Should we lower the drinking age?

**CountyFourteen** · 11-29-06, 11:27 AM

I wish we could just get parents to really be parents, it would have a very positive effect on society just to have that happen.

Some 18 year olds are matue enough to drink responsively, some even in their 80's are not mature enough.

I have said it many times to people on the street.....I wouldn't know they were drunk/stoned/or stupid if they just knew how to control themselves.

**FTL_Ian** · 11-29-06, 11:33 AM

LOL

I had a feeling the results on this poll would be more competitive than the drug issue, and sure enough!

Of course, it's really the same issue:

People should be able to make personal consumption choices without fear of arrest.

Enforcement of drinking age laws just pushes teen drinking underground and makes it more dangerous, not to mention fostering resentment, disrespect, and hatred for the police.

Young people will not stop drinking because a party gets broken up and their friends arrested. Enforcement of this law has done NOTHING to stop or retard teen drinking.

For the record, I don't drink. I do care about Liberty for everyone, however, that's why I'm active on this issue too.

**Dudleydoright** · 11-29-06, 11:33 AM

No! Young people are adddicted even more easily than adults. We have enough of our young people, our future, in rehab now. Plus I have no desire to scrape more people off the streets.

**FTL_Ian** · 11-29-06, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by Iron Man

The "Eliminate it entirely, let bars and stores decide who to sell to. "

"Would" take the curiosity out of alcohol and if you could buy it just like Coca-Cola you would eliminate the "forbidden fruit" aspect to alcohol consumption.

So I want to change my vote to that selection after thinking about it more.

If your kids are consuming alcohol and you don't want them to, that should be a parenting issue, not a government one. Just like smoking.

Congrats, Iron Man, you totally get it. If alcohol were legal for everyone, we would have less teen drinking overall and certainly less dangerous teen drinking. Precisely because of the "forbidden fruit" aspect.

Because it's illegal, drinking as a teen is "bad" and hence exciting! In a society where drinking is allowed at a young age, it becomes old hat and easily understood. Europe is a messed up place in a lot of ways, but their teens certainly are more responsible when it comes to alcohol simply because they grew up with access to it, and therefore take it for granted and understand it better than American teens.

**CountyFourteen** · 11-29-06, 11:44 AM

Ian, I guess you can rename "drugs" to be .... name your Poison. I don't preach because my smoking tobacco is a "drug" if you wish to get that technical (or is that anal) about it.

**BigDawg** · 11-29-06, 11:45 AM

Well then Ian I guess since we cant win any of these "wars" we should just make it all legal and give up.

Lets open our borders to anybody and everybody. You can drink alcohol and take drugs at any age. Terrorists welcome we cant win so come on blow us up, its ok. (arms in homes ssure stopped them on 9-11 huh?) Oh lets see what else should we just give up on??

Lets become like France and wave the white flag at everything and everyone.

**Michelle** · 11-29-06, 11:58 AM

Forbidden fruit...HA!
If Eve wouldn't have broken the law and ate the forbidden fruit, we'd all be walking around naked.
She really screwed that one up for the rest of us.

**CountyFourteen** · 11-29-06, 12:01 PM

Michelle, Eve was not the first woman "made" for adam....the first women was made equal to adam....and he bit**ed at god for making her so......so god made eve to be "submissive" to adam........oh man.........did I get started on this thread in a should someone drink/drug/run amock so that all can be "free" crap thread, lol

**CountyFourteen** · 11-29-06, 12:05 PM

I guess while I'm way off the purpose of this thread.....I would also like to say if people would/could just have common sense......this earth would have a lot of less laws and signs then what it has now...if stupidity was against the law.....we would never have enough jails.

My wife believes that the earth is the "refuse" aka hell aka jail of the universe and that everyone is here because we craped up where we all use to live..........

**CountyFourteen** · 11-29-06, 12:34 PM

Michelle.....I think we need to take your statement further.....I think your really on to something..........

In the garden of eden there was only One law......and someone..was it you Ian???.... who talked eve into breaking the only law there was.........because she didn't feel it was a worth while law???

Yea I'm getting Ridiculous now, disregard the last two posts I have made now, lol and I'll try to get some sleep so I can work tonight.....hmmmm maybe Ian will give me "the approved list of laws" that I SHOULD enforce tonight.......naaaaaaa I'll enforce them all while saving lives and making it safe out there....

**OFK** · 11-29-06, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by BigDawg3533

Well then Ian I guess since we cant win any of these "wars" we should just make it all legal and give up.

Lets open our borders to anybody and everybody. You can drink alcohol and take drugs at any age. Terrorists welcome we cant win so come on blow us up, its ok. (arms in homes ssure stopped them on 9-11 huh?) Oh lets see what else should we just give up on??

Lets become like France and wave the white flag at everything and everyone.

I have yet to read a convincing study or even a convincing argument that would indicate that making drugs legal would be a good thing, in fact the contrary. Driving down prices, making them affordable, and making it a more open market so to speak, sure it sounds good to the person who wants the freedom to do so, it's liberating to some, but what about those people who are cashing in on this multi billion dollar industry? The drugs lords, mafia, and the big criminals behind this. What happens to them? Are they just going to go away? Retire to some Island and sip margaritas on the beach? Does this put them out of business? Of course not, and I don't think they will sit by and accept the fact they are losing thousands of dollars per minute either. Now lets think about what other criminal activity do we have underground that makes a profit? Terrorism, Porn, Kiddie porn, human trafficking, other violent crimes...are we ready to face an even bigger explosion in any of these areas and are we ready to face even more heinous criminal activity for profit?

**FTL_Ian** · 11-29-06, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by OFK

I have yet to read a convincing study or even a convincing argument that would indicate that making drugs legal would be a good thing, in fact the contrary.

Read about the consequences of alcohol prohibition. Documented and real. The consequences of prohibition apply regardless of the item prohibited.

Driving down prices, making them affordable, and making it a more open market so to speak, sure it sounds good to the person who wants the freedom to do so, it's liberating to some, but what about those people who are cashing in on this multi billion dollar industry? The drugs lords, mafia, and the big criminals behind this. What happens to them? Are they just going to go away?

They will certainly not like it. This is one of the reasons why ending prohibition is so hard. There are three groups with vested interests in keeping it around:

1. The gangsters. They certainly don't want their obscene profits going away.

2. The DEA. They don't want their cushy jobs going away.

3. The other criminal profiteers like corrupt Sheriffs (you know who you are!) and corrupt cops. They don't want their ability to steal and resell drugs to go away. I'd include the politicians here, but they don't count as humans.

Now lets think about what other criminal activity do we have underground that makes a profit? Terrorism, Porn, Kiddie porn, human trafficking, other violent crimes...are we ready to face an even bigger explosion in any of these areas and are we ready to face even more heinous criminal activity for profit?

Presumption. Legalizing drugs will not increase demand for kiddie porn, and the black market cannot create demand for that product, only supply it.

**Beans** · 11-29-06, 01:22 PM

God, this thread is getting so boring............yes I am a scumbag, power abusing, goose stepping, rights violating, cop. BLAH BLAH BLAH.............(heading falling on keyboard)

**FTL_Ian** · 11-29-06, 01:24 PM

OFK, you've also stumbled onto the most disturbing part of the entire War on Drugs. It's not a war at all. The gangs, DEA, and corrupt cops need each other to ensure their future profits.

The drug cartels have billions of dollars at their disposal. Why do you suppose they bother to bribe cops as opposed to just killing them?

Easy: They work together. The DEA protects certain dealers in exchange for the occasional sacrifice of a low level distributor. This way, the DEA or corrupt cops can showcase the occasional "RECORD BUST!" to prove they are doing something, when all they are doing is providing cover to the approved dealers!

I assure you, this is not a conspiracy theory.

**BigDawg** · 11-29-06, 01:30 PM

Oh here we go, not only are we like the Nazi and blindly follow orders. And we ruin lives of such good citizens. But were all corrupt too.

Lets see what else have we been told latley, Im so glad they are here to point out what I am/ I obviously never knew. Im power hungry, I grew up dreaming of the day I could kill someone. I love to tase (torture) everybody. Im robbing America of ALL her freedoms. I should give up on everything that we have no chance of winning at.

Damn Ive got to re-write my job description now. Maybe I can get a raise from it, we all know were money hungry too.

**BigDawg** · 11-29-06, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by FTL_Ian

OFK, you've also stumbled onto the most disturbing part of the entire War on Drugs. It's not a war at all. The gangs, DEA, and corrupt cops need each other to ensure their future profits.

The drug cartels have billions of dollars at their disposal. Why do you suppose they bother to bribe cops as opposed to just killing them?

Easy: They work together. The DEA protects certain dealers in exchange for the occasional sacrifice of a low level distributor. This way, the DEA or corrupt cops can showcase the occasional "RECORD BUST!" to prove they are doing something, when all they are doing is providing cover to the approved dealers!

I assure you, this is not a conspiracy theory.

Ok now prove it. Show me the proof of these accusations!!! And I dont mean from one or two stories of corruption. I will agree there is some corruption, just like in ANY business. But show me where this wide spread corruption joining of hands with criminals is. I want to see this. If you cant provide it I expect a formal appology for this outrage on your show to ALL cops everywhere.

Now Im pissed.

**FTL_Ian** · 11-29-06, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by BigDawg3533

Oh here we go, not only are we like the Nazi and blindly follow orders. And we ruin lives of such good citizens. But were all corrupt too.

Lets see what else have we been told latley, Im so glad they are here to point out what I am/ I obviously never knew. Im power hungry, I grew up dreaming of the day I could kill someone. I love to tase (torture) everybody. Im robbing America of ALL her freedoms. I should give up on everything that we have no chance of winning at.

Damn Ive got to re-write my job description now. Maybe I can get a raise from it, we all know were money hungry too.

Please don't put words in my mouth. I said corrupt cops have a financial interest in continuing the drug war. I did not label all cops as corrupt, that would be ludicrous!

**FTL_Ian** · 11-29-06, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by BigDawg3533

Ok now prove it. Show me the proof of these accusations!!! And I dont mean from one or two stories of corruption. I will agree there is some corruption, just like in ANY business. But show me where this wide spread corruption joining of hands with criminals is. I want to see this. If you cant provide it I expect a formal appology for this outrage on your show to ALL cops everywhere.

I did not allege widespread corruption. However, when corruption takes hold in the upper levels of policing, these things happen. I'm not going to name names of existing corrupt Sheriffs, but there are certainly examples of ones who have been busted in the past. Some steal drugs from dealers and resell them through their deputies. Some import directly and sell through approved dealers. Who better to sell drugs than one of the most powerful men in the county?

Here's a perfect example:

A Virginia sheriff covered up a scheme in which a dozen of his deputies sold seized guns and drugs to the public...
The whole story here: http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/11/02/sh...ted/index.html

Now, that story doesn't suggest collusion between the Sheriff and the gangsters, but I assure you that these things go on. I have reliable sources, who for obvious reasons, I will not name.

**FTL_Ian** · 11-29-06, 01:55 PM

Of course, need I say that without the war on drugs, there would be no incentive for corruption? Murderers and rapists can't corrupt the police, but drug lords sure can!

**BigDawg** · 11-29-06, 01:57 PM

But the way you worded that thread, and saying its not a conspiracy theory, you make it sound like its wide spread. To list this as one of the THREE reasons why the war wont end, also suggest that its wide spread.

Again prove its wide spread or apologize sir. You have insulted me, my brothers, and my profession.