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  1. #21
    BEK's Avatar
    BEK
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    All for it. If you wanna have the benifits of living in this great nation then why not do something to ensure that you a get to keep these benifits. We cant just keep letting our poor continue to fight for our liberties as the rich stay at home now can we. If you are 18 I think you should have to do some service for our nation. highfive


  2. #22
    FTL_Ian's Avatar
    FTL_Ian is offline Professional Iconoclast
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    Quote Originally Posted by BEK320 View Post
    All for it. If you wanna have the benifits of living in this great nation then why not do something to ensure that you a get to keep these benifits. We cant just keep letting our poor continue to fight for our liberties as the rich stay at home now can we. If you are 18 I think you should have to do some service for our nation. highfive
    Great, so I either work for the government or I get thrown in the clink or shot?

    That sure sounds like something that should happen to people in a free country.
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  3. #23
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    just think what may happen if it wasnt... so you dont care that the poor are the ones having to serve... poor are normally the minoritys ya know, and if you want all the minoritys to go fight for your freedom isnt that like slavery... Are you racist


  4. #24
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    FTL_Ian is offline Professional Iconoclast
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    Quote Originally Posted by BEK320 View Post
    just think what may happen if it wasnt... so you dont care that the poor are the ones having to serve... poor are normally the minoritys ya know, and if you want all the minoritys to go fight for your freedom isnt that like slavery... Are you racist
    I don't ask anyone serve me. If I do, I'll be paying them directly.

    I don't enslave people, only the government can do that. Also, there are plenty of poor whites. How can you possibly think involuntary servitude is acceptable?
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  5. #25
    BEK's Avatar
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    you accept citizenship into this country, you are not held captive in the country. Therefore if you dont want to serve the country which you accept citizenship then find another country to live in. BTW you didnt answer the question


  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by BEK320 View Post
    you accept citizenship into this country, you are not held captive in the country. Therefore if you dont want to serve the country which you accept citizenship then find another country to live in. BTW you didnt answer the question
    No, I'm not a racist. You didn't answer mine...

    How can you possibly think involuntary servitude is acceptable?
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  7. #27
    BEK's Avatar
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    BEK is offline Lieutenant
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    You bring other countrys into all your arguments why are you not doing that here. I think it is honorable to serve your country and not sit and be a leach on society. It would help educate more of our citizens in jobs and make the nation stronger and better


  8. #28
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    FTL_Ian is offline Professional Iconoclast
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    Quote Originally Posted by BEK320 View Post
    You bring other countrys into all your arguments why are you not doing that here.
    Rarely.

    I think it is honorable to serve your country and not sit and be a leach on society.
    I serve my customers: listeners, advertisers, and affiliates. Government is the leech on society. The market produces wealth while the government confiscates wealth, like a parasite.

    It would help educate more of our citizens in jobs and make the nation stronger and better
    Slavery makes a country better? What could possibly lead you to think that way?
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  9. #29
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    I serve my customers: listeners, advertisers, and affiliates. Government is the leech on society.
    your still a slave or in todays language a hoe to someone. One day you may get pimp slapped


  10. #30
    bmf95b is offline PATROL DEPUTY
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    Damn, I did not think this post would get so hot. But I got your back BEK. I think the country would be a better place if everyone had to serve. Military, Peace corps, Boy Scouts... something..... Whats 24 months.

  11. #31
    AITG is offline Master Officer
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    Freedom isn't free. FTL_Ian obviously enjoys the benefits of that freedom. Asking him ... and all citizens ... to do their part to keep our freedoms isn't being enslaved.
    I think the Israelis have the right idea. Everyone does a year of service for their country (not their government, their country). If we had that over here we might have fewer smug people who take the systems' free ride. More people would appreciate the military, understand self defense, and realize that life isn't a given.
    YMMV.
    If I wanted people to like me I'd be a fireman.

  12. #32
    bmf95b is offline PATROL DEPUTY
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    Damn.. Another good reply !!

  13. #33
    bmf95b is offline PATROL DEPUTY
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    (not thier government, their country) I like that saying AITG...

  14. #34
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    Doc_Holliday is offline California Dreaming...
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    FTL_Ian just doesn't understand...he thinks his citezenship is a birthright, and that simply because he was born on American soil he is entitled. I believe the modern volunteer military is a logical extension of the founding fathers idea of a ready militia; and I also think that they would agree that every able bodied person should be prepared to sacrifice for their freedom. As they themselves sacrificed. I don't believe anybody mentioned shooting those who did not serve, nor did we discuss the option of imprisonment. I would say how about if you dont serve, you lose the privleges of being a citizen . IE the right to vote, the right to bring suits in federal and local courts, the right to bloated social programs such as social security and such? Why should those who think so little of our country, like FTL_Ian, be able to reap such great rewards? For those on this board who never served, this is NOT a slight on you...this is merely my opinion on a future set up, not a reflection of the way it has been.

  15. #35
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    bird1 is offline Corporal
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    I served ten years in the army, and i think the draft is a very bad idea. back in 1991-92 when they started downsizing i kinda knew this was going to happen. bringing in guys who dont want to be in the war puts lives in danger. the last time they used the draft was in vietnam, and we all know how that turned out. compulsory service on the other hand is a good idea maybe 1 year or 2 years tops. that way everyone knows the price of freedom. im pretty sure while Ftl_Ian was in college applying for his goverment student loans he didnt bad mouth his goverment then. a great president once said " Ask Not What You're Country Can Do For You, Ask What You Can Do For Your Country" I think if you apply for any kind of goverment student loan you have to repay it with some type of service. in this day and age everyone has to antee up. it shouldn't only be the less fortunate who fight our wars. people like Ftl_Ian only take from the goverment, and when the goverment asks them to step up to the plate they yell and scream that all types of service is "slavery". freedom isn't free Ftl_Ian its being paid in blood, sweat, and tears by our brave young men and women. when you are nice and safe in your radio booth bad mouthing the goverment remember that there are folks out there dying so you can have that right. i proudly served my ten years in the military where were you Ftl_Ian ?
    Last edited by bird1; 12-08-06 at 03:11 PM.
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  16. #36
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    meh, i can't be drafted, but i sure made an attempt to join when i first left high school.

  17. #37
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    Piggybank Cop is offline Nobody important.
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    You should read this book:

    Starship Troopers

    Quote from:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starship_Troopers#Politics

    “Starship Troopers is a political essay as well as a novel. Large portions of the book take place in classrooms, with Rico and other characters engaged in debates with their History and Moral Philosophy teachers, who are often thought to be speaking in Heinlein's voice. The overall theme of the book is that social responsibility requires individual sacrifice. Heinlein's Terran Federation is a limited democracy with aspects of a meritocracy based on willingness to sacrifice in the common interest. Suffrage belongs only to those willing to serve their society by two years of volunteer Federal Service (there is no draft before the Bug War)—"the franchise is today limited to discharged veterans," (ch. XII), instead of anyone ("...who is 18 years old and has a body temperature near 37 °C."[13]). There is an explicitly made contrast to the democracies of the 20th century, which according to the novel were flawed (and collapsed) because "people had been led to believe that they could simply vote for whatever they wanted . . . and get it, without toil, without sweat, without tears."[14] Indeed, Col. Dubois criticizes as unrealistic the famous U.S. Declaration of Independence guarantees concerning "Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

    Some critics have complained that Heinlein creates a sexist world where the electorate is mostly male, to the further exclusion of the disabled. However, the book details that the Terran Constitution requires the government to accept any volunteer, regardless of gender, skills, or ability (the general intent is volunteer sacrifice as evidence of ability to put society above private interest; the military is a single component of that service). The only instance in which one can be denied the opportunity for Federal service—a Constitutional right—is if psychiatrists determine the applicant does not understand his or her oath. Those not fit for active military service have some other service found for them of equitable risk (risk of life being one of the key ideas, as stated above); examples include drug testing and safety equipment testing, though somewhat safer aspects (research and development, which Carl gets into) exist. Also, while the M.I. is nearly all male, the Navy has a high percentage of female personnel, especially in its officer ranks.

    Starship Troopers is also widely regarded as a vehicle for Heinlein's anti-communist views, best summed up by Rico's belief that "[c]orrect morals arise from knowing what man is—not what do-gooders and well-meaning old Aunt Nellies would like him to be."[15] Characters attack Karl Marx (a "pompous fraud"), the Labor theory of value ("All the work one cares to add will not turn a mud pie into an apple tart...")[16] and Plato's The Republic ("antlike communism" and "weird in the extreme").[17] Many believe Heinlein's fears about communism are embodied in the Arachnids, the "ultimate dictatorship of the hive."[18] The Arachnids are a society of "total communism" adapted to it by evolution. They lay eggs in the thousands and send warriors off to battle without (apparent) regard for casualties, in both cases significantly different from the individualistic Terrans.[19]”

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    And no you can't have any.

  18. #38
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    I am serving here with the finest men and women America has to offer. That being said.. because they joined they in-turn volunteered to come here. Most of them dont want to be here. HELL I DONT WANT TO BE HERE! Since they are here though they have chosen to be the best at EVERYTHING, it dont matter if they are mechanics, MP's (the finest), cooks, clerks or supply, they are doing thier best because they volunteered.

    I dont support he idea of the draft because I dont want a loser from the block who is so totally against being here that they perform to barely minimum standards no matter the task outside of chow and hiding in the face of danger. Many many men were drafted into service in previous wars, the military was different then, now we have to be kind to enven the worst jackass that can pass basic training (even that jackass volunteered though). Todays military is not the place for forced service.

    Top Kelly, we'll need the Ol'Dogs like you to come back and swing an axe handle to keep those who dont want to serve in line.

    bmf95b: I'm out front every day, some folks just dont know who to follow!
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  19. #39
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    Piggybank Cop is offline Nobody important.
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    "Top Kelly, we'll need the Ol'Dogs like you to come back and swing an axe handle to keep those who dont want to serve in line."

    Sir, yes sir.

    Please, please, please.

    We are the thin blue line
    between you
    and all the money in the world.

    And no you can't have any.

  20. #40
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    armygrnt502 is offline Making my streets safer, one day at a time
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    Having served 7 years in the Army, I had the pleasure of serving with soldiers from different countries and lifestyles.

    I dont support a draft. As many have mentioned above, it may fill the ranks, but the quality of soldier/sailor/airmen is usually below par.

    I do support mandatory service however. Like many European countries (not saying we should be like them), they have mandatory state service. This is not always military service mind you. Military is an option, but if you choose another route, then you have agencies such as the Red Cross that you can work for. This allows those with moral convictions against war to still serve and fullfill their obligations.

    This system has been in effect for numerous countries for decades. We as Americans are loathe to impress this upon our peoples, for fear of stepping on their "rights". Just because you are born here should not automatically grant you privledges lock stock and barrel.
    "Sometimes people need a little help. Sometimes people need to be forgiven. And sometimes they need to go to jail."


 

 
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