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Thread: Tasers

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    Tasers

    Why do cops use tasers so much even when that have been linked to deaths?

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    Not even an introduction first?

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    I'm sorry, that is poor edict isn't it? I'll go post one.

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    When there's been deaths, its been because of things like the person being all cracked out, having pre-existing medical conditions, or some other external factor such as the head hitting the ground when the guy falls down. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that even one death has been ruled to be caused by the tasing. The fact remains that tasers are by far the most effective tool to safely subdue a suspect. The track record is exceptionally remarkable. Add to that how many lives have been saved because the taser allowed for situations to be resolved without deadly force.
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    Because shooting people who need to be stopped before they hurt someone causes almost certain death, whereas restraining them with Tasers almost NEVER cause deaths.

    For every Taser-related death, there's tens of thousands of cases where they saved lives (usually the life of the suspect, not the life of the cop, because it stopped the situation from escalating into a shooting) .

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    Quote Originally Posted by themastermind View Post
    Why do cops use tasers so much even when that have been linked to deaths?
    Tasers themselves don't directly cause death. You'll find a majority of deaths are from something called "excited delirum". This can be induced by many different factors (drugs, etc).


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    PS - Sleeping, eating, running, wrestling, going on a ride to the hospital, driving home after work, driving to work, swimming, going to church, taking a bath, drinking water... Those are all activities that have been linked to dozens, hundreds or thousands of deaths across across the country.

    Probably the risk of Taser deaths are somewhere between drowning by drinking a glass of water and getting choked on your chicken McNuggets, I suspect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IndianaFuzz View Post
    When there's been deaths, its been because of things like the person being all cracked out, having pre-existing medical conditions, or some other external factor such as the head hitting the ground when the guy falls down. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that even one death has been ruled to be caused by the tasing. The fact remains that tasers are by far the most effective tool to safely subdue a suspect. The track record is exceptionally remarkable. Add to that how many lives have been saved because the taser allowed for situations to be resolved without deadly force.
    I have tried to educate myself a bit on the subject, and I have read of such things like "excited delirium", but wouldn't all of these things play into in custody death, making the taser a contributing factor?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TXCharlie View Post
    Because shooting people who need to be stopped before they hurt someone causes almost certain death, whereas restraining them with Tasers almost NEVER cause deaths.

    For every Taser-related death, there's tens of thousands of cases where they saved lives (usually the life of the suspect, not the life of the cop, because it stopped the situation from escalating into a shooting) .
    Not to be equally sarcastic as your initial response, but why on earth would you use a taser in a lethal force encounter? That would be poor tactics, and a safety issue for you LEOs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by themastermind View Post
    I have tried to educate myself a bit on the subject, and I have read of such things like "excited delirium", but wouldn't all of these things play into in custody death, making the taser a contributing factor?
    No more than the drugs they voluntarily injested to create the problem which brought the taser to use.

    There is a reason that the term is "less lethal" rather than "non lethal".

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    Ultimately, it is the individual's actions that cause them to be tased. I don't know of a single officer that would use the Taser on some poor, innocent person just walking down the street. If, however, that poor innocent person is suddenly intent on causing harm and\or mayhem and becomes a threat to themselves or others, the use of a Taser is justified. A lot of people that would have been shot a few years ago are now able to walk the streets because of the Taser.
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    Well, I don't know the numbers but let's say one in....5,000 tasing's results in death. No, lets make it worse. 1 in 500 tasings results in a death. Just an arbitrary, made up number.

    How many police shootings result in death? Again, I don't know the numbers, but I do know it's far far far greater than 1 in 500.

    I guess if I had the choice I'd rather get tased than shot.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmur5074 View Post
    Well, I don't know the numbers but let's say one in....5,000 tasing's results in death. No, lets make it worse. 1 in 500 tasings results in a death. Just an arbitrary, made up number.

    How many police shootings result in death? Again, I don't know the numbers, but I do know it's far far far greater than 1 in 500.

    I guess if I had the choice I'd rather get tased than shot.
    As would I jmur, but why would the taser be used in a lethal force encounter to begin with? Are the two truly comparable? I have no problem with LEOs using within the confines of the law, the amount of force necessary to get control of a guy. But with all the recent news on the taser, it makes one think that between hands on, spray, and a baton, that method would ultimately be safer.

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    mastermind ,if you are truly wanting to know about taser i recommend going to the taser site and educating yourself about them, people fear what they don't understand, personally i think you are just trying to start something with us, it is ovious you own a computor and can educate yourself without asking us ,but maybe like the news media, you are to lazy to do that and just assume everything you hear or see on t.v. and newspapers are true, they are not. website is taser.com, have a nice day.
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    No. I'm not too lazy. I have already done that, but my assumption is that the manufacturer's website would of course be slanted in favor of their product. After all, they are in the business of selling tasers, of course they would say they are safe. I don't fear the tazer, I just question the safeness of the product, especially since there are so many taser related deaths in the media.

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    Quote Originally Posted by themastermind View Post
    No. I'm not too lazy. I have already done that, but my assumption is that the manufacturer's website would of course be slanted in favor of their product. After all, they are in the business of selling tasers, of course they would say they are safe. I don't fear the tazer, I just question the safeness of the product, especially since there are so many taser related deaths in the media.
    What media do you know that have been killed by tasers?
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    Quote Originally Posted by themastermind View Post
    As would I jmur, but why would the taser be used in a lethal force encounter to begin with? Are the two truly comparable? I have no problem with LEOs using within the confines of the law, the amount of force necessary to get control of a guy. But with all the recent news on the taser, it makes one think that between hands on, spray, and a baton, that method would ultimately be safer.
    The tasers uses are limitless in use of force encounters.

    Example:
    I'm familiar with an incident where a subj. was suicidal, in his apt., and armed with a knife. Phone contact was made and he was eventually coerced into coming outside. He was told, obviously, to be unarmed. Well, he came outside, knife in hand. One office had armed himself with a taser, behind the entry way to the apt. building (10 ft. behind the suspect when he exited). Other officers were on the sidewalk in front of the entryway, armed with firearms. The suspect refused to drop the knife at the commands of the officers armed with firearms. Before anyone had to make a decision to shoot him, the officer armed with the taser tased him in the back, he was disarmed, and taken into custody. Problem solved with no one dying. Had he refused to drop the knife, and was shot, his likelihood of dying would have been astronomically higher than being tased.

    Moving on to intermediate weapons. Chemical sprays and gases can cause burns to fair skinned people, and cause breathing problems in almost everybody. A person with COPD, asthma, etc, can quickly die after being sprayed. If there are young children in the vicinity, spray cannot be deployed because it can affect them differently than adults. Some sprays can't be deployed near an open flame or ignition source. Not everyone is affected by sprays either. Also, spray may affect everyone in the room, including police officers.

    Batons can cause extreme pain and injuries. Whether it be lacerations or broken bones, batons can injure people. If they strike a person in the wrong spot (head, neck, spine, throat, chest) they can quickly kill a person.

    Hands on is probably my least favorite level of force because it brings you so close to your adversary. When your that close to a suspect, your gun belongs to the person who gets it out of the holster first. They can easily gouge your eyes, grab your throat, knock you out with a well placed punch or kick, go for a gun grab, or any other weapon you carry.

    Tasers can be used at a distance. They can be used in confined areas, and only affect the person they make contact with. It doesn't stop your heart, breathing, and really is relativel painless (i think of it more as being incredibly uncomfortable than painful). Tasers work on EVERYONE as long as the connection is made correctly. Even hitting a person with the taser in a "sensitive" area (head,neck), although painful, is unlikely to kill or even permanently injure them.

    In summary, until you have a verified LEO tag and real world experience, trust me when I speak, sit down, and shut up.
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    the media is a for profit orginization, thus if they don;t get good ratings or sell papers they don't make money. people are tased every day in america and other countrys, course you will never hear of all the times that nothing bad happened,that is not news, you will only hear if something goes wrong because that sells. more people are killed every day in car wrecks than the supposed deaths caused by taser in a year but no one bitchin to take cars away. almost every dept. that allows officers to carry taser the officers themselves are tased before being allowed to carry.
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