Should we lower the drinking age?

[OFK]

I did not allege widespread corruption. However, when corruption takes hold in the upper levels of policing, these things happen. I'm not going to name names of existing corrupt Sheriffs, but there are certainly examples of ones who have been busted in the past. Some steal drugs from dealers and resell them through their deputies. Some import directly and sell through approved dealers. Who better to sell drugs than one of the most powerful men in the county?

Here's a perfect example:

A Virginia sheriff covered up a scheme in which a dozen of his deputies sold seized guns and drugs to the public...
The whole story here: http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/11/02/sh...ted/index.html

Now, that story doesn't suggest collusion between the Sheriff and the gangsters, but I assure you that these things go on. I have reliable sources, who for obvious reasons, I will not name.

I just saw the two words Virginia and Sheriff and got my laugh for the day. Thanks

Anyhow, they were caught, charged and there were others non law enforcement involved and charged as well. It's a black eye, but like the US Attorney said "You have law enforcement [officers] risking their lives to take these guns off the streets and then a very few members of law enforcement putting them right back out there."

[FTL_Ian]

I would predict that if you did away with all the rules, regulations, and laws that you (Libertarians) wanted to today. In less that 20yrs we would have a government just as large as it is today. Might not be the same laws, but it would be as big, and with just as many laws as today. Because of idiots that are out there. Maybe Im cynical but I see them, along with the members of society that isnt an idiot but has made bad decisions and now they are having to deal with the repercusions.

I agree. Government grows. That's what it does. That's why we need to be eternally vigilant and elect principled liberty minded people to cut it down to size. Or better yet eliminate it entirely, and replace its services with voluntarily funded private agencies. (Please don't ask about this, I don't have time to get into it! Call the show if you want to know more.)

[OFK]

Alright, why was this thread placed in the Holding Cell? Was it not a legitimate question?

I think that they have created an FTL_Ian feature that automatically detects and reroutes threads you post in into the Holding cell. Of course that is not a conspiracy theory or anything.

[TheOldRhino]

Ian,

Sorry- to kind of drag this back on topic. But you mean to tell me in your idea of a perfect world, it would be perfectly okay for a 9 year old kid to walk into a store a buy a 12 pack of beer?

[CountyFourteen]

I don't doubt it was a legitimate question......only doubt if it was a legitimate person.........

[Coloradocop]

I'd include the politicians here, but they don't count as humans.

Finally, Ian, we've found some solid ground we can all agree on

On a side note, am I the only one noticing that every thread goes back to drug legalization lately? I thought we were talking about alcohol in this one?

As for alcohol, I can see an argument for the blanket elimination of drinking ages (it works in Europe). If you grew up with it you wouldn't have the drive to get it illegally and binge, just because you weren't supposed to have it (the "forbidden fruit" idea someone mentioned previously). When I was growing up I think this led to more teen drinking than anything else... the rebelious teenage angst. Plus, alcohol use in moderation isn't necessarily bad for you. Despite the immediate effects, moderate alcohol use doesn't typically lead to any long term health problems... many studies have even shown health benefits to the "glass of red wine a day" in a diet.

Otherwise, if we do not adjust alcohol laws to that extent, I firmly stand by the idea of having one age to define adulthood ... whatever the age is, I think we should have the same age for drinking, military enlistment, firearms purchase, etc. I think it is a bit insane that an 18 year old can be considered responsible enough to buy an elephant gun, but can't be considered responsible enough to buy 3.2 beer.

I'm not going to hijack this thread anymore into a drug thread than it has already become, but suffice it to say that I don't think all illicit substances were created equal. We don't have to have an "all or nothing" approach towards legalization. I advocate the above argument for alcohol, but have many reasons for not saying that crack and heroin should be the same... We could always start the "Ian hates Laws" thread to address these issues

[BigDawg]

Ian you have finally nailed it.......you and I agree!!!!

You answered my last thread and said we need to vote in like minded people and change the laws.

That is what we have been telling you. If you dont like the laws, alcohol, drugs etc. Then vote and change the laws by changing the elected officials. Until that is done I will continue to enforce the current laws that are on the "books".

[FTL_Ian]

Ian,

Sorry- to kind of drag this back on topic. But you mean to tell me in your idea of a perfect world, it would be perfectly okay for a 9 year old kid to walk into a store a buy a 12 pack of beer?

In my perfect world, it would be up to the store to determine policy. If most parents don't want their kids buying beer, you can bet the store that sells it is going to get a boycott and the owner socially ostracized.

By the way, before drug prohibition, parents sent kids to the store to buy bottles of cocaine and heroin.

[Piggybank Cop]

In my perfect world, it would be up to the store to determine policy. If most parents don't want their kids buying beer, you can bet the store that sells it is going to get a boycott and the owner socially ostracized.

By the way, before drug prohibition, parents sent kids to the store to buy bottles of cocaine and heroin.

You sir need to get off what ever you are on.

[FTL_Ian]

Then vote and change the laws by changing the elected officials. Until that is done I will continue to enforce the current laws that are on the "books".

Eventually, the books will start to have laws that even you find absurd. I wonder if you will enforce them. These laws I'm about to suggest are actually laws that some people are pushing for, so these scenarios COULD happen in an America near you:

1. Your state bans restaurants from using oils with trans fats. You may like tasty foods. Do you forcibly shut down non-complying businesses?

2. Your state bans cigarettes. You spot a fellow officer sneaking an illicit cig in the parking lot, do you snitch him out? Will you raid houses over a pack of Marlboros?

3. Homeschooling is banned. Will you arrest scofflaw parents who dare educate their own children?

[FTL_Ian]

You sir need to get off what ever you are on.

I can't turn away from the path of Liberty. That's what I'm on. Start at the top:

http://freetalklive.com/links.php

[Piggybank Cop]

I can't turn away from the path of Liberty. That's what I'm on. Start at the top:

http://freetalklive.com/links.php

Why; we're already at the bottom?

[FTL_Ian]

Why; we're already at the bottom?

If you believe this country is in a state of Liberty, I have a bridge to sell you.

[Motorwaycop]

Speaking as a person where its is legal at 18 to purchase alcohol I can tell you that it is alcohol that is behind most of the problems I have ever encountered in law enforcement.
It is certainly behind most of the random and domestic violence.
Come to a british town on a friday and saturday night. They are a virtual no go zone for families or reasonable people becuase of the drunken behaviour of the young people, and not so young!
Police resources are constantly stretched by their antics and officers and innocent people frequently on the recieving end of brutal assaults.
These kids think it is fun to get off their heads on booze, and yes drugs, then the rest of us have to pick up the pieces.
casualty departments, ambulance staff and police officers all suffer.
Other european countries have a more liberal approach to alcohol but they still suffer the same problems to some degree.
A drink/drugged driver or a drunk with attitude are the same in any language trouble with a capital T.

[Willowdared]

I'm old enough to remember when 18 was the legal age. The Federal Government tied Highway funds to the drinking age, so any state that wanted money needed to change their legal age.

They used to let them drink on the bases after the age was raised, but that was discontinued after someone bitched. There's something deeply wrong about sending someone off to war, and not trusting them with a beer.

[hemicop]

Growing up in NYC the drinking age was 18,learners permits issued at 16 & with Drivers Ed you could get your license at 17. I had no problems with any of it. If you can fight & die for your country or at least handle the multi-million dollar equipment the military uses nowadays there's no PRACTICAL reason 18 year-olds shouldn't be allowed to drink. IMO they're (generally) no more or less responsible than some 40,50, 60 year old that likes to have "a few" after work, and don't even get me started on the "Geritol-for-lunch bunch" that think laws only apply to younger people. Keep in mind ,too that GENERALLY today's 18 yr old is better educated,has seen more & is therefore more mature than when most of us (baby boomers) were 18.

[HardNoseBull]

In Canada, we are allowed to drink at 18. It's really not a big deal. In my opinion if your old enough to fight for your country your old enough to have a beer. But in our province the driving regulations are strict, we have a graduated license program. You can get your leaner license at 14 but you can only have 1 person who is an adult with you. You have to have a class 7 learner for 2 years before you can get class 5 Dl. Also while your first starting out your on probation and if yo have alchohol in your system i you lose you DL. I think for 2 years. In some prov. it's 19 to drink. From my experiance 7years as nighclyb doorman, when it comes to a 18 or 21 year old drinking they are the same. Both can be irresponsible but so can a 40 year old. Age is minimal, they can vote, they can fight, they can be a LEO/CO in Canada, so they might as well be able to enjoy a beer. Just my opinion, I'm sure lots of my brethren to the south will disagree. In the end we will have to agree to disagree. TAKE CARE ALL.

[MonsterMash]

Keep in mind ,too that GENERALLY today's 18 yr old is better educated,has seen more & is therefore more mature than when most of us (baby boomers) were 18.

I have to respectfully disagree with that statement. Yes, kids nowadays are more "educated" than generations before, but overall I think that education makes them dumber. Why? No common sense. No real life experience. They sit back in their institutes of higher learning and spout off shit they read in a book, and generally have no idea of how the real world works. Just because someone is educated doesn't make them smart.

[BigDawg]

Amen MM

I have seen plenty from both sides.

Ive seen people with high eduacation degrees that had absolutly no common sence or strret smarts.

And Ive seen people with alot of common sence and street smarts that didnt go far in school.

Its not the norm, but its not a way off percentage either.