contain information covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, and is confidential and proprietary in nature. If you are not the intended recipient, please be advised that you are legally prohibited from retaining, using, copying, distributing, or otherwise disclosing this information in any manner.

  11. #151
    LAW DOG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFighter2 View Post
    Those who support police are probably close to a cop who is actually a good guy (one in a million shot) or need to do their homework and see that those who support out laws are only hurting this country and helping to create more unnecessary laws.
    So no laws. wow any thing goes we should move back to the stone age law of nature only? What is your vision of America?
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  12. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFighter2 View Post
    Wrong. I believe cops should protect citizen from the initiation of force. I believe government should be minimal and that it's ONLY purpose would be to protect citizens from the initiation of force and to punish those who initiate it.
    Most of that is what we believe. We are protecting people by setting speed limits and you are against paying the fines for that. The kid that was tazed he refused to show ID on someone else property and then so on until he was tazed, again you are against that. We're running in a circle chaseing our tails here.
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  13. #153
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    One of the many flaws I see in your libertarian view is YOU get to deem what laws are worthy of enforcement, and which are not. You are truelly more of an anarchist than a believer in liberty. The student in question was infringing on the rights and freedoms of every other student in the library, as well as the institution itself. Therefor, by libertarian standards, he was open to the use of force.
    quoted from wikipedia: "Libertarians do not oppose force used in response to initiatory aggressions such as violence, fraud or trespassing." By refusing to show his ID, the person in question was tresspassing. Game, Set and Match.....wiggle your way out of this

  14. #154
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    ok so Police should be only for the inititiation of force. So if a crime is committed but no force is used then its ok?? I walk into a convienence store and while the cashier is on the floor I take the cash register and leave, is it ok. What if its only some steaks to feed my poor family?

    What type of force are you not advocating?? what is ok??

    You seem to say speeding is ok. What if the speeder hits your car and destroys it and has no insurance?? IS that ok?
    "An Unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." Jeff Cooper


    Some people are meant to be the police......Some people are meant to call the police!!!

    "Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it."
    -Ronald Reagan


    " I believe that forgiving them (Terrorist) is God's function. OUR job is to arrange the meeting."
    General Norman Schwartzkopf

    Not all Muslims are Terrorists, but all Terrorists are Muslim.
    (author unknown)


    The statements posted by BigDawg DO NOT reflect the opinions, views, policies, or procedures of the author's employing agency. These statements are the personal opinions of BigDawg only, thereby releasing my agency of any liability, or involvement in anything posted under the user name of BigDawg. The opinions expressed by BigDawg are protected by the 1st Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. BigDawg’s messages are intended to invoke thought and discussion among the "Officer Resources" forum community and may not necessarily reflect the opinion of the author. BigDawg’s posts and any attachments are intended for an adult audience (18+) and may contain strong language, sexual content, nudity, violence, and may be graphic in nature. Some material may be considered offensive; reader discretion is advised. Please note that many of BigDawg’s posts are intended for entertainment value only. BigDawg’s posts are not intended to be used where prohibited by law. Furthermore, BigDawg's posts, and any attachments, may contain information covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, and is confidential and proprietary in nature. If you are not the intended recipient, please be advised that you are legally prohibited from retaining, using, copying, distributing, or otherwise disclosing this information in any manner.

  15. #155
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    FreedomFighter2
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    “He has no legal obligation to cooperate with the police, “



    By law he does, everything else is moot.


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  16. #156
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    How long do you give him before A.)freedom fighter 3 or B.)forunte 2 ?shit he beat me to it.
    Last edited by LAW DOG; 11-25-06 at 04:26 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bird1 View Post
    freedomfighter u cry for this student who wasn't smart enough to do what he was told. u and the media cry for this poor guy who got totured by the thugs in blue. two years ago i lost a friend and acadamy classmate to a drunk driver while he was on the job who crys for his wife and 4 kids, you? on this job we deal with alot of things you will never understand unless u been there and u know what your yelling about. everynight at work i face my demons, but what do you do? you are safe behind your computer leave the hard work to the real men and women in blue. may be this video that was posted a while back can sum it up for you...http://www.ktvu.com/video/9591734/index.html
    I really do feel for any family who has lost a member. It is nothing to joke about and truly tragic. But are you crying for the family of Sal Culosi Jr. who was shot (on "accident" while handcuffed) by a police officer after being raiding para-military style because he was playing poker with friends in his basement. I don't like the idea of people dying cop or otherwise, but I am certain that the drunk driver is paying for what he did, yet the cop who shot Dr. Culosi still has a job...

    ok so Police should be only for the inititiation of force. So if a crime is committed but no force is used then its ok?? I walk into a convienence store and while the cashier is on the floor I take the cash register and leave, is it ok. What if its only some steaks to feed my poor family?

    What type of force are you not advocating?? what is ok??
    You would be taking without permission, theft is a forum of force. No matter how poor you family is.

    You seem to say speeding is ok. What if the speeder hits your car and destroys it and has no insurance?? IS that ok?
    That can happen even if he is not speeding...

    One of the many flaws I see in your libertarian view is YOU get to deem what laws are worthy of enforcement, and which are not.
    No, I think it is a no brainer that any laws that remove freedom are counterproductive. Laws should exist only to protect freedom, which was their original intent in America. A libertarian doesn't make laws, a libertarian only protects freedom.

    The student in question was infringing on the rights and freedoms of every other student in the library, as well as the institution itself. Therefor, by libertarian standards, he was open to the use of force.
    quoted from wikipedia: "Libertarians do not oppose force used in response to initiatory aggressions such as violence, fraud or trespassing." By refusing to show his ID, the person in question was tresspassing. Game, Set and Match.....wiggle your way out of this
    Oh, your so clever. I never said he should not have been removed. In fact he was leaving anyway. Although it would make the cops dicks to arrest him while he was leaving that would be within their right to do also. And he would have no right to RESIST that arrest. But resisting MUST not be confused with refusing to HELP. They could have easily carried him out of there, which is exactly what he should have done. A person on private property is obligated to leave if asked to do so, and can be removed with force. The taser was not forcing him to move it was torturing him. A very big difference.

    Most of that is what we believe. We are protecting people by setting speed limits and you are against paying the fines for that. The kid that was tazed he refused to show ID on someone else property and then so on until he was tazed, again you are against that. We're running in a circle chaseing our tails here.
    Again, the police tased him because they like the power trip. As many of you have said, "if he wont cooperate let him ride the lighting..." He could have easily been carried out and then arrest for being a dick and trespassing rather than tortured without cause THEN carried out. That is my problem with the situation, an unnecessary abuse of power.

    So no laws. wow any thing goes we should move back to the stone age law of nature only? What is your vision of America?
    You know that isn't what I said.

    I dont steal property and life, I follow the orders of a judge when it comes to that. If a judge orders you to pay a fine or to be locked up then I enforce it. Cant you see that its NOT the police taking your property. There is very very little that we do that were not following "orders." If the orders are from a judge, r the laws of the state or federal government then we are following orders. And frankly a law is a law, I dont make them, and I might not agree with them, but I have to follow them and enforce them its my job.
    And when he orders you to steal property, you steal it. YOU steal, not the judge. I can see that it IS in fact the police that are taking it, whether acting on orders or not. If the judge orders you to lead a jew into a gas chamber will you do it because it's your job to follow orders? Yes, it's extreme, but where do you draw the line. To me wrong is wrong no matter who tells me to do it.

    A banker might have a set of standards to give a loan. Someone comes in that is a good person but doesnt come to those standards and he has to say no, its his job. He didnt make the standards and might not like them, but his job is to enforce them and live by them.
    Again, in a free market the man who wants the loan can go to any number of banks. If that particular bank is unreasonable it will go out of business where as when you are unreasonable a citizen doesn't have any other choice.

    If we didnt have police at all, how do you think is would be like in society today?
    I already said I support having police, just not the ones we have today enforcing todays very destructive and dangerous laws.

    So we as a society have to live with it until we can come up with something better.
    We had something better, it was called the Bill of Rights. A good portion of your training is how to take advantage of those who don't know their rights and how to trick them into giving them up willingly...


    If you folks would stop banning me I wouldn't have to go through the trouble of making a new SN every time and this conversation would move along faster. If you want to shut people up who disagree so as not to be proven wrong then that is fine, but I think it only helps prove my point.

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    So is freedomfight1,2,&3, fortune and bigsig the same person or is bigsid someone else?
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAW DOG View Post
    How long you give him before A.)freedom fighter 3 or B.)forunte 2 ?shit he beat me to it.
    I have never been fortune, that was somebody else.

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    Persistant arn't you.
    dlefdal said:
    Ummmm, what if I don't like thumbs in my butt?

 

 
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