Police Accountability

[countybear]

Anyway, I have come to realize just as many of you have, that these arguments aren't leading to anything constructive... I started out with the belief that in some cases, excessive use of force by the police is a relevant truth. I will stick to that viewpoint and will even go on to say that it might even be a occupational tendency...

You shan't hear from me any more in the forum...

[lewisipso]

I started out with the belief that in some cases, excessive use of force by the police is a relevant truth. I will stick to that viewpoint and will even go on to say that it might even be a occupational tendency. Many tactics used by police are based around intimidation and repression.

Your mind was made up before you got here. Your perspective was preconceived before you ever pressed the power button on your computer. No conversation here did that for you.
Since you believe you have a better answer then I challenge you to pin on a badge, go out into your community and walk the line as we do. Do that for quite a few years and come back. Until then....

[Ducky]

Why does no one seem to realize that a shockingly high percentage of cops hold college degrees? They come here looking for a bunch of power hungry control freaks, when if that's what they want they need to look into the political arena.

[Five-0]

Your mind was made up before you got here. Your perspective was preconceived before you ever pressed the power button on your computer. No conversation here did that for you.
Since you believe you have a better answer then I challenge you to pin on a badge, go out into your community and walk the line as we do. Do that for quite a few years and come back. Until then....

If his community just needs someone to walk around with a badge...he'll do. If they need someone to enforce the laws, protect them from people that only understand force, tell them NO from time to time, and protect them when they can't protect themselves I think his community would be SOL. Serving your community does not always make your community happy. Try and grasp that thought. To make it easier, no good deed goes unpunished.

[121Traffic]

I'm starting to think you've got me on your "Ignore" list, and my feelings are starting to get a little bit hurt. No matter, I'll respond because deep down I know you're reading. Even if you've attempted to broadcast that you won't be responding anymore.

Many of you have pointed out that I have not replied to the many questions asked of me. With a singular person having to defend views against so many, I would require many posts before I can address every point.

What did you expect? Honestly.

Anyway, I have come to realize just as many of you have, that these arguments aren't leading to anything constructive. So my replies would just be futile if anything. I will rest my case and hopefully bring this post to an end. I started out with the belief that in some cases, excessive use of force by the police is a relevant truth.

On the contrary. I think that they're very constructive. They are showing me just how deep some people's illusionary beliefs truly run. If I seem to have gotten a bit more snide, I do truly apologize, but give me a break. You're clearly looking for more of a negative response than you're getting, and I think it's irking you. I'm honestly starting to think that you came here wanting to bait the cops here into an emotionally-charged, heavily defensive, profanity-laced bashfest that you could then print out and disseminate as evidence how out of control we are, even in the face of the perfectly calm and rational discourse that you're offering. Instead, you're getting it handed to you in a cool and collect manner via facts and first-hand knowledge, training, and experience. Again, my opinion only, but I'm sure others here agree.

I'm not sure what you mean by "relevant truth", but taking it in context, I'm assuming you mean that excessive force sometimes exists. No one here has denied that instances of excessive force exist. There are 800,000 cops in the US. There are bound to be a few that push it too far. We've simply asserted our beliefs that the highly-anecdotal evidence you're attempting to present here are not instances of excessive force. You've singularly failed to prove otherwise.

I will stick to that viewpoint and will even go on to say that it might even be a occupational tendency.

Source? We're making wild extrapolations now? Fantastic! How fun. Do your research, son. Out of the thousands upon thousands of instances of force used by police every year--everything from control holds to handcuffs to baton strikes to shooting folks--well over 99% of them are found to be lawful, reasonable, and justified. Those determinations are very often confirmed by somewhat adversarial bodies, i.e. Internal Affairs, politically-minded chiefs/sheriffs, citizen review boards, etc. That isn't a made up statistic. The FBI tracks this stuff, and it amazes me how you, being the objective fact seeker you are, aren't willing to just type some simple terms into Google. Again, you're singularly failing to back up a claim you're making--in this case that it's a police "tendency" to use excessive force.

Many tactics used by police are based around intimidation and repression.

Source??

So it is not in the least illogical to assume that it might escalate to violence rarely. And there is much evidence for the same.

Again...and say it with me...SOURCE?! *sigh* Present the evidence. And not just your same tired examples of the Walmart drunk and the Occupy protests, which it doesn't seem like you're an active participant in.

The problem is, you're coming off as an ill-informed town crier, rather than an educated academic. You're dealing with Subject Matter Experts here. Some of us are just uniform patrol cops, some are administrators, and some of us are critical skills instructors and therefore have lots of time, training, and money invested into us by our departments. I fall in that last category. Bring facts and research to the table, and leave the emotive rhetoric to the Occupiers, and we'll probably take you more seriously.

As I mentioned before, I don't prescribe to mainstream media often. But this opinion that at times police action can be excessive, is a rather an equivocal one.

I'm assuming you mean UNequivocal? If so, then I agree with what you said. Police action, at times, can be excessive.

Bloggers, mainstream and independent journalists all seem to have the same opinion. Some of you said that it is just a smear campaign. I would say that there is a little more truth to it than that. No one is questioning the conduct of your individual departments.

You validate your opinions and your background by saying you don't subscribe to the view of MSM. But your sources, however, almost certainly do. Therefore, your anecdotal sources are tainted. Anecdotal sources being weak by definition anyway, their credibility should be even lower based on your logic.

It is also not illogical to say that by engaging in online discussion, you possibly don't even represent the mindset of an average LEO. Your moral standards might be of a higher degree.

That's just plain inflammatory, and demonstrative of the pre-conceived (and might I add, INCORRECT) notion that the "average" LEO isn't all that enlightened to the world around them. I would submit to you, sir, that this forum is all but completely made up of "average" LEOs. I would also add that your assertion that the moral standard of the "average" LEO is so low as to be raised by the mere perusing of an online discussion forum is so baseless and unfounded that your credibility here has dropped to an astonishingly low level. Debating you is just sport at this point. And not even a very challenging one. This is rather like the debate-equivalent of Curling.

As I come from a developing nation, I can see that when there is no tangible consequence for police brutality, it becomes all the more common. This is not to say that police brutality is in anyway a COMMON-HOOD in America. But at the same time it is not to be idealistic and say that it doesn't exist in any form.

Finally, one thing we agree on. While it exists here and there in this country, we are in no way, shape, or form, close to being "brutal" in the vein of the police in developing nations where there is no system of accountability. So why are you here again? What are you trying to prove?

[countybear]

Ok, enough fun...

You sniveling, snotty-nosed, Earth vexing, wannabe intellectualist douchebag. You have been filling a much-needed void in our forums. I had almost healed from the wounds left by reading the drivel of the last bleeding-heart idiot who blathered their way into our little corner of the cyber-verse.

You admit you know little, yet then critique and expound upon that which you admittedly misunderstand. You choose intellectual words to form sentences devoid of wisdom, and when confronted with reason and fact, you proudly remain steadfast in ignorance. You are what's wrong with the world. You reject reality, clinging to only that which your pathetically rose-glazed eyes let you see, and process it through a mind closed so tightly it begs to oxygenate.

You, and those like you, huddle like quivering rabbits when a real threat is about, yet spit on the very souls pledged to lay down their lives to save you. These men who you berate so haughtily here are veterans. They are hardened, brave, and undaunted by things which would snap you out of your slumber and into cold sweats and hyperventilation should you ever even chance to dream them. You utterly ungrateful coward, it is amusing that you even have delusions of adequacy.

How dare you? You feign to come here with questions, then spew your ignorance on the very same topic as if it is you who are the authority. Your greatest contribution is to serve as a warning to others. You sir, are what is known in internetdom as a troll, and might I add: what is known in our circles as a statistic, waiting to happen.

Smarten up. Quit turning Van Gogh's ear to the experience of those wiser around you, or at least admit to your own confused mind that you should never ask questions of those who's time is wasted by your inability to comprehend.

You are going into the holding cell. After a time, I will ban you. You have wasted enough of our membership's time, and finally ALL of my patience.

[213th]

I hope to not have irked the emotions of any of you. And if I have, please realize that they originated from the points that I made and not from the intention of spreading any hate.

What's that smell? Bullshit? Or an Occupy camp?

[213th]

I was wondering how long this thread was going to last before being relegated to the holding cell. Next time I think the mod's should let us take bets on page count or number of days

[121Traffic]

Epic win post

Ahhhhh.

[Ducky]

CB, that was beautiful. Brought a tear to my eye. Now I need

[Buttercup]

CB, that was beautiful. Brought a tear to my eye. Now I need

Between CB and 121Traffic, I am breathless. I think I need to go and lie down.

[Five-0]

I was wondering how long this thread was going to last before being relegated to the holding cell. Next time I think the mod's should let us take bets on page count or number of days

Just post such things. Most of our members can smell these sorts of threads a mile away. I knew this was gold waiting to happen. This same original video was posted on other forums I frequent. I put links to this thread there so they could see what happens when emotion goes up against fact, logic, and expertise. It is a good exercise for our members to see how others aticulate their arguements against drivel like this, and it is eye opening for the lurkers that may visit.


We are hear to serve all comers.

[Rhino]

[Morris]

The BS meter force was deep with many of you.

I bow to your superiority.

(And how in the hell did I miss this fun stuff??!!) "Shan't"?! What the fuck is that?

[abom334]

i

Sure one could say that the tazer and the body pile were justified in that the police are always vary of the fact that a person could be armed. But the fact that the man's face was pressed down to the ground by the knee of cop is not one that I am willing to digest. I am entirely unaware of police protocols, and was only present for the very last part of the whole scenario. But would it not seem excessive if a police man was bearing down on a man's face to the ground with the force of his knee, even after the man was handcuffed?
[/B]

Have you ever been bitten or spit on by someone? Better yet, have you ever been bitten or spit on by someone carrying a contagious disease such as HIV or Hepatitis C or B? Being handcuffed prevents the person from throwing punches at you or hinders that person from attacking you with his/her hands. It does NOT prevent that person from spitting on you or biting you while you are trying to gain control of him/her. Law Enforcement Officers respond to a call knowing nothing of the person they are going to be contacting. For all I know this person on the ground handcuffed is infected with one of these diseases and if he has bad hygiene and bloody gums, spitting in my eye, or nose or mouth exposes me to this.. I might as well let someone stick me with an infected needle. Try and control someones head while they resist with just your hand and tell me how that works out for you. My job firstly, is to protect myself and putting my knee on someones head to keep them from head butting, biting, or spitting on me or my partners is more of a self defense I would say. It also could prevent him from banging his own head against the pavement. This method also frees my hands to assist in gaining control of a resisting suspect.

There are several reasons why we do what we do. Don't be so quick to assume this is excessive or meant to hurt the suspect because these methods are meant to protect us as well.

[MacLean]

I believe he was warned.

Shrug.

[countybear]

I believe he was warned.

Shrug.

Repeatedly...

[Shoestring]

CB thank you for your gift of being you, that was the best rebutle i have ever read

[berserk]

Have you ever been bitten or spit on by someone? Better yet, have you ever been bitten or spit on by someone carrying a contagious disease such as HIV or Hepatitis C or B?

Speaking of... I was bitten last night. Dirty savage.

I gotta say, the side effects of the small pharmacy I'm required to consume are even worse than the bite. Still, better than catching something nasty.

[abom334]

Speaking of... I was bitten last night. Dirty savage.

I gotta say, the side effects of the small pharmacy I'm required to consume are even worse than the bite. Still, better than catching something nasty.

That sucks man. I have heard about the "protocol" and the side effects of the antibiotics sound pretty harsh.