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    The Truth about William Ayers and associates

    YouTube - Larry Grathwohl on Ayers' Plan for an American Genocide

    Larry Grathwohl, the interviewee, is a former FBI informant who went undercover to get information on the radical terrorist group the Weather Underground, of which Bill Ayers was a member, and enabler.

    Bill Ayers, according to Obama, is just a guy that lives in his neighborhood, and he collaborated on a few community projects, where he funneled millions into Bill Ayers' programs.

    Sorry Obama, but you cant run from your past!!!

    More than just neighbors. More than just acquaintances on a job. This guy is Obama's Mentor!!!
    YouTube - Fox News: Weatherman Bill Ayers Was Obama's "Mentor"
    "We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." -- George Orwell

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    What? No videos about G. Gordon Liddy?
    "If everyone is thinking alike, then someone isn't thinking." -Gen. George S. Patton

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    Obama should have asked for the police records of everyone he knew before becoming friends with them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenna View Post
    Obama should have asked for the police records of everyone he knew before becoming friends with them.
    Oh, come on! It's not like Bill Ayers was some street-level nobody thug. That's like McCain going "G. Gordon Who?"

    My point was McCain is not any better than Obama so playing the Bill Ayers card is casting stones while in glass house.
    "If everyone is thinking alike, then someone isn't thinking." -Gen. George S. Patton

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhino View Post
    Oh, come on! It's not like Bill Ayers was some street-level nobody thug. That's like McCain going "G. Gordon Who?"

    My point was McCain is not any better than Obama so playing the Bill Ayers card is casting stones while in glass house.
    I don't remember anything about GGL advocating the violent overthrow of the US Government. Can you find me a source on that?

    Obama should have asked for the police records of everyone he knew before becoming friends with them.
    How naive can you be? That's it Jenna... you are no longer a 'sheep', you are an ostrich.



    You absolutely refuse to see the danger that looms on the horizon for this country.

    I suppose the better question in this election is, how naive can Americans be in general?

    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money."
    - Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America

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    You guys missed the point. The FBI informant says that Bill Ayers, and his Co-horts were very serious about the overthrow of the US Gov't, in such a way, that these people actually discussed "re-education camps" and that there was an estimated 25 million hard core capitalist that they would have to eliminate. These columbia graduates were contemplating how to murder and dispose of 25 million Americans!!!! Our grandparents and parents would probably have been their targets. William Ayers was well known in academia circles of which Obama was a part of. His terrorists activities were documented for years in books and documentaries, and he enjoyed and bragged of the fact he beat the US Govt on a technicality. William Ayers also posed for a picture in a magazine where he is standing in an alley way (where most skells piss and crap) with garbage shrewn about, standing on an American Flag. Obama has not ever denounced that picture!!!

    This terrorist may not have Obama calling on him now, but if Obama gets elected, there is no doubt in anyone's mind that he will take the socialist values, and anti-american views of his neighborhood unrepentant terrorist into his foriegn policy decisions. Who he has surrounded himself with in the past 20 yrs, has no doubt influenced his views on how to govern America.

    Excuse me, but I dont suffer from any kind of "guilt", that would be erased by voting for Obama. There are far more qualified and acceptable candidates to vote for. Obama is a great communicator and very charasmatic, but history is filled with despots who had the same talents, in which American Soldiers have had to take out by force. Why in the world should we give this guy any platform for his radical views.

    I work hard for the little money I take home. A family who earns 200K a year is not very rich to begin with. They may be better off than those in another neighborhood but they are not rich. A man like Bloomberg, Brad Pitt, George Soros, etc. are rich any where in the world they may go. Im rich in the fact I have a loving family and civil service job. But according the the socialists, I have to give more. I should be punished for the sake of spreading the wealth. Give my hard earned money to people who wont even get up in the morning to find a job. Water down the middle class, and create a wider gap between the rich and the poor. But thats ok by the likes of Obama and Ayers. They are very generous with your money, but not theirs. Ridiculous.
    "We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." -- George Orwell

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    Jenna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by countybear View Post
    How naive can you be? That's it Jenna... you are no longer a 'sheep', you are an ostrich.
    Progressives of a feather flock together.



    But seriously, I don't agree with Obama on everything and I do worry about how he might handle some issues (e.g. getting out of Iraq without leaving an even worse mess), but his casual friendship with someone who committed crimes when he was 8 years old is the least of my concerns. Ayers was at most one of tens and thousands of friends that Obama has had, and is not a big influence on him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by countybear View Post
    I don't remember anything about GGL advocating the violent overthrow of the US Government. Can you find me a source on that?
    Under the right conditions, I myself would advocate the violent overthrow of US government. We aren't there yet- but maybe Obama will "change" that.

    My point is- a criminal is a criminal.
    "If everyone is thinking alike, then someone isn't thinking." -Gen. George S. Patton

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dustoff262 View Post
    This terrorist may not have Obama calling on him now, but if Obama gets elected, there is no doubt in anyone's mind that he will take the socialist values, and anti-american views of his neighborhood unrepentant terrorist into his foriegn policy decisions. Who he has surrounded himself with in the past 20 yrs, has no doubt influenced his views on how to govern America.
    Obama will most likely keep Ayers at a distance to avoid problems for his next election. Even if he doesn't, whatever influence Ayers has, if any, will be balanced out by the influence of the tens of thousands of other people Obama has been friends with at some point, including his Republican friends (such as Dick Lugar, John Warner and Tom Coburn).

    Quote Originally Posted by Dustoff262 View Post
    I work hard for the little money I take home. A family who earns 200K a year is not very rich to begin with. They may be better off than those in another neighborhood but they are not rich. A man like Bloomberg, Brad Pitt, George Soros, etc. are rich any where in the world they may go. Im rich in the fact I have a loving family and civil service job. But according the the socialists, I have to give more. I should be punished for the sake of spreading the wealth. Give my hard earned money to people who wont even get up in the morning to find a job. Water down the middle class, and create a wider gap between the rich and the poor. But thats ok by the likes of Obama and Ayers. They are very generous with your money, but not theirs. Ridiculous.
    If your family earns 200K or less a year your taxes will decrease under Obama's plan. If your family earns 200K-250K a year your taxes for income under $200K will decrease under Obama's plan, and the rest of your taxes will stay the same. If your family earns over 250K a year your taxes for income under $200K will decrease under Obama's plan, your taxes for income between 200K-250K will stay the same, and you'll get a 3% increase on what you're making over $250K. In return you might get to not die of infectious diseases spread by people without health insurance. Sounds like a good deal.

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    Jenna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhino View Post
    Under the right conditions, I myself would advocate the violent overthrow of US government.
    Oh great, now we're all going to get in trouble for associating with you!

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    Quote Originally Posted by countybear View Post
    I suppose the better question in this election is, how naive can Americans be in general?

    Deep down, you know you don't want the answer to that one.

    Meanwhile, fishing in Russia:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkzV5AIK8iM
    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." -- Frederic Bastiat

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    Jenna, I hate it, say those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it. Do some research with an open mind and look at what happened in 20's, 30's, 40's and the leaders of the countries at the time and apply that that today.
    Last edited by countybear; 10-30-08 at 03:54 PM. Reason: Referenced information only revealed in the Squad Room.

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    So again:

    Originally Posted by Rhino
    Oh, come on! It's not like Bill Ayers was some street-level nobody thug. That's like McCain going "G. Gordon Who?"

    My point was McCain is not any better than Obama so playing the Bill Ayers card is casting stones while in glass house.
    Liddy served 4.5 on 20 for burglary and wiretapping in the infamous Watergate scandal, which also took down a President of this country (via resignation).

    Who is William Ayers?

    Source, Wikipedia; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Ayers
    In 1970 he (William Ayers) "went underground" with several associates after the Greenwich Village townhouse explosion, in which Weatherman member Ted Gold, Ayers' close friend Terry Robbins, and Ayers' girlfriend, Diana Oughton, were killed when a nail bomb (an anti-personnel device) they were assembling exploded. Kathy Boudin and Cathy Wilkerson survived the blast. Ayers was not facing criminal charges at the time, but the federal government later filed charges against him.[3] Ayers participated in the bombings of New York City Police Headquarters in 1970, the United States Capitol building in 1971, and The Pentagon in 1972, as he noted in his 2001 book, Fugitive Days. Because of a water leak caused by the Pentagon bombing, aerial bombardments during the Vietnam War had to be halted for several days. Ayers writes:
    Although the bomb that rocked the Pentagon was itsy-bitsy - weighing close to two pounds - it caused 'tens of thousands of dollars' of damage. The operation cost under $500, and no one was killed or even hurt.[14]
    While underground, he and fellow member Bernardine Dohrn married, and the two remained fugitives together, changing identities, jobs and locations.

    In 1973, the federal government requested the dismissal of the charges against the couple in the interest of national security following accusations of government misconduct,"[15] but state charges against Dohrn remained. Dohrn was still reluctant to turn herself in to authorities. "He was sweet and patient, as he always is, to let me come to my senses on my own", she later said of Ayers.[3] She turned herself in to authorities in 1980. She was fined $1,500 and given three years probation.[16]

    Ayers and Dohrn later became legal guardians to the son of former Weathermen David Gilbert and Kathy Boudin after the boy's parents were convicted and sent to prison for their part in the Brinks Robbery of 1981.[17]
    Note that the Brinks Robbery (which involved the murders of two police officers, Edward O'Grady and Waverly Brown, and a Brinks guard, Peter Paige), was in October of 1981.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhino View Post
    My point is- a criminal is a criminal.
    I can't see much of a comparison between stealing documents and illegal wiretapping, versus bombing a police station, the Pentagon, and the US Capitol, then brazenly walking away scot free on a tecnicality, yet you can? I wonder, being so closely related to such people, such that you moved into the same neighborhoods, kept one another's children, made real estate deals, and were literally sponsored in founding a political career, could that be nearly the same affiliation you have with '10's of thousands' of other 'friends'? What's your take on this, Jenna?

    Wouldn't even you admit that this might throw a bit more light on a comment like, "For the first time in my life, I'm proud of my country..."?

    As far as Dorhn, (the silent partner in much of the current hoopla, how's this for tricks?

    Also, Wikipedia; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernardine_Dohrn

    Dohrn was criticized for a comment she made about the Charles Manson led Tate-LaBianca murders in a speech during the December 1969 "War Council" meeting organized by the Weathermen and attended by about 400 people in Flint, Michigan: "Dig it! First they killed those pigs and then they put a fork in their bellies. Wild!"

    Dohrn also charged that her fellow left-wingers showed themselves to be scared "honkies" for not burning down Chicago when Black Panther leader Fred Hampton was killed, and urged her audience to arm themselves and be "a fighting force alongside the blacks".[9] Dohrn's husband Bill Ayers has written that Dohrn was being ironic when she made the statement[10]...

    Dohrn went underground in early 1970, engaging in bombing activities. In a 1994 interview, Dohrn said that while the group carried out some bombings of buildings, it did not target people, and the group's actions were justified as a proper response to violent government actions: "We only did a couple, and they were carefully done. They involved property and were not meant to harm anybody. They were symbolic and done so that everyone would instantly recognize what was being said. It was 'armed propaganda'. Sure, it was violent, and it's hard to justify twenty years later, but it was extremely restrained and a highly appropriate response to the level of violence being rained nationally and internationally".[15]...
    Dorhn in her own words, 1975:
    We are building a communist organization to be part of the forces which build a revolutionary communist party to lead the working class to seize power and build socialism...
    The struggle for Marxism-Leninism is the most significant development in our recent history. [...] We discovered thru [sic] our own experiences what revolutionaries all over the world have found that Marxism-Leninism is the science of revolution, the revolutionary ideology of the working class, our guide to the struggle..."


    And Dorhn in her own words, 1994:
    "I still see myself as a radical."


    Where has the media been on all of this information? Strangely silent.

    "The Messiah", who preaches love and change, surrounds himself (very closely) with those who advocate mass murder and genocide, and a violent overthrow of the U.S. Government; those who yell "Goddamn America!!" from their pulpit... is there any wonder why he would want to open 'dialogues' with radical terrorist factions worldwide?

    The children of the 60's have matured into the adults of the new millenium, the thought processes polluted by years of radicalism and hatred of authority have taken on a smiling, peaceful guise, yet the remnants of them and their teachings have been passed on to a new breed of activist, one that doesn't scream and carry signs, driving around in a flowered VW microbus. Now, they seek to rule from within, and the foolish masses flock to them, for they have a new mouthpiece, a new spokesmodel, one who rides the tide of hype and holds the card of race.

    Gun control? Absolutely. Socialism? Certainly! Change? Undoubtedly.

    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money."
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  14. #14
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    You know.....Hitler was a charmer too. In the beginning anyway.
    Are you a 3%er? If you aren't, you should be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by countybear View Post
    I wonder, being so closely related to such people, such that you moved into the same neighborhoods, kept one another's children, made real estate deals, and were literally sponsored in founding a political career, could that be nearly the same affiliation you have with '10's of thousands' of other 'friends'? What's your take on this, Jenna?

    Wouldn't even you admit that this might throw a bit more light on a comment like, "For the first time in my life, I'm proud of my country..."?
    Even if they had been close friends, it would not constitute evidence that Obama actually agreed with him on anything--most of us have close friends we disagree with (I certainly do! ). And there's not even evidence that they were anything more than casual, distant friends. Moving into the same neighborhood as someone does not imply any closeness or agreement with that person--everyone moves into neighborhoods containing people they disagree with and are not close to. There's no evidence that they kept each other's children, and even if their children had sleepovers at each other's houses that wouldn't necessarily mean that Obama knew about or condoned Ayers' actions. What parent says to his child, "before you have a sleepover at your friend's home, I have to hire a private investigator to check your friend's parents' arrest records from every year of their lives"? Not that there is any evidence that any such sleepovers occurred. Nor do most people demand arrest records of everyone they do real estate deals with. Millions of people have sponsored Obama's political career, and no politician is going to demand all their supporters' arrest records before accepting their support. There's no evidence Obama even knew exactly what Ayers did or how Ayers felt about it until after Ayers' 2001 interview, after which Obama was no longer interacting with Ayers.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/04/us...pagewanted=all

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    Quote Originally Posted by countybear View Post
    I can't see much of a comparison between stealing documents and illegal wiretapping, versus bombing a police station, the Pentagon, and the US Capitol, then brazenly walking away scot free on a tecnicality, yet you can?
    Why so defensive, CB? They are both crimes, aren't they? I'm not dismissing who Obama runs around with. I'm saying McCain's no saint, either. They are equally not qualified to be president.
    "If everyone is thinking alike, then someone isn't thinking." -Gen. George S. Patton

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenna View Post
    Moving into the same neighborhood as someone does not imply any closeness or agreement with that person--everyone moves into neighborhoods containing people they disagree with and are not close to. There's no evidence that they kept each other's children, and even if their children had sleepovers at each other's houses that wouldn't necessarily mean that Obama knew about or condoned Ayers' actions. What parent says to his child, "before you have a sleepover at your friend's home, I want your friend's parents to provide me with their arrest records from every year of their lives"? Not that there is any evidence that any such sleepovers occurred. Nor do most people demand arrest records of everyone they do real estate deals with. Millions of people have sponsored Obama's political career, and no politician is going to demand all their supporters' arrest records before accepting their support. There's no evidence Obama even knew exactly what Ayers did or how Ayers felt about it until after Ayers' 2001 interview, after which Obama was no longer interacting with Ayers.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/04/us...pagewanted=all
    Someone with a background like Ayers, (who has appeared on the FBI's 10 most wanted list), isn't a private figure. His dealings have been national news. Yet, the paths have crossed so frequently over the course of 20 years. I'm sure its all just a cruel coincidence.

    Wait, its not a cruel coincidence! It must be part of a vast, right-wing conspiracy to discredit Obama! Right Hilary?

    The real estate deals were quite lucrative for Mr. Obama and family, they in fact involve Mr. Obama's current home, and such are public record. I know you won't look into them. Why would you?

    There's an old adage; If it walks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, it might just be a duck...

    Sorry to have disturbed you. Please go back to the sandpile. The other ostriches miss your muffled voice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhino View Post
    Why so defensive, CB? They are both crimes, aren't they? I'm not dismissing who Obama runs around with. I'm saying McCain's no saint, either. They are equally not qualified to be president.
    Please don't take my sarchasm as defensiveness... you belittle me that way.

    I cannot believe that you, as a LEO yourself, could not attach severity to crime, especially when crime involves the intent to murder, maim, and destroy symbols of authority and order. If indeed, "a crime" were "a crime", and there were no such considerations, then why would our justice system be built in the manner that it is, with graduated sentencing, misdemeanor and felony classes, and death warranted only in the most severe offenses? Your argument is opaque, and your reasoning flawed, common sense had obviously escaped you in that statement. Such doesn't make me 'defensive', my friend, it makes me incredulous.

    I find it quite ironic, actually, that McCain spent longer in a Vietnamese torture chamber, than Liddy, Ayers, and Dorhn did (even incarcerated in club fed) combined, and all for the crime of serving his country and refusing to denounce it. It never ceases to amaze me, that people like Ayers, Dorhn, and Wright, spew hatred and venom as if the price of their rights to do so weren't paid in blood by many like McCain himself, yet they continue to despise the very hands that have fed them. Indeed, in Dorhn and Ayers' case, they actively intended and acted to create havok, terrorize, destroy, and kill.

    I wasn't a McCain supporter prior to this election, that much is true. Yet, I've seen him smile in the face of those who despise him. I've seen his grace and congeniality while his factual and well-proven commitment to this country, (along with the prices he's paid on its behalf), have been belittled, sneered at, and reviled. Such has allowed me to identify with him, seemingly almost as kindred. As a peace officer and a public servant, I see much the same in people all of the time on the street, only directed toward me and my contemporaries.

    I do not believe that there could be any vote so crucial, so well contemplated, and so dearly and proudly cast, than the one I will cast on election day for John McCain.

    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money."
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  19. #19
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    We're not talking about the Criminal Justice system here, CB. (And sorry if you felt I belittle you- I have nothing but respect.) Nor am I trying to lessen Obama's association with a terrorist- for that's what Ayers is.

    I'm merely pointing out that both candidates have associated themselves with criminals. To whatever degree you want to take it, for whatever it's worth.

    I believe our government is so inbred, figuratively speaking (mostly), that Democrat and Republican are the two sides of the same tarnished coin.

    Either I am against gay marriage (like McCain is), or I support socialized Medicine (like Obama does). Well what if I'm against socialized medicine and support gay marriage?

    The two party system this country has become has all but removed free and independant thought from the voting public. You are either one extreme or the other. There is no voice in America for moderation. Well, there was Ron Paul, but he wasn't allowed in the debates.

    Sanity is no longer wanted.
    "If everyone is thinking alike, then someone isn't thinking." -Gen. George S. Patton

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhino View Post
    We're not talking about the Criminal Justice system here, CB. (And sorry if you felt I belittle you- I have nothing but respect.) Nor am I trying to lessen Obama's association with a terrorist- for that's what Ayers is.

    I'm merely pointing out that both candidates have associated themselves with criminals. To whatever degree you want to take it, for whatever it's worth.

    I believe our government is so inbred, figuratively speaking (mostly), that Democrat and Republican are the two sides of the same tarnished coin.

    Either I am against gay marriage (like McCain is), or I support socialized Medicine (like Obama does). Well what if I'm against socialized medicine and support gay marriage?

    The two party system this country has become has all but removed free and independant thought from the voting public. You are either one extreme or the other. There is no voice in America for moderation. Well, there was Ron Paul, but he wasn't allowed in the debates.

    Sanity is no longer wanted.
    Your frustration is well taken, and shared by many. I am frustrated at the lack of choices that the American people actually have in the current system, in that the Primary elections tend to weed out perfectly viable candidates based on the opinions of what equates to be literally a minority of Americans. I believe that we should have a look at any system that forcefully limits the voices of the people by reducing the field. That is attributable to the DNC and the RNC respectively, and was not always a part of the system.

    With what we have now, we still must choose responsibly based upon who most closely represents our personal belief system. We cannot count on the government to politically police itself, because of the inherent risks involved, and because our government is not equipped to police its own upper eschelon effectively anyway. That much is a given.

    I, for one, prioritize my stances. There are things I hold most valuable, and things cursory or tertiary to my personal views. One that is never up for debate with me is faith in the very fundamental basis of America as a country, that is, faith in our system. It is polluted, at times corrupted, and often misdirected, yet it exists as a world power because of we, the people, and the grand scheme of design developed by our forefathers. I am a constructionist, conservative, consititutionalist, and most of all, I am proud to call this country home. If a candidate disagrees with that broad basis, they are not what I will vote for, ever.

    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money."
    - Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America

    Tell me not, Sweet, I am unkind,
    That from the nunnery
    Of thy chaste breast and quiet mind
    To war and arms I fly.
    - Lovelace

    The opinions expressed by this poster are wholly his own, and should never be construed to even remotely be in representation of his employer, its agencies or assigns. In fact, they probably fail to be in alignment with the opinions of any rational human being.

 

 
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