Welcome to the APBWeb.
Results 1 to 11 of 11
  1. #1
    countybear's Avatar
    countybear is offline BDRT - Baby Daddy Removal Team
    Verified LEO
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    01-18-07
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    6,512
    Rep Power
    4611628

    The British Experiment - Gun Control

    I'd especially like input from UK cops, do you think this is accurately portrayed?
    (And no, don't give me the PC answer that your bosses want to read. I'd like your honest opinion).

    YouTube - The British called - They want their guns back!

    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money."
    - Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America

    Tell me not, Sweet, I am unkind,
    That from the nunnery
    Of thy chaste breast and quiet mind
    To war and arms I fly.
    - Lovelace

    The opinions expressed by this poster are wholly his own, and should never be construed to even remotely be in representation of his employer, its agencies or assigns. In fact, they probably fail to be in alignment with the opinions of any rational human being.

  2. #2
    Five-0's Avatar
    Five-0 is offline Super Moderator
    Premium Lifetime Member
    Verified LEO
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    05-15-06
    Posts
    10,982
    Rep Power
    8357019
    Sounds like it is about time for a revolution. If you need some pointers/hints we are here for you.

    Meanwhile, fishing in Russia:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkzV5AIK8iM
    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." -- Frederic Bastiat

    "Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter." Ernest Hemingway

    The opinions given in my signatures & threads DO NOT reflect the opinions, views, policies, and/or procedures of my employing agency. They are my personal opinions only, thereby releasing my agency of any liability, or involvement in anything posted under the username "Five-0" on Officerresource.com

  3. #3
    Captain America's Avatar
    Captain America is offline Reed and Malloy were my FTOs
    Supporting Member Lvl 1
    Verified LEO
    Site Moderator
    Join Date
    05-01-08
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    8,638
    Rep Power
    6643981
    Quote Originally Posted by Five-0 View Post
    Sounds like it is about time for a revolution. If you need some pointers/hints we are here for you.
    Start with a Tea Party. Excellent clip , Chris.
    SI VIS PACEM PARA BELLUM

    "It's a great life. You risk your skin catching killers and the juries turn them loose so they can come back and shoot at you again. If your honest , your poor your whole life. And , In the end , you wind up dying all alone on some dirty street. For what? For nothing. For a tin star."
    -Ex-Sheriff Martin Howe to Will Kane in "High Noon"

    Far from being a handicap to command, compassion is the measure of it. For unless one values the lives of his soldiers and is tormented by their ordeals , he is unfit to command.
    -General Omar Bradley, United States Army

    Renniger-Richards-Griswold-Owens

  4. #4
    Odd's Avatar
    Odd
    Odd is offline Cosmonaut Trainer
    Supporting Member Lvl 3
    Join Date
    10-08-08
    Posts
    2,056
    Rep Power
    2508664
    One of the few long YouTube videos that was well worth the time.

    Be glad when you hear "it can't happen here" for it's more hopeful than "how did we allow this to happen here?" Be also wary, for denial of threat is its invitation.

  5. #5
    kcnuke's Avatar
    kcnuke is offline Corporal
    Verified LEO
    Join Date
    06-02-07
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    522
    Rep Power
    117109
    As American citizens, we can learn alot from this video, since it would appear we are heading in that predicament now. Nobody should be forced to feel like a prisoner on your own property.
    Excellent video.

  6. #6
    MacLean's Avatar
    MacLean is offline O/R Gun mod
    Verified LEO
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    09-05-07
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    11,803
    Rep Power
    4604045
    Keep in mind the "Right to keep and bear arms" had its very origin in England.

    This is an older video, but it is a shame.
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


    I was looking for a saint who was a devil of a lover,
    but every girl I found was either one way or the other...



  7. #7
    Motorwaycop's Avatar
    Motorwaycop is offline Retired Plod
    Supporting Member Lvl 2
    Verified LEO
    Site Moderator
    Join Date
    09-28-06
    Location
    Ye Olde England
    Posts
    2,574
    Rep Power
    2450756
    Where to start.

    The banning of handguns had very little if anything to do with the particular demonstration shown and goes a long way to showing how the media can manipulate or slant things

    Handguns over a .22 caliber were banned as a result of the shooting of the schoolchildren in Dunblane, a massacre carried out by a man who held those firearms quite legally.
    However again nothing is ever that simple, it became evident that one of the police officers who had reviewed his fireams certificates was not happy about that individual and expressed those fears through the proper channels, however as is often the case his fears were not recognised and the man held onto his firearms.
    I would say it is pretty unusual in a rural area of the UK for an individual to require a handgun, any pest control ,which is essentialy why a firearm is held in those areas, can be carried out with a .22 rifle or shotgun both of which can still be quite legally held.
    Sport shooting is still big business in the countryside and the ban on some types of firearms has not affected this.
    pump action shotguns, semi automatic and automatic firearms were banned way back following another shooting spree by someone who again held those firearms quite legally.
    Contrary to the story it is still possible to have an interest in firearms and join clubs etc where there use is quite properly and legally maintained.

    The views on the proliferation of weapons offences in the UK. Yes firearms are more widely used by criminal elements. One of the factors for this is our more open and pourous border. the opening up of many eastern european countries has resulted in more firearms flooding the black market. however many of the guns have been converted from so called imitation firearms.

    The issue of body armour to all officers has more to do with knife crime than gun crime and again is realted more to a general breakdown in law and order than any link whatsoever to the banning of firearms. Our body armour is designed more to resist knife than bullet, because that is our greatest threat. Things are moving on slowly, taser is more widespread and I believe its issue will eventually spread to all officers, probably not in my service though. We do have more armed officers available than before and at the moment the balance is probably correct.
    However I never say never, and if the situation ever deteriorates to the level suggested in the fillm, I for one will be the first in the queue for a personal issue firearm. No problem with that at all. However it is simply not an issue for me at the moment, I am able to do my job effectively without one at the moment.

    I think I have said it before in other threads, our culture is very different, firearms are not a part of our every day lives, unless you have a farm, the loss of the right to have certain types of firearms has not meant any great loss to our social fabric or way of life.

    The demonstration featured was about the ban of "hunting with dogs". What the particular law was about is something to do more with our class system than anything else. Fox hunting is very much a preserve of the wealthy, it takes a alot of money to own horses, and traditionally the current labour govt was composed of folk from the working classes from urban areas. They saw hunting with dogs as cruel and more importantly, even though they won't admit it, as a way of getting back at the "toffs" by taking away one of their hobbies.

    The law has been, as anticipated, a spectacular failure and almost immpossible to enforce, as said by some of the contributors, police are thin on the ground in rural areas and as a consequence there is no one particulary to enforce the legislation. Its difficult to keeep up with a bloke on a horse cross country in a small diesel 2 wheel drive car.

    There is a bit more to the chap who shot and killed the 16 yr old committing a burglary.
    What isn't disclosed is that the the kid was shot in the back as he was running away, and that is why a jury probably convicted him. Our self defence laws rely on the use of "reasonable" force. It's a fairly subjective term and I would say his conviction shows how his own defence were unable to justify his level of force. There have been other cases where people who have killed burglars etc have not even ended up on trial as it was clear that what they did was justified in the circumstances.

    Police officers have always to justify the level of force used and we become expert at demonstrating why we did, what we did, even if on the surface what we did seems to some excessive.

    I think the clip also perfectly demonstartes how piecing together some bits of film and interview so it fits a particular audience is an art form in itself. It also shows why many who perform our role are very uncomfortable with the media.

    I apologise for the length of my reply, and stress that this is my interpretation of how I view many of the events alluded to in the report. As with many things there is often far more to the story. I truly don't think you can compare our two societies when it comes to firearms use. As with many things between our two nations we are so similar but so different.
    the sole advantage of power is that you can do more good.
    ( Baltasar Gracian )

  8. #8
    MacLean's Avatar
    MacLean is offline O/R Gun mod
    Verified LEO
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    09-05-07
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    11,803
    Rep Power
    4604045
    We appreciate your input!

    I did notice you said "require" and "properly" a couple of times when it came to this sort of weapon or that.

    We here recognize the right as "granted by our creator" without reference to what anyone thinks we require or what anyone thinks is proper.

    We got that idea from you actually. I'm sad to see it was lost there.
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


    I was looking for a saint who was a devil of a lover,
    but every girl I found was either one way or the other...



  9. #9
    Motorwaycop's Avatar
    Motorwaycop is offline Retired Plod
    Supporting Member Lvl 2
    Verified LEO
    Site Moderator
    Join Date
    09-28-06
    Location
    Ye Olde England
    Posts
    2,574
    Rep Power
    2450756
    Ever since I have been in the job(27yrs) anyone who owned a firearm (other than an air weapon) has had to have a certicate to hold that weapon. That's to say some sort of control or way of maintaining checks to see if that person is suitable to bear the responsibility of gun ownership.
    The granting of that right would be dependant on wether they had convictions, how they would keep the gun(security etc)
    There has to be some sort of check and balance as to wether or not you are suitable to possess a firearm.
    I assume it is not a "God given" right that anyone can possess, even in the US is it?
    I view it no differently to being accountable for how you drive a vehicle, the biggest killer here and probably in the US as well. Just as I would expect anyone in control of a vehicle to be properly trained and aware of the responsible way to use that potentially lethal weapon, so I would apply that to a firearm.
    It's not cars that kill, it's drivers.
    Something like that isn't it!
    the sole advantage of power is that you can do more good.
    ( Baltasar Gracian )

  10. #10
    MacLean's Avatar
    MacLean is offline O/R Gun mod
    Verified LEO
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    09-05-07
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    11,803
    Rep Power
    4604045
    Quote Originally Posted by Motorwaycop View Post
    I assume it is not a "God given" right that anyone can possess, even in the US is it?
    It is a right granted by your creator as spelled out in the United States Constitution and the Bill of Rights which amend it.

    Here, the due process is required to remove the right, which otherwise exists the day you are an adult citizen. A felon can't own a gun - because the due process of his conviction removed the right.

    Otherwise, it isn't a right - it would be a privilege - like driving.

    Anyhow, to answer your question - your assumption was incorrect

    The government does not grant rights, it can only remove them by due process. You should read our Constitution and Bill of Rights sometime - you might find it interesting. We got a lot of the ideas from you lot
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


    I was looking for a saint who was a devil of a lover,
    but every girl I found was either one way or the other...



  11. #11
    Motorwaycop's Avatar
    Motorwaycop is offline Retired Plod
    Supporting Member Lvl 2
    Verified LEO
    Site Moderator
    Join Date
    09-28-06
    Location
    Ye Olde England
    Posts
    2,574
    Rep Power
    2450756
    Quote Originally Posted by maclean View Post
    We got a lot of the ideas from you lot
    You've really got no hope then!!!
    the sole advantage of power is that you can do more good.
    ( Baltasar Gracian )

 

 

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •